About Shield Training

ThaRoadWarrior

HoundofShadow said:

I think some of the problems are:

2) Since Emma is tanking 4/7 of the board, it means she's eating Carnage Attack tiles (126 damage per attack tile) almost every turn. As the turn goes longer and if Beast managed to create strike tiles, she could be eating close to 1k damage after that. By the time any of her colour is ready, she's almost half-dead.

I think this had to be the situation or we'd have all been like "what's the point of the match damage boost on Diamond Form if the others are tanking too much of the board?" like we had with Wiccan. Maybe putting Lockjaw on the team would have been better so he could have jumped in front to eat some of it when they'd match Carnage's friendly attack spam would have helped some?

Waddles_Pines

ThaRoadWarrior said:

HoundofShadow said:

I think some of the problems are:

2) Since Emma is tanking 4/7 of the board, it means she's eating Carnage Attack tiles (126 damage per attack tile) almost every turn. As the turn goes longer and if Beast managed to create strike tiles, she could be eating close to 1k damage after that. By the time any of her colour is ready, she's almost half-dead.

I think this had to be the situation or we'd have all been like "what's the point of the match damage boost on Diamond Form if the others are tanking too much of the board?" like we had with Wiccan. Maybe putting Lockjaw on the team would have been better so he could have jumped in front to eat some of it when they'd match Carnage's friendly attack spam would have helped some?

I still think that her passive should be, as long as a fortified countdown is on board, Emma turns to diamond and takes no damage.  It'd be like a souped up invisibility tile.  That, and she'd need some kind of nuke too 

DAZ0273

Waddles_Pines said:

ThaRoadWarrior said:

HoundofShadow said:

I think some of the problems are:

2) Since Emma is tanking 4/7 of the board, it means she's eating Carnage Attack tiles (126 damage per attack tile) almost every turn. As the turn goes longer and if Beast managed to create strike tiles, she could be eating close to 1k damage after that. By the time any of her colour is ready, she's almost half-dead.

I think this had to be the situation or we'd have all been like "what's the point of the match damage boost on Diamond Form if the others are tanking too much of the board?" like we had with Wiccan. Maybe putting Lockjaw on the team would have been better so he could have jumped in front to eat some of it when they'd match Carnage's friendly attack spam would have helped some?

I still think that her passive should be, as long as a fortified countdown is on board, Emma turns to diamond and takes no damage.  It'd be like a souped up invisibility tile.  That, and she'd need some kind of nuke too 

Or give her a special tile that has a set amount of damage that can be absorbed (like Elektra's Shadow Step but not a trap and just one tile that increases with rank) - so Emma can survive out front for a bit to cause match damage but then she gets fatigued sustaining her diamond form and reverts to normal form.

Sim Mayor

Waddles_Pines said:

I still think that her passive should be, as long as a fortified countdown is on board, Emma turns to diamond and takes no damage.  It'd be like a souped up invisibility tile.  That, and she'd need some kind of nuke too 

I don't know if ZERO damage is the right answer, for all the same reasons that I despise invisibility as a power. However, I think there needs to be a defensive component to her powers. I wonder how hard it would be to code something like damage reduction just from special tiles, since all of her powers are specials-based?

AXP_isme

DAZ0273 said:

<Snip>

Or give her a special tile that has a set amount of damage that can be absorbed (like Elektra's Shadow Step but not a trap and just one tile that increases with rank) - so Emma can survive out front for a bit to cause match damage but then she gets fatigued sustaining her diamond form and reverts to normal form.

Like a reverse version of valkyrie’s black. Put it on a long timer and fortify it so it lasts. While it’s on the board she remains in diamond form. If the countdown gets matched away or hits the damage criteria she transforms back to her normal form.
Also lower the cost. A lot. 

ThaRoadWarrior

Cloak & Dagger's black active is probably a decent example of how that could work, except acting on herself rather than a specific enemy. 

DAZ0273

AXP_isme said:

DAZ0273 said:

<Snip>

Or give her a special tile that has a set amount of damage that can be absorbed (like Elektra's Shadow Step but not a trap and just one tile that increases with rank) - so Emma can survive out front for a bit to cause match damage but then she gets fatigued sustaining her diamond form and reverts to normal form.

Like a reverse version of valkyrie’s black. Put it on a long timer and fortify it so it lasts. While it’s on the board she remains in diamond form. If the countdown gets matched away or hits the damage criteria she transforms back to her normal form.
Also lower the cost. A lot. 

Sounds good to me.

ThaRoadWarrior

Maybe she could full on transform into a new character with a second health pool and be 4* banner? 

DAZ0273

ThaRoadWarrior said:

Maybe she could full on transform into a new character with a second health pool and be 4* banner? 

I thought we were trying to make her better?

MushroomGenius808

I had posted this back in Sept of 2016 in one of those "who do you want to see" threads.

Emma Frost
Yellow - "Diamond Form" - High AP Cost, Impervious to attack for X moves (protected countdown tile)
Silver/TU - "Stepford Cuckoos" - AOE Attack, Stepford Cuckoos mentally attack all opponents (yes, she needs to gather TU tiles for her own use)
Blue - "Out of Your League" - Passive, % of success based on skill level, The White Queen laughs at your attack, controls your mind and redirects all damage back to a random opponent.

She would have been unique as the only player (pre Okoye sort of, and 4Cyc I guess) that had a personal use for gathering team up tiles.  She would spend the team up AP to power her own AOE unleashing the Cuckoos.

The passive blue would be RNG based, maybe at a 5/10/15/20/25% chance of success.  More covers = higher percentage of reflect.

I was super excited to see Emma show up as a 4*, but disappointed in her execution and artwork.  She was very underwhelming.

Tensuun

Diamonds are extremely hard, but also brittle, so it makes some sense to me that her Diamond Form is aggressive and not defensive.

Back on the subject of showcasing Emma's powers:
- I got the sense that Emma dealing match damage for as many colors as possible was done on purpose, because her Diamond Form only increases damage dealt by matches she makes. However, as others have mentioned, that means giving her only 4 covers in it was a somewhat questionable decision.
- As others have mentioned, Carnage represented a significant threat to Emma, both because Emma tanked 4/7 of the tile types, and because Carnage is "fast" while Emma is "slow". If the intent was to choose an enemy who creates special tiles on both teams, Elektra or a pair like Eddie Brock and Luke Cage probably would've worked better. Bonus: Luke Cage fortifies his own tiles, so Emma can double-dip on her purple's tile destruction and players can see how Emma's Diamond Form lasts even when the Fortified tiles are controlled by an enemy.
- Taking out Carnage therefore is a very high priority because he's so fast. Iron Spider is well-suited to this task, since he can Lock enemy attack tiles and Fortify friendly attack tiles.
- Iron Spider also makes a better tank overall, since he mitigates enemy power damage to himself, and if he does start taking too much damage, it's easier to switch to a color he doesn't tank.
- Therefore, the successful strategy is to match as many _green_ tiles as possible and cover the board in webs. Purple/yellow/black cascades that may occur as a result of green or blue matches are nice-to-have, but Iron Spider is carrying and Ant-Man is supporting. Where's Emma? She's deliberately avoiding contributing to the fight at all, because otherwise she might take a hit!

Vins2

Maybe there should be levels to her diamond form.  Casting her yellow brings out the offensive boosts, and then casting her other pink power gives her defensive boosts.  Both of those powers can be adjusted by the amount of fort tiles on the board.  Zero = no more diamond form.