How many crystals do you think Karn will cost?

FindingHeart8

Our first colorless planeswalker for crystals is coming soon, how much do you think he will cost in yellow crystals?  Feel free to explain your reasoning below

Mburn7

Tri-colored planeswalker cost

Personally, I think he should cost more than Kiora (so 1,000 or more), but since I though that for Bolas and he came out at 850, I assume Karn is going to be the same.  I would be seriously surprised to see anything else.

FindingHeart8

Somewhere between dual-colored and tri-colored planeswalker

I'm conflicted.

As indicated in the past, Karn was Octagon's planeswalker baby, but functionality wise it's a mono-colored walker in most standard events.  Players who purchased it have had plenty of time to reap their money's worth.

If there was ever a chance for a unique new planeswalker price (not 295, 650, or 850) this would be it.

Mburn7

Tri-colored planeswalker cost

FindingHeart8 said:

As indicated in the past, Karn was Octagon's planeswalker baby, but functionality wise it's a mono-colored walker in most standard events.  Players who purchased it have had plenty of time to reap their money's worth.

Karn is so much more than a mono colored walker (even if he does like acting like one a lot).  
And saying he should be discounted because of how long its taken to get him in the vault doesn't really make sense (since planeswalker costs that aren't Kiora's don't drop based on how long they have been out).

My (and others') estimate that he will cost 850 is based on the fact that he takes the same number of runes to level as Bolas, indicating that the game treats Karn as a tri-color in terms of pricing

FindingHeart8

Somewhere between dual-colored and tri-colored planeswalker

Mburn7 said:

FindingHeart8 said:

As indicated in the past, Karn was Octagon's planeswalker baby, but functionality wise it's a mono-colored walker in most standard events.  Players who purchased it have had plenty of time to reap their money's worth.

Karn is so much more than a mono colored walker (even if he does like acting like one a lot).  
And saying he should be discounted because of how long its taken to get him in the vault doesn't really make sense (since planeswalker costs that aren't Kiora's don't drop based on how long they have been out).

My (and others') estimate that he will cost 850 is based on the fact that he takes the same number of runes to level as Bolas, indicating that the game treats Karn as a tri-color in terms of pricing

I don't see Karn reaching his full potential outside often.  Is there any other mode he can use more than 1 color outside of training grounds?  I'm honestly curious, I've faced many lvl 60 Karns at this point, and I'm yet to face a single one that wasn't a pushover easy victory

I can see how his rune cost would be an argument for him being an 850 cost.  However his delayed release was much longer than Bolas's.  The parameters around him are unique, not sure how much of a baring that will have on his cost though

Mburn7

Tri-colored planeswalker cost

FindingHeart8 said:

Mburn7 said:

FindingHeart8 said:

As indicated in the past, Karn was Octagon's planeswalker baby, but functionality wise it's a mono-colored walker in most standard events.  Players who purchased it have had plenty of time to reap their money's worth.

Karn is so much more than a mono colored walker (even if he does like acting like one a lot).  
And saying he should be discounted because of how long its taken to get him in the vault doesn't really make sense (since planeswalker costs that aren't Kiora's don't drop based on how long they have been out).

My (and others') estimate that he will cost 850 is based on the fact that he takes the same number of runes to level as Bolas, indicating that the game treats Karn as a tri-color in terms of pricing

I don't see Karn reaching his full potential outside often.  Is there any other mode he can use more than 1 color outside of training grounds?  I'm honestly curious, I've faced many lvl 60 Karns at this point, and I'm yet to face a single one that wasn't a pushover easy victory

Remember, he also gets 5 colors in almost all PvE nodes (only exception is he gets 4 colors in the History PvE events since 1 is always excluded).  I know people who beat every single fight on BoFT with an almost perfect score using nothing but Karn decks, since he can literally do anything.

Also, remember that the AI is very very stupid, and usually doesn't use his first ability properly (or at all).
Trust me, when you get +7 on every color he is very powerful no matter what the deck is.

bk1234

Tri-colored planeswalker cost

I’ve found crystal cost and cost to level correlate. He was 323K runes to max, same as Bolas. 

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FindingHeart8

Somewhere between dual-colored and tri-colored planeswalker

bken1234 said:

I’ve found crystal cost and cost to level correlate. He was 323K runes to max, same as Bolas. 

1 example would make for the weakest correlation technically possible.  Not saying you'll be wrong, just saying there's a significant margin for error here

FindingHeart8

Somewhere between dual-colored and tri-colored planeswalker

Mburn7 said:

FindingHeart8 said:

Mburn7 said:

FindingHeart8 said:

As indicated in the past, Karn was Octagon's planeswalker baby, but functionality wise it's a mono-colored walker in most standard events.  Players who purchased it have had plenty of time to reap their money's worth.

Karn is so much more than a mono colored walker (even if he does like acting like one a lot).  
And saying he should be discounted because of how long its taken to get him in the vault doesn't really make sense (since planeswalker costs that aren't Kiora's don't drop based on how long they have been out).

My (and others') estimate that he will cost 850 is based on the fact that he takes the same number of runes to level as Bolas, indicating that the game treats Karn as a tri-color in terms of pricing

I don't see Karn reaching his full potential outside often.  Is there any other mode he can use more than 1 color outside of training grounds?  I'm honestly curious, I've faced many lvl 60 Karns at this point, and I'm yet to face a single one that wasn't a pushover easy victory

Remember, he also gets 5 colors in almost all PvE nodes (only exception is he gets 4 colors in the History PvE events since 1 is always excluded).  I know people who beat every single fight on BoFT with an almost perfect score using nothing but Karn decks, since he can literally do anything.

Also, remember that the AI is very very stupid, and usually doesn't use his first ability properly (or at all).
Trust me, when you get +7 on every color he is very powerful no matter what the deck is.

I'll have to take your word on it, since I don't own him yet.

He sounds really powerful late game, but fairly slow to start.

FindingHeart8

Somewhere between dual-colored and tri-colored planeswalker

bluemage said:

1.5k.     

good grief I hope not.  If that's the case, I'll wave politely at this opportunity as it passes me by.

Grixis197

Tri-colored planeswalker cost

Tri colour cost same as Bolas as it did cost 320k runes also to get him to lv60, but with all colours who knows the cost

bk1234

Tri-colored planeswalker cost

FindingHeart8 said:

bken1234 said:

I’ve found crystal cost and cost to level correlate. He was 323K runes to max, same as Bolas. 

1 example would make for the weakest correlation technically possible.  Not saying you'll be wrong, just saying there's a significant margin for error here

Well — You know me better than to think I would base by guess on one example. Not including Bolas we have 37 PWs —32 of which have crystal costs that correlate to leveling cost. (The 5 I am not including are the Origins ones) 

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Mark_Tedin

Tri-colored planeswalker cost

FindingHeart8 said:

I don't see Karn reaching his full potential outside often.  Is there any other mode he can use more than 1 color outside of training grounds?  I'm honestly curious, I've faced many lvl 60 Karns at this point, and I'm yet to face a single one that wasn't a pushover easy victory

I also have not lost against Karn. Very slow. I would buy karn for cycling deck, but the cycling will be (almost) banned from the game on the next update. Besides, he does not fill the colors in story mode ... I Think i'll wait for the new bolas.

khurram

850 crystals.

madwren

khurram said:

850 crystals.

Yeah, 850 sounds about right.

Mburn7

Tri-colored planeswalker cost

Mark_Tedin said:

FindingHeart8 said:

I don't see Karn reaching his full potential outside often.  Is there any other mode he can use more than 1 color outside of training grounds?  I'm honestly curious, I've faced many lvl 60 Karns at this point, and I'm yet to face a single one that wasn't a pushover easy victory

I also have not lost against Karn. Very slow. I would buy karn for cycling deck, but the cycling will be (almost) banned from the game on the next update. Besides, he does not fill the colors in story mode ... I Think i'll wait for the new bolas.

Using Karn for cycling is like using a Ferrari to go around the block for groceries.  Sure it'll get the job done just fine, but it is such a waste of potential.

Karn is the ultimate PvE powerhouse.  He can run any deck you could possibly think of.  He is a bit slow, but escalates quickly (since each use of his first ability increases his speed).  AI Karn is just bad at escalating.  Don't judge him based on that.

FindingHeart8

Somewhere between dual-colored and tri-colored planeswalker

Mburn7 said:

Mark_Tedin said:

FindingHeart8 said:

I don't see Karn reaching his full potential outside often.  Is there any other mode he can use more than 1 color outside of training grounds?  I'm honestly curious, I've faced many lvl 60 Karns at this point, and I'm yet to face a single one that wasn't a pushover easy victory

I also have not lost against Karn. Very slow. I would buy karn for cycling deck, but the cycling will be (almost) banned from the game on the next update. Besides, he does not fill the colors in story mode ... I Think i'll wait for the new bolas.

Using Karn for cycling is like using a Ferrari to go around the block for groceries.  Sure it'll get the job done just fine, but it is such a waste of potential.

Karn is the ultimate PvE powerhouse.  He can run any deck you could possibly think of.  He is a bit slow, but escalates quickly (since each use of his first ability increases his speed).  AI Karn is just bad at escalating.  Don't judge him based on that.

hahahaha love that example, yeah I got the impression he was a luxury item too

"AI is just bad at escalating?"

How so?  I could see this being circumstantially true, based on poor AI hand prioritization.  But Karn's ramp comes from his first ability right?  And the AI 90% of the time will use the planeswalker's first ability as a default.  Mix that in with the insane AI cascades and I'm struggling to see how the cause of Karn loosing be in poor escalation.

Mburn7

Tri-colored planeswalker cost

FindingHeart8 said:

Mburn7 said:

Mark_Tedin said:

FindingHeart8 said:

I don't see Karn reaching his full potential outside often.  Is there any other mode he can use more than 1 color outside of training grounds?  I'm honestly curious, I've faced many lvl 60 Karns at this point, and I'm yet to face a single one that wasn't a pushover easy victory

I also have not lost against Karn. Very slow. I would buy karn for cycling deck, but the cycling will be (almost) banned from the game on the next update. Besides, he does not fill the colors in story mode ... I Think i'll wait for the new bolas.

Using Karn for cycling is like using a Ferrari to go around the block for groceries.  Sure it'll get the job done just fine, but it is such a waste of potential.

Karn is the ultimate PvE powerhouse.  He can run any deck you could possibly think of.  He is a bit slow, but escalates quickly (since each use of his first ability increases his speed).  AI Karn is just bad at escalating.  Don't judge him based on that.

hahahaha love that example, yeah I got the impression he was a luxury item too

"AI is just bad at escalating?"

How so?  I could see this being circumstantially true, based on poor AI hand prioritization.  But Karn's ramp comes from his first ability right?  And the AI 90% of the time will use the planeswalker's first ability as a default.  Mix that in with the insane AI cascades and I'm struggling to see how the cause of Karn loosing be in poor escalation.

The problem is you tend to make a Karn deck relatively expensive (since you usually end up with +7 in all colors by the end), and that tends to clog your hand early game.  The AI can't exile cards to make room for his first, so it usually ends up just saving for his ult token.  Unless I'm running heavy discard or there was a stupidly long cascade, I rarely see AI Karn using his first more than twice in a match.  I usually drop it every 2-3 turns.

HarryMason

Tri-colored planeswalker cost

He's still not available for crystals? Wttk? That's just weird.