Speed above all else

Jwallyr

Is there a consistent, significant part of MPQ that isn't predicated almost entirely on speed?

Regular story events- for best placement rewards, you must:
1) Schedule your life around the slice rollover times, which are all awful for me
2) Do your ramp/burn as close as possible to the beginning/end (respectively) of the 24 hour period, with as much speed as possible.

For Versus events- while your initial climb is less urgent, the well-known optimal strategies for placement in Versus include "shield hops" which require that you line up a few attractive opponents, wait until a good time for you to break your shield, clear those few opponents AS FAST AS POSSIBLE to prevent loss of points from being attacked yourself, and then re-shield.

Shield Sim- now that I can work my way slowly to 75 wins I'm not at all concerned with speed, but the process of actually playing the matches encourages me to pick a fast team anyway.

Deadpool Daily- most nodes restrict your character choice, so you can't truly play around with teams in most nodes. Rewards are minor (but not irrelevant).

I get that as long as "placement" is a thing in story mode, there must be some manner to separate the winners from the losers, but I feel like having this emphasis on speed "uber alles" in all but the most trivial parts of the game makes for a poor experience. It encourages me as a player to use what I consider to be a pretty braindead easy (but fast) team in America/Hood/(boosted character) + AP boosts to achieve fastest possible clears for placement purposes, instead of being able to try new and interesting builds, play around with fun combos, etc.

bluewolf

The game's two main interactions are:  Playing Match3 and trying to dominate, and building your roster by applying resources that are doled out in small amounts.  (or you purchase them)  You overcome the small resource drip only by playing lots of matches.

The only/best way to make that (playing lots of matches) palatable to the average mobile phone gamer is to make sure you win most or all of your matches.  And also make them go quickly, so you don't spend hours and hours to add 5 levels to a character.

I feel like you answer your own question when you point out that placement rewards require some way to separate players, and if speed/fast matches are the order of the day, then being faster is really the only thing you can use to separate people.

They have, in the past, tried making parts of the game hard.  People in general hated it, complained like crazy, and the developers decided it was better to make the maximum number of people not like the game vs create modes/events that used a challenge to separate players.

It would be nice if they had some more challenge-based game nodes, but people hate when they feel like they can't do everything.  Maybe eventually they will put that back in.

Sm0keyJ0e

While I'll agree competitive placement in PVE (t20 or better) involves join time optimization and going as quickly as possible, you basically said most other parts of the game do NOT revolve around speed. Versus? Shield hops, sure. You want to be fast. But again this is only for competitive placement. I would argue that t50 (or even t10-20 in PVP) can easily be achieved without doing anything "optimally" and you can achieve progression in both at whatever speed and with whatever teams you so choose.

All other aspects of the game (as you pointed out) don't involve racing. You also left off major events that are in normal rotation like Boss events, Shield training, etc. These can also be played leisurely.

I'd actually argue it's a small part of the game where speed is needed for the top rewards, not "speed above all else" for the entirety of it.

Straycat

Jwallyr said:

Is there a consistent, significant part of MPQ that isn't predicated almost entirely on speed?

Enjoyment? If you want to use your roster, use your roster.

In general, the longer the match, the more damage you take, so really speed is part of the core game almost as much as it is the meta game. Also, sometimes I don't feel like playing as much, so its nice to get my clears done faster.

Daredevil217

Speed is the most important aspect of a character in determining how I personally rank them.

But to answer the question...

All progression rewards whether it’s PVE, PVP, DPDQ, Gauntlet, Shield Training, Growth Industry, Boss events, or any other special event are NOT predicated on speed. 

The top placement rewards (maybe top 10%) are pretty much the only thing predicated on using your fastest characters. 

I remember the days when board control and health pack preservation were the most important things to me (this is likely where most the player base still falls). Patch/Loki and IM40/Cap were my teams back then. 

If you’re complaining about speed being the most important aspect of the game, or having to use the same characters, you are in that top 10% of players. Congrats. 

Jwallyr

Boss events are often hailed as a very nice change of pace due to the lack of a time component (other than the 8 hour windows within which you have to get your stuff done, but that's a lot easier to manage than a typical story event), but they are distinctly a minority of story events. Shield Training is quite limited if you don't have the required 4s at high enough levels and it has very limited rewards, even if you have them. I don't think you can consider Shield Training to be a "normal" part of the game with much in the way of rewards being available to non-high-end players. Gauntlet hasn't been run in forever (I've never actually played one, personally), and events like Growth Industry are exceedingly rare.

I addressed DPDQ already, as it both has minor (but not irrelevant) rewards and all but one node have severe restrictions on the breadth of your roster that can be employed; it's not really a mode that allows you to explore your roster.

At some point I'm going to have to actually break down the rewards that are available to a reasonably competitive player (by which I mean t50) from placement vs. progression, because it seems obvious to me that there's a sharp uptick in both the volume and quality of rewards from t50 up through t25 and t10. It's great to get a single 4star cover from progression in SCL7, but you can get 1 more for t10 and another cover for t5. Higher SCLs offer even more 4star covers from high placement, but never any more than a single 4star cover from progression.

Ultimately yeah, it comes down to the fact that I'm at a stage in the game where more 4star covers (and by extension CPs and HPs to buy pulls) is basically the only reward that allows me to progress my roster (AKA "increase my character options") in any significant way. The great majority of 4star rewards are gated behind placement, so I'm heavily incented to care about placement if I want to progress my roster. If there were 4star covers available from DPDQ (not counting the 2 CP, which is 1/10 of a classic pull) I would be more inclined to take it seriously.

I still get the impression that the most/best rewards are heavily gated behind placement, and therefore incent an aggressive, speed-based meta that sometimes gets old. Obviously it doesn't bother me enough not to play but it would be really nice if there was more "casual" (in terms of timing/urgency) game mode that wasn't Shield Sim.

Just my opinion, of course.

shardwick

Once pvp went to a hybrid system it made pvp a lot more enjoyable for me. With the old system I had to play in bursts. Reach a plateau, lose points, build points up again for a higher reward or two, drop back down. Constant yo-yo that made pvp an absolute chore. With hybrid even if I got online and saw that I lost 100+ pts I didn't care because I would just be a few wins away from the next reward and I could just relax, take my time and enjoy each match. Oh, and I could still compete for top placement rewards. The only element of speed was knocking out the seed nodes at the start as fast as possible and at the end I'd do a mad rush to my ideal point total and then shield out.

For pve it's a whole other beast because your two options are that you can play at your own relaxed pace and not get top placement rewards or play as fast as possible and as optimally as possible for a shot at top placement rewards. And honestly even at the lowest clearance levels playing fast and optimally for a new player and having a shot at top placement rewards is pretty unlikely because far more advanced players are playing for placement down there too and that's taking into account that you have all of the essential characters for an event. 

A move to a more progression focused pve that gets rid of time slots and has placement rewards built into progression would allow people to play as fast, or as slow, as they want and the only element of time would be that you have until the event ends to unlock everything. Wanna know something really crazy? People might even turn animations back on. Well, outside of events that have Daken anyway.

Richyyy

While others have pointed out how much of the game can be played without concentrating on speed, I agree with the basic premise that if you want to play in any way competitively, far too much of this game is predicated on playing as quickly as possible. It always seems a little ridiculous to me that this is something we're all supposed to be doing for enjoyment - and yet many of us are constantly looking for ways to get it over with as quickly as humanly possible.

I would love to see more parts of the game that require you to use your roster, rather than the same three or four strongest characters you have. I'd love to see more parts that actually offer some 'Puzzle', rather than being best attacked with brute force. Too much of the game encourages the same gameplay over and over again, and you shouldn't have to create your own entertaining aspects by making sub-optimal team choices.

Vins2

The 5* essential fights in scl9 arent about speed.  Thor Okoye could maybe hang against 515 goons but if theres a tile mover, or if its simulator, you want stuns and maybe a special tile remover.

Rod5

I agree that the top level rewards in both PvE and PvP are dependent on speed (the only exception being in PvP being where you can to a degree substitute heavy roster development). Surely those better rewards should go to those who have committed time and resources to make their roster/technique better?

But I really don’t agree that there aren’t rewards available to those who don’t play so competitively - you can take placement rewards in either...not the best but there are still ample to go round.

Daredevil217

Richyyy said:

I would love to see more parts of the game that require you to use your roster, rather than the same three or four strongest characters you have. I'd love to see more parts that actually offer some 'Puzzle', rather than being best attacked with brute force. Too much of the game encourages the same gameplay over and over again, and you shouldn't have to create your own entertaining aspects by making sub-optimal team choices.

This is where for me, hanging around in the 4* tier is great. While I still use my fastest teams for PVE and a smattering of tankiest, fastest, and best defensive for PVP, who those teams are composed of each week change with weekly boosts and I love finding the best combo I can for each event. 

Im currently in second (CL8) in PVE running 3* Gamora, 4* Grocket and 3* Thanos as my A-Team. Never thought I’d be running double 3* having all but Nebula and Emma champed. I can’t imagine what life is like for a 5* Thanos player. Insanely fast I’d imagine. 

jredd

PVE: since tapping was abolished, i find i've been hitting top 50 with the same effort as before. no need to play optimally. if you are going for top 10 absolutely though.
it's still too much time overall, and there are things they could do to save some ('repeat battle' button please!!!!) but you don't need to mind the time for the extra 4*

PVP: i reach 900 (1200 occasionally too) using 1 shield. when i finish. no need to shield hop if you have the right characters champed.

HoundofShadow

I think I get that you want more 4* covers at a casual pace or at a non-competitive pace, probably through progression rewards.

With the hybrid win-point system in versus, you can play casually to get the 4* cover.

I'm not sure how you can equate Shield Simulator with having to using a fast team. You have 30 days to hit 75 wins. I think you are, subconsciously, putting pressure on yourself to get the 75 wins quickly. 

You get 25CP every PvP, about 50cp from SCL 9 Pve, 20CP for every 10 days of DDQ.  That's about 3 to 4 4* covers.

If you were to narrow down getting 4* covers through progression rewards only, the covers gained are not a lot. In a month, it's 10 covers from PvP, another 8 from PvE, 1 from shield simulator.

However, if you were to look at getting 4* covers holistically, there are many other ways to get 4* covers (non placement):

1) bonus heroes
2) heroic or PvP specific tokens
3) Classic or LT
4) 3* feeders 
5) Heroes for Hires
6) purchase opened power using 120CP 
7)various vaults
8) bundle deals

Overtime, all these little things add up.

marshall

PvP is where the variety is for 4* over 5* since so many 5* have fallen victim to power creep. It's better than the Gambit era, but there's heaps of them that are instant hits above 700 points...

On PvE by far the most efficient tactic in 4* land is to grow your Grocket massively and then just run with Gamora.

Roland113

Vins2 said:

The 5* essential fights in scl9 arent about speed.  Thor Okoye could maybe hang against 515 goons but if theres a tile mover, or if its simulator, you want stuns and maybe a special tile remover.

Pffft, you ain't kiddin there.  I tried SCL9 and the 5* node was merely about survival.

Dormammu

When I play PvE I feel like I am playing speed chess - make a move as fast as possible and pop the clock, wait for my opponent to make their move, and repeat. And it's all passives, no skill whatsoever. Okoye + Medusa + Thanos (drop Thanos on essential nodes) and just match team-up tiles. Anything more than 25-30 minute clears and I lose.

In all other arenas of the game I take my time and use the rest of my roster. I enjoy the other arenas of the game a lot more than PvE.

Richyyy

Roland113 said:

Vins2 said:

The 5* essential fights in scl9 arent about speed.  Thor Okoye could maybe hang against 515 goons but if theres a tile mover, or if its simulator, you want stuns and maybe a special tile remover.

Pffft, you ain't kiddin there.  I tried SCL9 and the 5* node was merely about survival.

It really depends on the event. Thor/Okoye have had absolutely no trouble with any of the 5* nodes in Meet Rocket & Groot, for example. And that's the case in many of them - 'survival' is often most easily achieved through Okoye and her healing (and they obviously have the same damage threat as always).

That horrible Royal Family node with Bolt, Medusa and Lockjaw, on the other hand, might require a little more finesse (or at least cost you a health pack or two).

Phumade

Please let us know how that Loki revive ability does in the royal family node on scl9.  I have a feeling many people will get alot of experience with that power soon.

Jwallyr

HoundofShadow said:

I think I get that you want more 4* covers at a casual pace or at a non-competitive pace, probably through progression rewards.

With the hybrid win-point system in versus, you can play casually to get the 4* cover.

I'm not sure how you can equate Shield Simulator with having to using a fast team. You have 30 days to hit 75 wins. I think you are, subconsciously, putting pressure on yourself to get the 75 wins quickly.

I'm not saying that Shield Sim requires a fast team, but simply that a fast team is in and of itself beneficial, even in Shield Sim, because it makes the matches go faster, prevents your opponent from getting ability combos going, etc.

You get 25CP every PvP, about 50cp from SCL 9 Pve, 20CP for every 10 days of DDQ.  That's about 3 to 4 4* covers.

Nope, sure don't get 25CP from each PvP, not without shield hopping (see my original comments about that tactic being speed-dependent) or significant coordination. Not-casual friendly to get the final 15 CP progression reward.

If you were to narrow down getting 4* covers through progression rewards only, the covers gained are not a lot. In a month, it's 10 covers from PvP, another 8 from PvE, 1 from shield simulator.

Progression covers from pvp events require either stronger teams than realistic for a building 4star player, 40 wins (aka tons of time), or shield hopping. None of these are strongly casual-friendly options. Shield Simulator requires that you have all 3 characters at 209+, which is not a given for early-4star-tier players.

However, if you were to look at getting 4* covers holistically, there are many other ways to get 4* covers (non placement):

1) bonus heroes - Pretty rare, and (outside of very low chance in Heroic tokens) still requires tokens/CPs
2) heroic or PvP specific tokens (very low chance on Heroics and event-specific tokens)
3) Classic or LT - LTs are rare in 3star champs, and early 4star players aren't getting 4star champ rewards

Classic pulls require CPs which are more common, but to maximize these you want placement as well.
4) 3* feeders - Works great if you're after the minority of 4stars that get fed by 3s. No help on the majority of 4stars.
5) Heroes for Hires - Usually an awful value unless you reeeeeeeally need that one cover of that one specific character. Requires HPs- this is not a "source" of 4s, it's just another way to convert a currency (HPs/CPs) to 4s, and a bad one at that. HPs are also required for roster slots, with the ongoing introduction of new characters, and shields in PvP.
6) purchase opened power using 120CP - Well known to be a really bad value unless you're horribly desperate for that one chararacter.
7)various vaults - Usually very low odds to get a 4star, see above
8) bundle deals - I assume you're talking about real money bundles, which are rare and... require actual money to buy?

Overtime, all these little things add up.

Added my thoughts in bold above. You seem to make a number of assumptions about things being easily available to an early-4star-tier player that aren't, and treating multiple possible ways to buy 4star pulls as though they aren't in direct conflict with each other for the limited resources available.

End of the day, assuming that I get all 10 4star pvp covers and all 8 progression pve covers and the Shield training cover, that's probably something like 19 different covers in a tier that has almost 80 possible options (and growing every couple of weeks). If I'm lucky, a few of those covers might be for characters that I actively want, but in all likelihood it's just all glacial progress toward the entire tier as a whole, so I'm still heavily incented to push for placement if I want to make progress on a specific, known 4star.

dlegendary0ne

I think the speed question speaks more to how time restrictive it is to get top placement.  If I play S5, I'm locked into that schedule for the event duration and am given zero flexibility.  If I want to do other things, or am interrupted by real life, I automatically lose my competitive edge for the event, despite how capable my roster is.  The game literally penalizes you for real life.

This is especially a problem on the weekends when many people have other things to do.  Boss events sort of address this (especially Sinister Six).  Honestly, I'd rather boss events were run every weekend for that reason.  Either that, or re-work events in a way that people can play them competitively without all the time restrictions.

Moon Roach

This is true.  I am in slice 5, which ends at 6 pm for me (until the clocks change, anyway).  I have a work commitment this evening, so my final clear in Meet Rocket & Groot will have to be early, and my first clear of Hearts of Darkness may have to wait until tomorrow.  That's one real life event that will negatively affect my placement in two MPQ events.  And it's the Dazzler release event!

Curse you, real life.