Goodbye hoarding, hello softcapping?

Daredevil217
Daredevil217 Posts: 3,939 Chairperson of the Boards
in MPQ General Discussion
I just want to say thank you again to the developers for the amazing change to stored covers. It really deserves its own announcement and more fanfare because for me, this is the biggest thing we’ve had since champing.

For those unaware, we can now:
- Bank covers even if we have less than 5 of a color
- Bank covers even if we have 13 of a cover
- Bank up to 50 2* covers
- Bank up to 100 3*, 4*, and 5* covers. 

They have effectively solved the iso crunch and the 6th cover problem in one super generous move that does not come at a cost to us. Many are “waiting for the other shoe to drop”, I just want to say thanks. 

I also want to use this thread to talk about how (if at all), it will change the landscape of the game for players. 

I definitely see it deterring hoarding but allowing an easier avenue to soft cap. 
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Comments

  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,939 Chairperson of the Boards

    Hoarding

    There are basically two reasons to hoard.

    1) to avoid a character. This mostly manifests itself in not wanting a poorly designed Latest Legend (like Wasp currently). But also certain vaults may not have a 4* you like, or you may feel the current crop of Latests are “beefy” enough so you save for the next crop. This form of hoarding I’d imagine will mostly remain in tact. 


    2) To avoid wasting resources. While people will still hoard due to lack of roster space, you no longer have to due to lack of iso, or because you might pull a 6th cover, or you don’t want a bad character to be your first 5* champ. Now you can bank their covers (no waste!) and wait to leap to the next tier with someone good!  


    I believe that overall hoarding will be much much less!

  • Dormammu
    Dormammu Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    You are correct @Daredevil217 there are now only two reasons to hoard. First, is a lack of roster slots and hoarding until you have an open slot (or enough HP to buy one) for fear of opening a new character not on roster. Second, it's still a well-proven avenue into 5-star land.

    I'm currently hoarding until there are three 5-stars in latest that tickle my fancy, or for a 5-star release vault that may look attractive.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    I abandoned hoarding when the save feature first came out. I still think it’s the right thing. I’ve got 1 more pending champ then I plan to start soft capping 5*s. 
  • ZeroKarma
    ZeroKarma Posts: 513 Critical Contributor
    Daredevil217 said:

    Soft-Capping


    The death blow to soft-capping was championing for sure. It was a brilliant move that meant if you held your characters back, you were really handicapping your roster by missing out on substantial rewards and your characters wouldn’t be as strong. 


    We all know that the 5* tier has its problems.  Most here are 5* players, but there are a few stubborn people like myself who just refuse to go to that tier and instead enjoy the 4* tier with its more balanced and varied gameplay. I know a few people who took the leap only because they were tired of selling off 5* covers. They hated the waste. With feeders being a thing I imagine more and more holdouts would make that jump


    However.... Now with this change, people can stay in any tier they want indefinitely. This definitely makes transitioning so much smoother.


    The death blow to soft-capping was the move away from roster-based scaling. In the past, you could maintain your roster at a lower level and gain an advantage in PvE. The enemies that you faced were all a lower level, and since the power curve for characters is not a straight line a 4* roster could actually have a strong competitive advantage over a 5* player. 

    There is currently no competitive advantage to be gained by soft-capping. Sure, you can save 100 5* covers and never use them. Not sure why you would want to, but to each their own. 
  • Hadronic
    Hadronic Posts: 338 Mover and Shaker
    This thread reminds me of Meet Rocket and Groot being run for the 5000th time. OP and softcapping are already well acquainted.
  • Straycat
    Straycat Posts: 963 Critical Contributor
    I think this is a great change obviously, but I don't think it will change how people play. I doubt many people would sit on a 14 cover character if they have iso to champ, unless they never were going to champ them before. It might be fun to leave a dupe 3* unchamped until you save enough covers to max them, but I don't think that's what you meant by softcapping.
  • DarthDeVo
    DarthDeVo Posts: 2,178 Chairperson of the Boards
    The only way it's gonna change my play style is by altering my champing/maxing priorities. I have a cover for my fully covered Blonde Widow on my vine and had resigned myself to the fact I would probably need to drag her all the way up from Level 70 to prevent wasting the cover. 

    As soon as this goes live you better believe that cover is being saved so I can focus on maxing my IW Cap and Thano5. Also will be saving covers for 3* Beast. Maybe some 2*s as well, we'll see.
  • Rod5
    Rod5 Posts: 587 Critical Contributor
    edited July 2018
    I think there is some confusion between the terms “softcapping” and “levelling”. Softcapping implies a benefit from levelling only to a certain point below max to gain an advantage over those with bigger rosters, following the move to CL-based scaling there is now no benefit in the game from doing that.
  • Tony_Foot
    Tony_Foot Posts: 1,791 Chairperson of the Boards
    If this feature had come about when I was opening my first hoard I would have left my 5*s at 255 and 13 covers and saved all the rest. I was pushed into 5* a little earlier than I perhaps would have liked because of gambit and breaking my first hoard and not wanting to waste covers.

    With this feature I could have waited until I had 10 or so 5* ready to go and then started playing with a least a fraction of the diversity I had in 4* land.
  • sirwookieechris
    sirwookieechris Posts: 131 Tile Toppler
    Tony_Foot said:
    If this feature had come about when I was opening my first hoard I would have left my 5*s at 255 and 13 covers and saved all the rest. I was pushed into 5* a little earlier than I perhaps would have liked because of gambit and breaking my first hoard and not wanting to waste covers.

    With this feature I could have waited until I had 10 or so 5* ready to go and then started playing with a least a fraction of the diversity I had in 4* land.
    This is what I plan on doing. I cracked a bit of my hoard already on classics and already got Thanos up to 13. This would have sucked before because I don’t want to waste 5* covers but don’t want to jump into 5* land with a single 5*. Doesn’t help that the next two most covered 5* are GG and BW.

    Save my iso, wait until I am ready, and make the plunge later without losing anything.
  • Pongie
    Pongie Posts: 1,411 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2018
    ZeroKarma said:
    Daredevil217 said:

    Soft-Capping


    The death blow to soft-capping was championing for sure. It was a brilliant move that meant if you held your characters back, you were really handicapping your roster by missing out on substantial rewards and your characters wouldn’t be as strong. 


    We all know that the 5* tier has its problems.  Most here are 5* players, but there are a few stubborn people like myself who just refuse to go to that tier and instead enjoy the 4* tier with its more balanced and varied gameplay. I know a few people who took the leap only because they were tired of selling off 5* covers. They hated the waste. With feeders being a thing I imagine more and more holdouts would make that jump


    However.... Now with this change, people can stay in any tier they want indefinitely. This definitely makes transitioning so much smoother.


    The death blow to soft-capping was the move away from roster-based scaling. In the past, you could maintain your roster at a lower level and gain an advantage in PvE. The enemies that you faced were all a lower level, and since the power curve for characters is not a straight line a 4* roster could actually have a strong competitive advantage over a 5* player. 

    There is currently no competitive advantage to be gained by soft-capping. Sure, you can save 100 5* covers and never use them. Not sure why you would want to, but to each their own. 
    Been trying to think of a reason for soft capping... nope there really no point in doing so anymore

    broll said:
    I abandoned hoarding when the save feature first came out. I still think it’s the right thing. I’ve got 1 more pending champ then I plan to start soft capping 5*s. 
    Tempted to open my hoard on classics too (7.3k cp, about 369 pulls). I have half the 5*s championed and the other half ranging from 1-3 covers. Only a couple are decent at 6-10 covers. Though the only two that I would like are Thor and Dr Strange. 
  • Wil88
    Wil88 Posts: 159 Tile Toppler
    Softcapping, no. But now I find a compelling reason to spend my ISO levelling characters.
    I have not made the leap to 5* land and I have several 11 or 12 covered 5* characters sitting at lvl 255.
    Levelling those characters up to 300 or so will give me several more characters to play without getting to 5* champion land. 
    More diversity=more fun. 
    Thanks for this change devs!
  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,111 Chairperson of the Boards
    Daredevil217 said:

    Soft-Capping


    The death blow to soft-capping was championing for sure. It was a brilliant move that meant if you held your characters back, you were really handicapping your roster by missing out on substantial rewards and your characters wouldn’t be as strong. 


    We all know that the 5* tier has its problems.  Most here are 5* players, but there are a few stubborn people like myself who just refuse to go to that tier and instead enjoy the 4* tier with its more balanced and varied gameplay. I know a few people who took the leap only because they were tired of selling off 5* covers. They hated the waste. With feeders being a thing I imagine more and more holdouts would make that jump


    However.... Now with this change, people can stay in any tier they want indefinitely. This definitely makes transitioning so much smoother.


    For example you can make sure every single 3* is done before leaping into the 4 tier if you so choose. And whenever you’re ready to champ 4s you will instantly apply all the covers you collected along the way as champ levels.


    Or you could spend all your iso on 4s, and then go back and champ 3s once you’ve gotten 113 covers. 


    Basically this allows us so much flexibility to play, build and enjoy our rosters how we want and I for one can’t thank them enough. I know for me and many others though, this will mean a sharp increase in soft-capping as the penalty for “slumming it” isn’t as high (no more waste). But who cares as long as people are enjoying!?


    Also on a personal note, I will be more apt to open classics now as I don’t have to worry about a 14th Thor, Jessica, DD, etc. that I might have to toss and might even be able to finish some of my classics lingering at 10-12 covers!

    Not everything are roses here.  Transitioning to 4* tier is not easy because of dilution, which keeps getting worse.  
  • DarthDeVo
    DarthDeVo Posts: 2,178 Chairperson of the Boards
    Pongie said:
    ZeroKarma said:
    Daredevil217 said:

    Soft-Capping


    The death blow to soft-capping was championing for sure. It was a brilliant move that meant if you held your characters back, you were really handicapping your roster by missing out on substantial rewards and your characters wouldn’t be as strong. 


    We all know that the 5* tier has its problems.  Most here are 5* players, but there are a few stubborn people like myself who just refuse to go to that tier and instead enjoy the 4* tier with its more balanced and varied gameplay. I know a few people who took the leap only because they were tired of selling off 5* covers. They hated the waste. With feeders being a thing I imagine more and more holdouts would make that jump


    However.... Now with this change, people can stay in any tier they want indefinitely. This definitely makes transitioning so much smoother.


    The death blow to soft-capping was the move away from roster-based scaling. In the past, you could maintain your roster at a lower level and gain an advantage in PvE. The enemies that you faced were all a lower level, and since the power curve for characters is not a straight line a 4* roster could actually have a strong competitive advantage over a 5* player. 

    There is currently no competitive advantage to be gained by soft-capping. Sure, you can save 100 5* covers and never use them. Not sure why you would want to, but to each their own. 
    Been trying to think of a reason for soft capping... nope there really no point in doing so anymore

    broll said:
    I abandoned hoarding when the save feature first came out. I still think it’s the right thing. I’ve got 1 more pending champ then I plan to start soft capping 5*s. 
    Tempted to open my hoard on classics too (7.3k cp, about 369 pulls). I have half the 5*s championed and the other half ranging from 1-3 covers. Only a couple are decent at 6-10 covers. Though the only two that I would like are Thor and Dr Strange. 
    You should consider waiting for the next 5* release store. There's strong speculation that it will be Loki. If that's the case, I would put pretty good odds on Thor being one of the 5*s offered in that store. That's just my guess, which is based on speculation though. 

    Now, the store is 25 CP per pull instead of 20, so you'll have fewer pulls overall; but your pulls would be more focused, especially if Thor is one of the three. 

    We should know more one way or the other in less than two weeks. Wouldn't hurt to wait. And if I'm wrong, go pull crazy in Classics then. 
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,939 Chairperson of the Boards

    Pongie said:

    Been trying to think of a reason for soft capping... nope there really no point in doing so anymore

    That’s weird to me, only because the two posts before you were people with valid reasons for softcapping. 

    One guy said if this was around before he’d of kept his 5’s at 255. I think others are more apt to do the same as well now that it IS an option. 

    As as far as “reasons” go, some people like having more character options. Once you transition to the 5* tier, you are playing the same 2-4 characters over and over with few exceptions. Some like the team building aspect of the game and the 4* tier mixing with maxed threes and under-leveled 5s allows for the most versatility. While you can still play who you want in PVE, MMR makes that not really an option in PVP sadly. 

    Also, some might softcap as a means of waiting until they have the “right” mix of characters to make the leap. Others might choose to finish out their current tier before advancing. 

    Others might not want to play/spend the amount it’d take to keep up with the 5* meta. 

    I mean I get that by and large, it’s better to level up 5s and breeze through PVE, but there are reasons people would choose to not to. All depends on what each individual person wants. And I love that we have more options for several different types of people. 
  • jamesh
    jamesh Posts: 1,600 Chairperson of the Boards
    Rod5 said:
    I think there is some confusion between the terms “softcapping” and “levelling”. Softcapping implies a benefit from levelling only to a certain point below max to gain an advantage over those with bigger rosters, following the move to CL-based scaling there is now no benefit in the game from doing that.
    Some people have also used the term to refer to people who choose to level up characters other than their 5* characters.

    That argument always felt a bit weird, since if you don't have an iso surplus, then you need to make decisions about where to allocate it.  And given the rarity of 5* covers and the decent champion rewards you get for the more common 4* characters, it doesn't seem that bad an idea to focus on the more diverse tier.
  • ZeroKarma
    ZeroKarma Posts: 513 Critical Contributor
    It really depends on what you want out of the game. As mentioned, above the negative connotation of soft-capping comes from PvE players not leveling their characters so that they would have a scaling advantage in PvE. That’s it. Obviously with a 5E and the lack of roster-based scaling, softcapping is a decision made to stay in a lower tier and avoid 5*.

    The only competitive advantage now is the ability to play PvP and hit 75 wins without facing higher level teams. PvE it’s a major hindrance
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,391 Chairperson of the Boards
    It isn’t properly soft capping, but now that I’m not racing to save covers I’m going to try and get my entire 4* roster to 209 rather than continue champing them one at a time. It’s 150k iso to go from lvl 70 -> 209, compared to 370~ish, and then I’ll go back and keep champing.
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,758 Chairperson of the Boards
    The only tokens I hoard are LT.  I pull them every 6 weeks to cover all the 5* especially with lumbercap atill in packs.  I have him champed and have been fairly underwhelmed by him so once he is gone I will pull again.  I personally try and champ all the new 5*.  I will probably keep hoarding for 6 weeks at a time as it feels like I have better luck with 5* when I pull in bulk compared to when I pull when I can.  I am sure it is all in my mind and I would have the same draw rate anyway, but I never said I was sane with my reasoning. 

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