Rotation speed discussion

Tilwin90

I've been talking lately with a few people and they seemed to be quite put off by the speed at which rotations occur, especially seeing how for newer players cards are very difficult to acquire due to the insane duplicate rate in drops, not to mention tiers do not keep formats in mind.

I know this has been discussed here and there, but I was thinking it would be a good idea to pull some opinions on the speed of rotations and how the planning of your investments into the game is affected by rotations.

A few elements I think would help a lot when discussing this would be:
- How long have you been playing MTGPQ?*
- What tier are you? (bronze, silver, gold, platinum)
- Are you in a coalition?
- Do you participate in events?
- Approximately how many rares (%) do you own from the new standard, M19 excluded? (ORI, IXN, RIX, DOM)
(I specifically avoided Free2Play input as I fear this would lead the discussion somewhere else, but if you want, you may as well state this too)

Feel free to give as much input as you feel comfortable though.
Oh, and I'd really love if we could avoid turning this into a "who's right and who's wrong" discussion. I'm quite convinced the opinions will be super diverse as the points of view on the topic are very different.

Froggy

Rotations happen frequent enough but we should be better informed about them.

I have been playing for almost 2 years now.

Platinum player. When I started, intentionally raced my mastery into platinum as I saw better rewards - and I don’t regret it.

I always play in a coalition. I am the leader of my team (AlwaysMTG) and sister coalition to MTGGoldfish. I assumed leadership of my current coalition recently (2 months ago) and before that I mostly played in GF.

I have participated in every single event this game has put out since I started playing - Innistrad. (Except for a couple of months during AKH when I was tied up dealing with real life things - let’s never forget that minor detail).

I own all rares in the game - except two of those you can only get through referrals! Hmmmm....

I voted as I did because while rotations might seem to be going at a mad rate for the moment, I think it was due time to catch up on rotatin out AKH and HOU. Both sets are broken powerful. I know in paper they did not rotate out, but in this game I don’t think it was wrong to do that (I’m looking at you cycling, HUF, Omni, etc.). True, they are finally fixing some of these cards (too late cycling!) and they could have done that instead of taking out the entire set. But I look at everything that is being done with the game and I really can’t complain much abaout the rotations at the moment. As long as they hold off now and don’t rotate Ixalan with the next release. Now that would be disappointing!

bk1234

Other...

- How long have you been playing MTGPQ? Since the first week. 

- What tier are you in? Platinum since fall 2016

- Are you in a coalition? Of course 

- Do you participate in events? 100% coalition (in various top 100 coalitons), 100% TG, 50% AX and TotP all PvE individual, almost never PvP individual. 

- Approximately how many rares (%) do you own from the new standard, M19 excluded? 144/151 (without crafting) 

The questions here are not fair or reflective of the issue at hand. There should be a question that correlates current sets to following paper— as we’ve been told over and over that was the priority and they are all caught up now. 

We aren’t lacking info of being surprised because we know the PQ set will follow paper within weeks, and that something will likely rotate out. 

The bigger question is how this will be handled in the future as we move from blocks to single sets. So far it has been half a block at a time, Will they keep the XLN block for Ravnica and rotate out the whole thing with Ravnica 2 comes out? How will it work with DOM?

However, I'm also not in the "they need to tell us everything" club. I feel as a business they have the right to make long term or last minute changes, and if something was changed at the last minute, we wouldn't respect that right and it could be alienating to the player base. 

Finally, I enjoy the challenge of sets rotating out. I played AWR this week without HOU cards -- I got a perfect score, built new decks and had fun. I've found with DOM I use HOU cards less and less -- and the new players I work with depend mostly on DOM and RIX cards so it doesn't matter for them. 

If anything, frequent rotation is another big step to level the playing field. 

DumasAG

Rotations are too fast and knowing too late when they will happen prevents me from planning my investments.

- How long have you been playing MTGPQ?* 
  Since the beginning. Had my account wiped after an update several months in, though, so my collection isn't _quite_ as complete as it could be as a FtP player for this long.

- What tier are you? (bronze, silver, gold, platinum)
  Platinum

- Are you in a coalition? 
  Yes. Joined one when they first released, but most of that coalition went inactive. A few of us started talking once chat was introduced, and we created a new one and moved. We've actually encountered similar migrations over time of multiple players joining our coalition at once, though I suppose that's unnecessary now that inactive leaders can be removed.

- Do you participate in events?
  Yes, usually every one of them.

- Approximately how many rares (%) do you own from the new standard, M19 excluded? (ORI, IXN, RIX, DOM)
  Rares - 66.5%
  Mythics - 44.9%
  Masterpieces - 14.3%

I'm right on the edge of thinking the rotation speed is fine. I've been playing with HOU for quite a while, and I'm pretty darned ready for it to rotate out. But then I think about the fact that I haven't been playing with Ixalan for very long at all, and that will be rotating in early-mid October (theoretically). That opinion could change by the time we get to October, of course. Maybe I'll be tired of the set (not sure how I could be more tired of Etali, though...)

I benefit, however, from the longevity of my play. The fact that I already own almost every walker means that I can safely spend a majority of crystals on new packs, which increases my collection more quickly. I'm also in platinum and regularly place well, also increasing the amount of resources I have to spend on cards and booster crafting. Additionally, I've only had to keep up with standard one set at a time. When HOU released, I only needed to focus on it. Same for every set since then. If a player joined around RIX, they'd need to focus on three sets at once, then deal with a new set in Dominaria with the impending rotation of a large portion of their collection. If I were a new player, trying to amass cards and walkers at the same time, and then a portion of my collection rotated at the speed we currently rotate, I'd be quite upset.

Mburn7

Rotations happen frequent enough but we should be better informed about them.

I'm a platinum player, been here since Zendikar (so like 2.5 years or so).  I participate in almost all non-ToTP events.

I've been in a coalition since the beginning, was one of the original Deadapult members (Gideon1 in the Slack chat, for those that remember) and am now in Extinction.

Not sure my exact rare percentage in standard, but I think its 70-80% (mythic count closer to 20-30%.  My luck is bad)

I had a really hard time choosing between options 2 and 4.  The biggest problem for the rotation schedule is that we don't find out about the timing of a new set until the week it is going to be released.  That makes planning crafting and pack buying very difficult to do.  I have hit the point where I just completely ignore the "next out" set in standard, but that isn't very good.

I like the standard rotation, since it forces new deck ideas and strategies constantly.  I just wish we could get a heads up when a new set is in the works (literally just a "we are now working on Set Y which will bump Set X out of standard a few months before release would be fine)

Laeuftbeidir

Rotations happen frequent enough but we should be better informed about them.

Two, platinum,yes, 90%,all

I just want them to speak with us. Tell us what they're about to do, so we can enjoy the game while properly planning with our resources.

They must've known that they'll do M19 long before they've told us. They also knew about standard rotation (the origins question) way before. The right hand doesn't seem to care what the left is doing, communication seems to be a one way street here. Meh.

The speed they're rotating is okay, could be a bit slower IMO

babar3355

Rotations happen frequent enough.

Hi my name is Babar, and I am a MTGPQ-aholic...

Anyway, I think there are a couple of important things to unpack/remember.

1.  MTGPQ is clearly bent on keeping up with paper magic.  And whether they expand the amount of sets in standard or not, they will eventually rotate one set out every time MTG has a new paper set.  I actually support this concept.

2.  The reason we are seeing such a rapid fire level of set rotations is because of the massive delay to the Ixalan release caused by the closing of Hibernium...  Ixalan hitting followed immediately by RIX was very abrupt.  But arguably, the extremely long time that AKH and HOU were in standard was the anomaly, not the norm.  The set that will really be in standard for a very short time is Ixalan.

3.  Origins should be the set of choice for any newer player as it is the only evergreen set.  I will also add, that the cards in Origins are sufficient to win any PvE match and most PvP challenges.

Anyway, I think they need to be wise about expanding game options.  If I am going to spend $30 for a card, there needs to be some good value for it after it rotates out of standard. They should implement some events that use Extended format as a starting point.

Blazer

Other...

I've been playing since February 2016, took a break during AMK so I don't have a lot from that set but came back during HOU and got most from that set.

Platinum in all from the beginning

Was in a top 50 coalition until I took a break now I've found my way into a top 100 casual one (we sometimes get top 50)

I play every event at least to progression and  play TG, AX, and TotP every day 

147/151 rares  

I voted Other because the time frame depends to me on how long it would take for them to release a relatively bug free set in addition to fixing all the current bug/continuity issues. I don't want any resources being put into a new set that will not function properly, I don't need new cards to chase after if the decks I have in mind won't work as described because the set doesn't function properly or as intended. I feel the schedule is fine as we know when WotC is releasing a new set and the MTGPQ release will happen soon after. I would love to see the planeswalker release schedule though. oh, and the elite pack rotation. oh, and the set rotation in the vault. oh, and the exclusive sale rotation.

BATMAN1

Rotations are too fast and knowing too late when they will happen prevents me from planning my investments.

It would be fine if we were given more opportunities to win rewards and release date at least a month ahead of time. This once a week big event schedule is Tiny kitty. We should have another event on Wednesday to help us enjoy the game more. Also TOTP should give you back at least the crystals you put in to play it. If we are gonna be given less time between sets we need the ability to earn more. 

DBJones

Rotations happen frequent enough but we should be better informed about them.

I've been playing around a year and a half. In Gold and SWWAgain (top ten in almost every event) since around the beginning of the year. I play all Standard events (AcrI around 50% of the time, that's an exception though). Legacy I play when I feel like it, TG almost always. 111/151 rares, though my percentage is likely to rise, RIX I have all but nine mythics and four masterpieces.

I think IXN is going to rotate out too soon, but once they match the paper rotation every set will have around a year in Standard, which seems like enough to me. I understand why they don't tell us when sets are coming out exactly, but I wish they'd tell us their goals, something like "If everything works out perfectly, we'd like to release x weeks after the paper release." The Elite Pack, Planeswalker, and sets available in Vault rotations all could be much better publicized, and really need some attention so that all sets/Planeswalkers rotate in within reasonable amounts of time. Tezzeret 1 is the only Planeswalker currently in the game I don't have, and he hasn't been available since the middle of the IXN/RIX Planeswalker rush.

DumasAG

Rotations are too fast and knowing too late when they will happen prevents me from planning my investments.

DBJones said:

I've been playing around a year and a half. In Gold and SWWAgain

Sorry, off topic. But that's a great coalition name. *high five*

Lethan

Rotations happen frequent enough but we should be better informed about them.

I've been playing since January and been in a coalition most of the time. I'm in the silver tier and play most events (unless life gets in the way).
From the ORI, IXN, RIX, and DOM sets, I got 53/151 of the rares and 24/93 of the mythic.

As a mostly F2P player I don't expect to get close to getting most of the cards. I don't mind the speed new sets get out. That being said, if it continues at the same rate, it would be nice to maybe have one more set in standard.

Brakkis

Rotations are too fast and should be slowed down.

Been playing since the week AKH was released in PQ. 

I made it to Platinum in about 2 months and never regretted it.

I have been in a Coalition since almost a month after starting, jumping around in D3NIED's groups until settling in D3NIED itself. I participate in every event I can unless outside factors dictate otherwise (As a Radiology med student, there are certainly outside factors).

As far as Rares, I have 134/151. Most of the ones I'm missing are from XLN with its garbage drop rates with only 6 being from DOM. As an aside, I am a F2P player and always will be. I will never, ever, spend money on a mobile game.

As far as I'm concerned, PQ should be sticking with the Paper rotation. I feel they're dropping sets too soon. They needed to balance cycling ages ago too. I won't claim we don't get enough of a notification about new sets and with a new set, we always know another set will be leaving rotation. That's never been an issue aside from the slight worry about Core and Origins for a time. The speed of rotation, the failure to fix game breaking bugs in a timely manner instead, and the sheer lack of Rune currency are this games issues in my opinion.

DumasAG

Rotations are too fast and knowing too late when they will happen prevents me from planning my investments.

Brakkis said:

I won't claim we don't get enough of a notification about new sets and with a new set, we always know another set will be leaving rotation. 

I've seen this pop up a few times, and I want to mention that we, the people on the forum, do get I think enough advance notice of new sets dropping. But as far as I can tell there has never been a notification in the application itself that M19 is coming. So while it's great we hear and can spread the world, why was there not a notification in the game's inbox three weeks ago that they would be releasing M19? Why was there not a notification last week that the update would be occurring this week, and to check the forum for more details?

If I'm wrong, and I missed the notification, I'm happy to own up to that. But as far as I can tell, the only reason my full coalition knows anything is coming this week is because I mentioned it in the chat to the rest of them. That isn't good communication.

James13

Rotations happen frequent enough.

- How long have you been playing MTGPQ?*

Started either at or slightly after BFZ release in app.

- What tier are you? (bronze, silver, gold, platinum)

Platinum

- Are you in a coalition?

Yes
 
- Do you participate in events?

Yes.  I tend to do all except mid-week Legacy PvP events (NoP, Terror, EC).

- Approximately how many rares (%) do you own from the new standard, M19 excluded?

100% of HOU,IXN,RIX.  35/41 Dominaria.  46/49 Origins.


Speed feels unusual to me given the history of long, long waits.  But judging by my in-game resources it's probably about right.

Firinmahlazer

Rotations happen frequent enough but we should be better informed about them.

Idk about should be  better informed but it sure would be nice if we had a little heads up. Right now I'm keeping tabs on paper releases and just trying to guess when we'll see it . I gambled on a premium pack recently thinking we were a ways out still on Core and then we got the pre release notes the next day . Had I known we were that close I definitely wouldn't have gotten it. 

When people inevitably ask about the upcoming set in the Q&A something more than "it's on the way!" would be great. 

wereotter

Rotations happen frequent enough but we should be better informed about them.

Let's get this part out of the way first....

- How long have you been playing MTGPQ?

   Since around the end of Shadows over Innistrad before Eldritch Moon was introduced, so about two years?

- What tier are you? (bronze, silver, gold, platinum)
  Platinum

- Are you in a coalition? 
  yes

- Do you participate in events?
  some. I don't let myself stress out over the game, and if I know certain events aren't fun for me, I don't play them.

- Approximately how many rares (%) do you own from the new standard, M19 excluded? (ORI, IXN, RIX, DOM)
(I specifically avoided Free2Play input as I fear this would lead the discussion somewhere else, but if you want, you may as well state this too)
  Rares 100% I make it a point to craft any missing rares from a block after it becomes craftable. Lacking many mythic rare cards.

To the point of the poll. I think the one-in one-out method of rotation works well enough. Sure for these two-set blocks it can mess up mechanical synergy, however, unless rotation becomes more unpredictable this will always be an issue since Dominaria is one set and the upcoming Guilds of Ravnica block is three sets. I think this would have been a larger impact if sets that heavily rely on each other were rotated separately, like Kaladesh and Aether Revolt, but Hour of Devastation cards still see play despite lacking Amonkhet.

I will say, however, that if rotation is going to continue as it seems with one-in one-out, then communication of this as the policy should be stated, and even if we don't know exact dates, planned expectations of even approximately when they intend to release new sets should be communicated (like they could say we expect to release Core 2019 in early August) that way people can plan for how they want to spend their resources.

IM_CARLOS

Rotations happen frequent enough but we should be better informed about them.

20 month 

Platinum since Rex event

coalition: yes

Play, every event.

Only missing one exclusive rare from KLD and 48 MP

I think rotations are on par with paper magic (now) and not a problem, but events are still a problem. Why NOP and so on over and over again? I don't need more events, but more different one would be fine. Why there a no more one of events like Rex-event (called: Breaking -something-)? 

I am a completionist, I stay a little longer, but newer player won't grind for 2000+ cards 40+ pw and millions of runes through heroic battles for years.

DBJones

Rotations happen frequent enough but we should be better informed about them.

They did imply one-in-one-out was the new standard in the RIX release notes: https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/71173/2-5-release-notes-3-13-18/p1
Specifically, Brigby said KLD would have rotated out when IXN released, but AER was so dependant on it that they waited until RIX came to rotate them both out together.
Also, while the next three paper sets are all set in Ravnica, I think they're meant to be more independent than previous sequential releases from the same plane. I don't follow paper very closely though.

FeralSkald

Rotations happen frequent enough.

Been playing since the start, have 100% of non masterpiece cards. The current rotation schedule typically puts me at a spot where I have all the cards, finish mastering them and wait a few weeks for a new set. I like where it is as I get plenty of play with new stuff and shortly after I get bored a new set is announced. I find the biggest anticipation for me is the month after release so I can booster craft the new set. I spend a ton of resources at the start then rebuild during the following months till new set is ready. It works rather well and I seem to end up at a similar resource level each set. 2.5 mil runes, 3kish yellows, 1600 purple and 450-500k orbs. Its held true for the last 2 sets.

I'm aware that I'm in a minority since I have the resources stockpiled to maximize my card gain and PW leveling. My coalition members are all over the map in terms of collections and resources so I would wager a guess that to many it's too fast. 

Bil

Rotations happen frequent enough but we should be better informed about them.

   Rotations happen frequent enough in most cases, but the releases beetween xln/rivals or dominaria/magic 2019 felt too short.
  Besides, with the release of walkers being that intense it has become really harder to save crystals if you plan to buy them all.
   Now that tabletop mtg has been caught up,  a release pattern would be more comfortable for players : a set every 3 or 3,5 months and a walker per month would fit quite well to the tabletop release schedule.