Josu Vess and L3's 3rd Ability [Fix in 2.9]

Blazer
Blazer Posts: 84 Match Maker
edited September 2018 in MtGPQ Bugs & Technical Issues
When you initially cast Josu with Liliana 3's ultimate out it will do the 4 damage like it states on all of the tokens entering the battlefield, but when you cast an additional Josu and create the tokens or another card that generates zombie tokens (i.e. Liliana's Mastery, From under the floorboards,...) it will not do the 4 damage. 

//Edited Title -Brigby

Comments

  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2018
    Blazer said:
    When you initially cast Josu with Liliana 3's ultimate out it will do the 4 damage like it states on all of the tokens entering the battlefield, but when you cast an additional Josu and create the tokens or another card that generates zombie tokens (i.e. Liliana's Mastery, From under the floorboards,...) it will not do the 4 damage. 
    This is a quirk with leader.  Tokens entering the battlefield and reinforcing the leader do not trigger ETB effects, probably because the game treats it as a passive reinforcement (a la Evolutionary Leap) and not as a creature entering the battlefield.

    Not sure if it it intentional or not, but it seems correct, just unintuitive.
  • Blazer
    Blazer Posts: 84 Match Maker
    But the first time you cast Josu it creates the first token then reinforces it 5 more times and it counts those (it doesn't even do the token animation just ups the reinforcement count), I agree it might be intended that way but is not consistent with it's own inconsistency. 
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    Blazer said:
    But the first time you cast Josu it creates the first token then reinforces it 5 more times and it counts those (it doesn't even do the token animation just ups the reinforcement count), I agree it might be intended that way but is not consistent with it's own inconsistency. 
    I am assuming that is different, since the tokens technically enter simultaneously (so they all trigger before being exiled and combined).  Note I am mostly pulling this out of my ****.
  • Brigby
    Brigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,757 Site Admin
    Hmm good question! I'll pass that along to the developers, and see what they say about that interaction
  • DBJones
    DBJones Posts: 803 Critical Contributor
    The reason the two are different is because Josu summons all six of his tokens I assume. Casting the other leaders should properly trigger ETB effects as well. I wonder if casting Josu again would trigger the damage again? It should if I'm right about his leader tokens reinforcing themselves normally instead of the leader ability eating them.
  • Blazer
    Blazer Posts: 84 Match Maker
    When you cast a second Josu and create the tokens it does not activate the 4 damage FYI
  • Zzyzzx
    Zzyzzx Posts: 251 Mover and Shaker
    Since we're discussing the token leader zombies, I've observed a few weird interactions with other token zombies.
    If I pop an Aftermath gem on the board, such as Dreamstealer, it is treated as a token zombie and reinforces my leader zombie hoard.
    If I cast Dunes of the Dead, the token zombie reinforces the leader hoard.
    If I have a generic token zombie and any other critter in play, Josu enters the battlefield and immediately creates the leader token.  Then the leader zombies ask me to replace a critter, rather than consuming and reinforcing the existing token.  This does not happen if I have only the 1 critter slot taken by the token zombies.
    It seems like the leader zombie enters the battlefield before consuming the other token(s), and I'm not sure if this is intentional.

    A token zombie (including an aftermath critter) entering the battlefield after the leader zombie token is already in play reinforces correctly.  This I expected and is likely by design.

    The 4/4 token zombies created by Hour of Promise, however, have never reinforced the leader zombie hoard...this seems like an oversight, I assumed they would reinforce...but they do not.  It might just be as simple as that particular zombie not even having the "token" keyword anywhere associated with the card.
  • DBJones
    DBJones Posts: 803 Critical Contributor
    The 4/4 zombies not reinforcing is probably due to them being implemented as creatures called zombie without the zombie subtype. That's an old bug that never got fixed. They don't work with stuff like Prized Amalgam either.
  • Zzyzzx
    Zzyzzx Posts: 251 Mover and Shaker
    That seems consistent, still, an old bug is still a bug.
  • Brigby
    Brigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,757 Site Admin
    Hi Everyone. This should be fixed in 2.9
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    Brigby said:
    Hi Everyone. This should be fixed in 2.9
    What is being fixed in 2.9?  Tokens reinforcing a leader not triggering ETB effects, or the Zombie tokens from Hour of Promise not counting as Zombies for leaders?
  • Brigby
    Brigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,757 Site Admin
    The latter issue you mentioned is still being investigated I'm afraid. As for the former issue you mentioned, it would appear that this was the bug that was fixed:
    • Enter the battlefield effects are triggered when summoning a token creature while another creature with Leader for that token's creature subtype is on the battlefield in Battle.
    Based on that description, I believe the 5 additional token reinforcements from Josu are not supposed to trigger the ETB effect, and it will be fixed in 2.9

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