What Planeswalker do you think deserves a new version?

Arsinik
Arsinik Posts: 14 Just Dropped In
in MtGPQ Suggestions & Feedback
I was going to make this a poll, but there's too many to list off that way. So this is in Suggestions because I think they should take our feedback into consideration while making the new versions of whichever PWs get a new version. So state your choice, and maybe a reason you believe that one deserves a new incarnation:
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Comments

  • Arsinik
    Arsinik Posts: 14 Just Dropped In
    And to kick things off:
    Arlinn Kord
    Because in Standard now... There's just not enough Werewolves to make her worth using, could make an awesome new big creature/burn combination with a new version.
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'd say Chandra needs a new walker.  I know we have way too many mono-red options now, but both of her versions here are kind of meh.

    It should be said, though, that MTGPQ will only have walkers that exist in paper.  So they don't really have much control over that.
  • Arsinik
    Arsinik Posts: 14 Just Dropped In
    Yeah, I know, but it is always fun to dream... Maybe I should edit this to "new version/update to abilities"?
  • Laeuftbeidir
    Laeuftbeidir Posts: 1,841 Chairperson of the Boards
    Arsinik said:
    Yeah, I know, but it is always fun to dream... Maybe I should edit this to "new version/update to abilities"?
    If that's your goal, I recommend you to use the forum search :there have been numerous suggestions in the past. They didn't do anything, but there are good ideas and arguments you could use
  • LordDorwin
    LordDorwin Posts: 78 Match Maker
    Of the basic 5, Chandra - Chandra 1 is too weak and Chandra 2 has far worse abilities, despite being older.

    Newer ones; Garruk, Wildspeaker is underwhelming with respect to abilities (to put it politely).  Arlinn Kord's problems have already been mentioned.

    Regarding Chandra and Garruk, tabletop Magic has several iterations of each that have not yet been used in MTGPQ(and some of each which are better than what exists and would not be too difficult to convert), so that objection is really moot(unless it was raised regarding the making of completely new, non-canon ones - in which case I agree - a firm no to that).
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    LordDorwin said:
    Of the basic 5, Chandra - Chandra 1 is too weak and Chandra 2 has far worse abilities, despite being older.

    Newer ones; Garruk, Wildspeaker is underwhelming with respect to abilities (to put it politely).  Arlinn Kord's problems have already been mentioned.

    Honestly, Garruk is still a solid walker, at least until Path of Discovery rotates out.  He was first created to be a Green walker whose deck focuses on things other than creatures (I'm sure you can find a 2.5 year old post here on the subject if you are so inclined), and I think he achieves that goal pretty well.

    As for Chandra, yeah she needs some work.  I always find it funny that back in the day she was the most OP walker (her first ability used to cost 3).  Nowadays with how high walker health is she's just useless.
  • LordDorwin
    LordDorwin Posts: 78 Match Maker
    edited December 2018
    Appreciate the input.  Most of my problem with Garruk is the unimaginative nature of the abilities.  The capacity to emit 3 increasingly powerful types of animal would be OK for a low-level green Planeswalker.  I would expect a bit more from a green/black one.

    The other problem is that the tokens stack because they are identical.  This renders them too prone to theft or expulsion (equivalent to killing) by blue or kill spells from black.

    IIRC, the paper Garruk Wildspeaker card could convert a land to a creature with haste for one turn, with no loss of mana from the result in that turn.  Something like that (convert support to creature for one shot damage, then revert) could have been interesting.

    If it has to be creature tokens, why not werewolves instead of wolves, and something like lifelink on the serpents, as an illustration of his dual black and green nature?

    [I'm not trying to rag on you in any way, if you have Garruk and have got him to work well, good job!  I suppose I'm just tired of being capable of defeating him in PvP without much effort.]

    By the way, do you know much about Saheeli Rai? - I saw some complaining about her being weak on this forum a while ago, but then there are people who complain about virtually anything here!   Anyone able to give some input, please do!
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    LordDorwin said:
    Appreciate the input.  Most of my problem with Garruk is the unimaginative nature of the abilities.  The capacity to emit 3 increasingly powerful types of animal would be OK for a low-level green Planeswalker.  I would expect a bit more from a green/black one.


    By the way, do you know much about Saheeli Rai? - I saw some complaining about her being weak on this forum a while ago, but then there are people who complain about virtually anything here!   Anyone able to give some input, please do!
    Uhh, Garruk is mono-Green here.  I think you're thinking of the wrong paper version.  Giving the Snakes deathtouch would be nice, but maybe a little too strong for a first ability (although the Beasts from his third should definitely have trample).

    As for Saheeli, she has amazing mana gains and great deckbuilding limits, but here abilities aren't super useful outside of the Kaladesh block (unless you have Weatherlight), since her ultimate only works with Vehicles.
    Either Bolas or (from what I've heard) Ral are better for most decks you want to make with UR, but Saheeli is still a solid option if you don't mind only using her first ability
  • LordDorwin
    LordDorwin Posts: 78 Match Maker
    edited December 2018
    You're right, here he is mono green.  Strange, that, I was convinced he was B/G, probably for the very reason you give.  The animals he creates should definitely have some sort of ability. As for which one - we can argue the point for the whole day and get nowhere.

    I had a good hard look at Saheeli - in retrospect I'm glad I didn't get her - the ability that first looked very good does specify a vehicle.  Agree about Kaladesh-dependent nature, and that means "don't use in Standard events, unless Chandra 1 is your only other option". 

    I have Ral - that one has the potential to be outstanding, provided you don't mind using a spell-heavy deck (his second ability depends on how many spells are in the graveyard and has no cap). He doesn't seem to be GRN dependent, so will be usable even after GRN has rotated out of Standard(unless PW power creep gets very bad).

    As I looked through the list of planeswalkers, it struck me that of the basic 5, Chandra has 2 versions.  Compare that to Liliana (4), Nissa(4), Gideon (3), and Jace(3).

    That alone argues for the introduction of another Chandra!


  • Laeuftbeidir
    Laeuftbeidir Posts: 1,841 Chairperson of the Boards
    Oh God, no, please! Just not more gatewatch walkers - we just got a fresh round of monos!
    No kidding, Jaya is a beast. New Sarkhan has a different approach of how to make zoo usable, that's at least interesting.

    The thing about saheeli : her insane mana gains (still the best overall) and her deck building options make her good. With the right vehicles, she's insane. You can build around her first or second.. But that's usually not very effective. Either ignore the abilities (add immortal sun, even playing field) or go for her ult. For legacy she's one of the strongest walkers, and good in standard - I don't think anyone would regret buying her. But ral was the right choice. His abilities make him way more versatile.

    The thing folks liked complaining about is, that her abilities used to be different, by the way.
  • LordDorwin
    LordDorwin Posts: 78 Match Maker
    Oh, I didn't catch that there was a change - I suppose she got nerfed.  I really wish they would not do that, as people don't buy PWs because they look cool, they get bought because of their abilities and mana gains.

    Hope Ral doesn't get "adjusted" - I can foresee people complaining because they got hit by his second ability.  Then again, the computer will probably be unable to play him properly in it's current state of dimwittedness!
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    LordDorwin said:
    Oh, I didn't catch that there was a change - I suppose she got nerfed.  I really wish they would not do that, as people don't buy PWs because they look cool, they get bought because of their abilities and mana gains.

    Hope Ral doesn't get "adjusted" - I can foresee people complaining because they got hit by his second ability.  Then again, the computer will probably be unable to play him properly in it's current state of dimwittedness!
    She was never changed after entering the vault.

    Saheeli was originally given as a prize to the top places in a special event (the event was a lot of fun, even though that was before ties were possible and the prebuilt Saheeli deck we had to use was garbage).

    When she eventually came out for release a few months later her abilities were completely changed, with her ultimate especially being much weaker than it was originally (it originally fetched the next 4 supports, not vehicles).  The devs claimed this was done because vehicles were originally some kind of support when they were designing them, but people complained a lot anyway.
  • wereotter
    wereotter Posts: 2,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    Mburn7 said:
    LordDorwin said:
    Oh, I didn't catch that there was a change - I suppose she got nerfed.  I really wish they would not do that, as people don't buy PWs because they look cool, they get bought because of their abilities and mana gains.

    Hope Ral doesn't get "adjusted" - I can foresee people complaining because they got hit by his second ability.  Then again, the computer will probably be unable to play him properly in it's current state of dimwittedness!
    She was never changed after entering the vault.

    Saheeli was originally given as a prize to the top places in a special event (the event was a lot of fun, even though that was before ties were possible and the prebuilt Saheeli deck we had to use was garbage).

    When she eventually came out for release a few months later her abilities were completely changed, with her ultimate especially being much weaker than it was originally (it originally fetched the next 4 supports, not vehicles).  The devs claimed this was done because vehicles were originally some kind of support when they were designing them, but people complained a lot anyway.
    Now that they've done more work with the game, I feel like Saheeli should get another revisal, and have that third ability be to fetch the next 4 artifacts. You could then still use her with vehicles if you want, but you could also run things like Powerstone Shard for big mana gains or Bloodletter Quill for instant filling of all the creatures in your hand. Vehicles have been scarce since leaving Kaladesh, so giving her some more viability would be good.
  • techmarine5
    techmarine5 Posts: 57 Match Maker
    I tend to run her with less regard to abilities for the aforementioned reasons. However, not only is she in two of the strongest colors, but she also has instant access to free creatures, which is enough to stall out some control decks.

    I would like to note here that I do not believe Planeswalker abilities to be extremely relevant, as it takes 6-7 turns for most of the useful tier 1 abilities. As for the later abilities, I find them nice once in a while, but it's rare enough that you can't design a deck around them. I have found this to be even more true the higher division you are, since those players generally have better cards.

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