Chromium, the Mutable - a preemptive clarification request

Brakkis

Before this Elder Dragon hits the Vault for purchase, would it be possible to clarify just how versatile his spell denial is? Because once more, wording matters.

His text reads as:
Can't have it's mana drained or raised. Whenever your opponent casts a Spell on this creature, destroy that spell, its effects do not trigger and this creature becomes 1/1 until end of turn.

It does not say a spell cast at Chromium, but on him. That wording allows for interpretation that any spell would be cancelled, including un-targeted spells such as Vona's Hunger, Plague Wind, River's Rebuke, Sleep, etc. Those spells aren't cast at any creature, but they do get cast on them by simply effecting them.

If he were to cancel out un-targeted spells, what happens if he's one of two or three creatures out? Does he prevent the spell from hitting everyone, or just himself?

In addition, will he only cancel out the first spell cast on him that turn, convert to a 1/1 and be removable by spells then, or does he just continue to deny spells permanently?

Clarity before money.

Brigby

@Brakkis I was able to do a bit of testing, and while I've only really tried a couple card examples, this is what I found.

When the opponent's Demonic Pact was on the board, it did successfully deal 2 damage to Chromium, and Chromium did not become a 1/1 until end of turn.

When the opponent had 4 Unholy Hungers with full mana in hand, all 4 of them were cast on Chromium, and Chromium simply became a 1/1 each time.

Hope that helps!

Brakkis

Brigby said:

@Brakkis I was able to do a bit of testing, and while I've only really tried a couple card examples, this is what I found.

When the opponent's Demonic Pact was on the board, it did successfully deal 2 damage to Chromium, and Chromium did not become a 1/1 until end of turn.

When the opponent had 4 Unholy Hungers with full mana in hand, all 4 of them were cast on Chromium, and Chromium simply became a 1/1 each time.

Hope that helps!

Thank you for the response Brigby. That does indeed answer at least the last part in that he will just shut down any targeted spell at him, even after converting to a 1/1. Basically a superior Glyph Keeper.

I wouldn't expect him to prevent damage or removal from supports such as Demonic Pact, The Eldest Reborn, In Bolas's Clutches, etc.

If you do happen to get a chance to test him further, let us know what happens when he's played against un-targeted spells.

khurram

Brigby said:

@Brakkis I was able to do a bit of testing, and while I've only really tried a couple card examples, this is what I found.

When the opponent's Demonic Pact was on the board, it did successfully deal 2 damage to Chromium, and Chromium did not become a 1/1 until end of turn.

When the opponent had 4 Unholy Hungers with full mana in hand, all 4 of them were cast on Chromium, and Chromium simply became a 1/1 each time.

Hope that helps!

Please test, if you can, against spells like plague wind, vona's hunger, urza's ruinous blast, river's rebuke, descend upon the sinful etc

wereotter

khurram said:

Brigby said:

@Brakkis I was able to do a bit of testing, and while I've only really tried a couple card examples, this is what I found.

When the opponent's Demonic Pact was on the board, it did successfully deal 2 damage to Chromium, and Chromium did not become a 1/1 until end of turn.

When the opponent had 4 Unholy Hungers with full mana in hand, all 4 of them were cast on Chromium, and Chromium simply became a 1/1 each time.

Hope that helps!

Please test, if you can, against spells like plague wind, vona's hunger, urza's ruinous blast, river's rebuke, descend upon the sinful etc

Urza's Ruinous Blast wouldn't effect him anyway, he's legendary, which makes him historic.

I woud expect based on what testing Brigsby has done so far is he evades targeted spells, but is unable to do the same for non-targeted. But I would be interested to know as well. Also I would wonder about Chandra's Ignition and Jaya's Immolating Inferno, even though I expect he won't be immune to those spells.

Laeuftbeidir

Brakkis said:

Brigby said:

@Brakkis I was able to do a bit of testing, and while I've only really tried a couple card examples, this is what I found.

When the opponent's Demonic Pact was on the board, it did successfully deal 2 damage to Chromium, and Chromium did not become a 1/1 until end of turn.

When the opponent had 4 Unholy Hungers with full mana in hand, all 4 of them were cast on Chromium, and Chromium simply became a 1/1 each time.

Hope that helps!

Thank you for the response Brigby. That does indeed answer at least the last part in that he will just shut down any targeted spell at him, even after converting to a 1/1. Basically a superior Glyph Keeper.

I wouldn't expect him to prevent damage or removal from supports such as Demonic Pact, The Eldest Reborn, In Bolas's Clutches, etc.

If you do happen to get a chance to test him further, let us know what happens when he's played against un-targeted spells.

How did that answer the question?

Demonic pact is a support, not an untargeted spell. But the way the be behaves, maybe everything has to be checked.

Were the four spells cast in the same turn? Because the "became a 1/1 each time" sounds like he wasn't a1/1 at every instance, thus implying the unholy hunger were cast in several turns. 

The interesting questions still are:

How does he behave when an untargeted spell is cast on him, particularly when he is not in the first slot? And how does he behave when he's already a 1/1 and gets targeted by a spell?

Bil

I don't think the four spells were cast on a single turn, if he becomes hexproof with the first one, you can't even target him after that.

Brakkis

Bil said:

I don't think the four spells were cast on a single turn, if he becomes hexproof with the first one, you can't even target him after that.

He doesn't become hexproof. The spell is destroyed and he converts to a 1/1 creature. The question is whether any spells cast after that occurs, in the same turn, will actually hit or if those are destroyed as well.

I interpreted Brigby's statement as all 4 Unholy Hungers were cast in one turn and it simply showed the animation for converting Chromium to a 1/1 each time.

Edit: Still waiting to see what the interaction is with him and untargeted spells.

Bil

My mistake sorry, the paper version twisted my mind.

James13

I would assume untargetted spells will work normally on him.  That's the whole benefit of untargetted.

Otherwise there would be next to no way to deal with him outside a vanishingly small number of supports.

HomeRn

The way I understand how his ability works, is that direct targeting, and ONLY direct targeting causes the ability to trigger.  So cards with the word "target creature" would trigger the ability.  Cards such as Vona's Hunger that target specific things would NOT trigger the ability (Vona's Hunger targets either your opponent's first or last two creatures, depending on Ascension status; therefore not a direct targeting).

Brakkis

It's fair to assume that untargeted spells will work on him currently but again, due to the wording used, they may not. This is why clarification is being asked. I'd love to have that before he's put up for sale.

Brigby

Brakkis said:

Bil said:

I don't think the four spells were cast on a single turn, if he becomes hexproof with the first one, you can't even target him after that.

He doesn't become hexproof. The spell is destroyed and he converts to a 1/1 creature. The question is whether any spells cast after that occurs, in the same turn, will actually hit or if those are destroyed as well.

I interpreted Brigby's statement as all 4 Unholy Hungers were cast in one turn and it simply showed the animation for converting Chromium to a 1/1 each time.

Edit: Still waiting to see what the interaction is with him and untargeted spells.

Yes. All 4 Unholy Hungers were cast in one turn, one after another. As for untargeted spells, I'll have to test those out later today when I have time.

Brakkis

Appreciate the further clarification for Chromium! Eagerly awaiting the untargeted testing.

Laeuftbeidir

Brigby said:

Brakkis said:

Bil said:

I don't think the four spells were cast on a single turn, if he becomes hexproof with the first one, you can't even target him after that.

He doesn't become hexproof. The spell is destroyed and he converts to a 1/1 creature. The question is whether any spells cast after that occurs, in the same turn, will actually hit or if those are destroyed as well.

I interpreted Brigby's statement as all 4 Unholy Hungers were cast in one turn and it simply showed the animation for converting Chromium to a 1/1 each time.

Edit: Still waiting to see what the interaction is with him and untargeted spells.

Yes. All 4 Unholy Hungers were cast in one turn, one after another. As for untargeted spells, I'll have to test those out later today when I have time.

That's good news! I'm looking forward  to the update!

That'll decide whether it's a better or worse hexproof, making the dragon mildly or very interesting.

Brigby

I had some technical difficulties, so I wasn't able to specifically test those previously mentioned spells/supports, but here are some cards I tested:

• Blightcaster: Chromium was reduced by -2/-2, bringing it down to 5/5
• Claustrophobia: Chromium was the first creature, and it remained Disabled
• Tainted Remedy: Triggering one of the opponent's traps caused Chromium to take 2 damage, bringing it down to 7/5

Based on these results, I would believe that Chromium is still susceptible to untargeted effects.

jtwood

You're the man, Brigby

BATMAN1

When will the exclusive dragons hit the vault @Brigby

Laeuftbeidir

Brigby said:

I had some technical difficulties, so I wasn't able to specifically test those previously mentioned spells/supports, but here are some cards I tested:

• Blightcaster: Chromium was reduced by -2/-2, bringing it down to 5/5
• Claustrophobia: Chromium was the first creature, and it remained Disabled
• Tainted Remedy: Triggering one of the opponent's traps caused Chromium to take 2 damage, bringing it down to 7/5

Based on these results, I would believe that Chromium is still susceptible to untargeted effects.

Thanks for testing furtherly, but the examples are supports that should hit him anyway. So that's working as expected.

We're questioning untargeted spells like cleansing nova, rivers rebuke, plague wind, vonas hunger, the great aurora, ambuscade etc,