Lazy Power Creep : Don't Rebalance their Powers, but Fix 5* Health and Match Damage

ZeroKarma
ZeroKarma Posts: 513 Critical Contributor
edited July 2018 in MPQ General Discussion
There is a similar thread that was brought out to buff old 5* to make them more viable in today's meta. I don't know that an overall buff for all characters is necessary since it would require a lot of work and the benefit of that from a sales perspective would be pretty small, but the developers should at least consider an update of health and match damage. At one point we did do a full rebalance of health in the 3* tier to get it back in order and something like that needs to happen at some point in the 5* tier. (The 4* tier is not skewed for whatever reason)

Example: I opened a classic token and got a Green Goblin!!! I actually like the character. He's got a fun mix of synergistic abilities that are strong but not game-breaking and require some strategy to maximize. I decided to compare him at level 465 to my 456 Okoye.

Health: 

Green Goblin at 465: 48,857
Okoye at 456: 62,080

Okoye has 25% more health than Green Goblin at 9 levels lower, but no big deal, right? The 4* and 5* tiers have a ton of variation in health. Okoye is obviously a tank based on the movies where she's bulletproof thanks to a special super-suit. 

Wait? She isn't? That's Black Panther? Phew....

Black Panther at 475: 61,929
Okoye at 456: 62,080

This is really not a huge deal. There is a large range of health in all tiers and it rarely makes a ton of sense except for Hulk and IM and Thor. In the 4* tier and the 3* tier there is parity in match damage, however. A 370 Captain Marvel punches as hard as a 370 Cyclops. How does this look with Goblin and Okoye in the 5* tier? 

Match Damage #1, #2 and #3

Green Goblin at 465: 633, 562 and 492
Okoye at 456: 775, 689, 603

Obviously, Okoye has incredible super strength that allows her to go toe-to-toe with the strongest characters in the MCU. She just casually knocks the Hulk out of the way when he gets out of line. After all, she has use of the Power Cosmic from Galactus! 

Wait, she doesn't? That's the Silver Surfer? 

Silver Surfer at 481: 744, 661, 578
Okoye at 456: 775, 689, 603

This really makes no sense to me. The 4* tier power creep is obvious, but it's through power design, not through match damage. Sure, it's nice that the weak old 5* don't tank colors and can hide in the back. 

The health and match damage changes need to be addressed. They are, to me, lazy power creep where we can't seem to find good and balanced ways to make characters stronger through active and passive powers. It's a small quality of life change to fix variation that shouldn't exist in the first place.  

Comments

  • Straycat
    Straycat Posts: 963 Critical Contributor
    I don't think its fair to pick on Okoye for her match damage and health. In her case, I think she has high match damage to balance her passive. Part of her kit involves her staying out front, so I think it makes sense in the game that she would have high match damage.
    But otherwise I agree
  • jackstar0
    jackstar0 Posts: 1,280 Chairperson of the Boards
    Agreed on all fronts. An adjustment to the 5* tier for Match Damage and Health would be very welcome.
  • Jonny1Punch
    Jonny1Punch Posts: 434 Mover and Shaker
    BlackBoltRocks said:
    I’ve been wondering about this too. Particularly as I have both Surfer and Okoye and lv452, and both are true healers. Surfer has 48208 health, Okoye has 60195. Shouldnt it be the other way around? And based on their flavour text, Surfer glows with cosmic energy to remove all imperfections. Hence a true heal for him is fine. But Okoye dutifully protects her allies. That sounds more like a burst heal to me, akin to Kamala Khan.

    More on the topic of match damage, ZeroKarma has already provided some numbers. At lv452, here are Surfer’s and Okoye’s numbers for a more level comparison:

    Surfer: 595, 529, 463
    Okoye: 751, 668, 584

    Okoye does 26% more damage than Surfer in their respective strongest colours. Oh, and Okoye’s Black passive at 5 covers effectively gives her a TU tile strength of 718. Meanwhile, Surfer clocks in a measly 299.

    I know power levels in this game don’t follow the generally accepted comic power levels of characters, but this disparity is still somewhat ridiculous. The only reason for said disparity is that Surfer was released in Sep 2015, and Okoye was released in May 2018.
    I couldn’t agree with this more. I am not just saying this out of bias as Silver Surfer has been my favorite since I was a little kid...... but he’s one of the most powerful, god-like cosmic killing machines in the marvel universe. Truly one of the top 10 overall most-powerful characters in marvel & that should be reflected in the game. He should be way more dominant then he is, not low tier & barely able to sustain fights against new low leveled 5*.

    To see him outclassed by so many other 5* especially many of them being human or weak mutant variants is extremely inappropriate.  He is definitely in need of a power & match damage  buff as well as a health boost. Okoye has 12,000 higher starting health over SS ( both are true heal). Babinro had some great ideas in another thread about some buffs including black vortex being an AOE when hitting 0. #BuffSurfer
  • thedarkphoenix
    thedarkphoenix Posts: 557 Critical Contributor
    Gambit isn't even nerfed yet and we got "buff" these character threads lol.

    Anyway older characters are bad the power creep has been in place since around hawkeye. There's nothing wrong with it, it happens in all games. But older characters match damage and powers do need to be looked at or adjusted.

    That can happen with character re balances if that ever starts again...
  • spectator
    spectator Posts: 395 Mover and Shaker
    Next 5 star release will be “silver surfer - herald of galactus”
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    There is more than 3 classes. 

    Trash-Doc Ock, Wasp and Banner 
    Time has passed you by- SS, PHX, OML, GG
    meh-too many to list 
    current superstars: JJ, Okoye, Thor
    God level: Gambit (before and after 1st nerf) 

    Not sure where Gambit will lie in here now. Need to see him after his nerf 2nd nerf. 
  • dr tinykittylove
    dr tinykittylove Posts: 1,459 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2018
    The rockett said:
    There is more than 3 classes. 

    Trash-Doc Ock, Wasp and Banner 
    Time has passed you by- SS, PHX, OML, GG
    meh-too many to list 
    current superstars: JJ, Okoye, Thor
    God level: Gambit (before and after 1st nerf) 

    Not sure where Gambit will lie in here now. Need to see him after his nerf 2nd nerf. 
    I'd say Wasp is in a category all her own - match damage+tank as 5* Essential... Because she does nothing else. 

    Periodically I bring Ock for his black and blue outlet if I don't feel like playing Arghangel or Surfer. 
  • pheregas
    pheregas Posts: 1,721 Chairperson of the Boards


    Periodically I bring Ock for his black and blue outlet if I don't feel like playing Arghangel or Surfer. 
    I hope you typed that intentionally, because that is the best name ever for Archangel.
  • dr tinykittylove
    dr tinykittylove Posts: 1,459 Chairperson of the Boards
    pheregas said:


    Periodically I bring Ock for his black and blue outlet if I don't feel like playing Arghangel or Surfer. 
    I hope you typed that intentionally, because that is the best name ever for Archangel.
    I've been calling him arghangel since shortly after his release. Probably undeserved but I thought it was funny given how much people were moaning about him.  :) 
  • Basepuzzler
    Basepuzzler Posts: 180 Tile Toppler
    If they insist on power creep they don’t have to being Phoenix all the way to okoye levels.  Give all the old 5’s match damage around the GR or SL level.  And then in 6 months do it again.  The new 5’s can be strongest but the oldest don’t have to be left in the dust forever.
  • Jonny1Punch
    Jonny1Punch Posts: 434 Mover and Shaker
    Basepuzzler said:
    If they insist on power creep they don’t have to being Phoenix all the way to okoye levels.  Give all the old 5’s match damage around the GR or SL level.  And then in 6 months do it again.  The new 5’s can be strongest but the oldest don’t have to be left in the dust forever.
    I totally & respectfully disagree with this. A 5* power/HP/match damage or overall usefulness should not be dependent on whether it’s an “ old vs new” release. The date of release should dictate nothing in regards to a characters value,power & overall usefulness. Yet sadly it currently does...

    5* are still incredibly hard to acquire/cover especially the older classics . Spending money, time & resources chasing current 5* is just as costly as when we were chasing the older ones years ago. So when I pull a green goblin 5* cover I should be excited as he’s one of my favorites ..... instead all I can think about is how at level 491 my GG has the same health as a level 451 okoye. How he is not sustainable in pvp against most 5s significantly lower leveled then him. 40+ 5* levels is a huge difference and the fact that he’s been so devalued with the monstrous power creep is simply cheap and unfair.

    My personal opinion is the 5* tier would be so much more diverse and entertaining if it was more dependent on the level you have your 5* at and not the “ shiny new toy vs old outdated toy “ . I think if we bring everyone’s match damage and health together in a more consistent,equal & fair range it would breathe new life into all events within MPQ.
  • jackstar0
    jackstar0 Posts: 1,280 Chairperson of the Boards
    nevermind
  • Basepuzzler
    Basepuzzler Posts: 180 Tile Toppler
    Jonny1Punch said:
    Basepuzzler said:
    If they insist on power creep they don’t have to being Phoenix all the way to okoye levels.  Give all the old 5’s match damage around the GR or SL level.  And then in 6 months do it again.  The new 5’s can be strongest but the oldest don’t have to be left in the dust forever.
    I totally & respectfully disagree with this. A 5* power/HP/match damage or overall usefulness should not be dependent on whether it’s an “ old vs new” release. The date of release should dictate nothing in regards to a characters value,power & overall usefulness. Yet sadly it currently does...

    5* are still incredibly hard to acquire/cover especially the older classics . Spending money, time & resources chasing current 5* is just as costly as when we were chasing the older ones years ago. So when I pull a green goblin 5* cover I should be excited as he’s one of my favorites ..... instead all I can think about is how at level 491 my GG has the same health as a level 451 okoye. How he is not sustainable in pvp against most 5s significantly lower leveled then him. 40+ 5* levels is a huge difference and the fact that he’s been so devalued with the monstrous power creep is simply cheap and unfair.

    My personal opinion is the 5* tier would be so much more diverse and entertaining if it was more dependent on the level you have your 5* at and not the “ shiny new toy vs old outdated toy “ . I think if we bring everyone’s match damage and health together in a more consistent,equal & fair range it would breathe new life into all events within MPQ.
    I agree completely.  It unfortunately feels like the match damage and health power creep is a non-negotiable point from the devs standpoint.  Was just trying to reach a middle ground but if they were all the same I’d be happier.
  • ZeroKarma
    ZeroKarma Posts: 513 Critical Contributor
    I don’t think the devs have ever made any statement at all concerning the health and match damage. At one point very long ago, they talked about creating character classes like tank or glass cannon, but you would think that it would be implemented in a way that makes sense and would be communicated. There is also no reason to believe that creating such a structure would not encompass older characters.

    For instance, when team affiliations were created they went back and “fixed” older characters at the same time. This would seem to me to be in a similar vein. You are changing an attribute of all characters in a tier.

    Further i would expect it to follow some sort of guideline. Strange and Phoenix have low health, for example. Wouldn’t it follow that Gambit would also have low health or that other characters would come along at similar levels? 

    Instead the bar is being inexorably raised higher with nothing regarding gameplay that would warrant it other than using basic stats as a tool to make new characters better. Something that should be done through active and passive powers.

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