Confessions of a hoarder

alaeth

No, not some new reality show... my personal drive and justification for how I play and why I hoard tokens.

@Brigby asked in a thread (I think it was the big 'Saved Covers" nerf thread) about why would someone hoard tokens.

Looking through the front page, posts about JJ "disappearing", a post about Classic Legendary pull percentages, It re-enforced my decision to begin hoarding again. Int the 5* world, those 5s are EVERYTHING.  Sure, the new Ghost is interesting, and maybe when she is boost I might use her (as I'm using Riri now in this PvP), but almost all of my 4s are used for essentials only.  5* are king.

My Madness:
Up until this morning (when Jessica left), there were three "good" 5* in the Latest vault (in my opinion).  Having a 1/7 chance of puling one of them means that my CP and LTs have a much better chance of finishing one. So I pulled... and pulled, and pulled.  Every morning I'd spend my CP, and earned LTs. Managed to cover all three (pre "Saving", so I got my CS swaps)


The Numbers:
224 pulls in the JJ/Okoye/IW:Cap vault

12x Captain
8x Jessica
15x Okoye
+1 5* BH Okoye

Taking the exact same numbers (15.6% 5* pull percentage), from the classics tokes:
~1.5 covers per Classic (35 covers / 22 characters in the Classic vault)

Without swaps (which were never a thing in Classics), I be lucky to get a single one of my old dusty clsssics maybe... 5...? additional covers.  A bit closer to Championed, but no-where near competitive.

So I pulled, and now I'll hoard.  Mathematically it makes the most sense to my pea-sized brain.  I can get 3 of the newest 5s "well covered" (in my case, JJ, Okoye, and Cap are all championed).  Had I pulled Classics non-stop, I'd have a more even roster... more 5s with "some" covers... but non-Championed 5 are useless except when they're essential.

At my MMR, I can't go into a PvP match with my un-Championed 5s and win. I need a few high-level characters, and that means sacrificing the rest (Doc at one cover, AA at 1/1/0, etc).  The Devs have done a really good job at making almost every 5 competitive against every other (except for You-Know-Who, and a couple poor souls at the bottom of the heap), so if I have one 5 at 480, and the rest suck... as long as it's not one of the bottom feeders, I can be competitive.  I feel I NEED to hoard to have a competitive roster... to build up those LTs and CP and spend them all in a burst. Having a 500+ 5* is a game changer, and (aside for a few weaker ones) it really doesn't matter who it is.

Also, the loss of CS cover-swaps makes me want to hoard even MORE.  The probability of having a "bad pull" is statistically rare, but if it happens, it means I need to wait months more to get THAT character in THAT color. My best chance to finish a specific character is to wait for a "Character Release" vault where they're paired with a new release and another 5 I already have (hopefully championed)... then I can pull nad pull and pull again... thousands of CP and hundreds of LTs means even with bad RNG(), I will have all 3 finished.



So that's my confession, that's why I'm now back in hoarding mode, after a long run of opening EVERYTHING I have... I'm back in my cave, gathering my LTs and CPs for the next opportunity to splurge and finish 3 characters at once...

The rockett

This is a great write up.  As said in here, a new 5* at 450, unless overpowered, does nothing for you in pvp or really pve unless they are an essential.  @alaeth is like me and we will hoard almost every token. I won’t open any until probably after Christmas.  ISO doesn’t mean anything now, post iso, have all 4* champed except Ghost.  So what else is there to do?  Nothing but hoard so you can get a 470-500 5*.  That will make a difference or they will just sit on the bench like almost all of them. 

Right now for PVP, I use JJ/Okoye/Thor/Gambit maybe Thanos.   That’s it.  The other 16 champed (from 482-450) just waste away being useless.  They are here for PVE essentials or Thanos Fodder for pve.  

Cactus_Jack_87

Don't hoard bro, or you'll miss out on Wasp. I've heard that she's top tier!

thedarkphoenix

Yup I pulled everything I got "which you'd think the point of the game would be" up until JJ left. Now I feel like anything outside of hording and waiting to pull "useful" 5's is a total waste. 

So the game got just a tad bit less exciting for me know it will be months before I pop open anything to do with a 5...

Either the bonus pulls on the classic needs to be increased or the price dropped another 5 cp...


Either way with the change to swaps, Its hard to justify using cp on anything thats not deemed a "good" 5

DyingLegend

Hoarding is the most boring thing to me, but you have to hoard to make progress IMO.

entrailbucket

I'm sure all the guys who hoarded to get a giant Gambit/Thor will be doing just fine after they get nerfbatted.

I don't hoard anything, I pull latest tokens immediately and classics when I get to 20CP (I'll even stop in the middle of a PvE grind to pull if I hit 20).  My highest 5* is OML at 539 and I have 4 others at 500 or better.  I have all the rest of the 5* championed besides Okoye and Wasp.  I use them all in PvE and PvP.  I also have all the 4* up to Rogue at 370 with duplicates for each, and boosted 370 4* are about equivalent to the 450 5* that everyone uses so I have even more options.

I spend, but I'm not some huge whale.  My *lifetime* spend is less than what some people spent on Digital Day.  My alliance does not allow buyclubs, so we all help each other grow our rosters with CP, but most of the alliance spends about what I do.

So if hoarding is the only way to grow your roster, how am I doing ok?  Have I been doing it wrong for 4 and a half years?  I accept that progress is incredibly slow -- I probably get at most 2 or 3 5* covers a week doing what I do, but over the years they build up, and the process accelerates the more champions you have.  I just don't understand how people can make no progress at all for months at a time.  I'd get bored and quit.

Vhailorx

What's this about the probability of wasted covers being low in a post-cs swap world?  My JJ finished 0/8/2 after months of chasing her.  But hey, I got 10, 8, and 7 covers for aa, gr, and beard cap respectively for my effort.  Yay?!

I play at a lower level than most in this thread, so i am just aiming for a functional 450-455, rather than a PvP-competitive 470+. 

But what I actually got was 4x 5*s in the 7-10 cover wasteland of uselessness. 

There is absolutely no reason for me to do anything but hoard as hard as I can.  If I have a realistic shot at okoye in 12 weeks, then maybe I will take my chances. But failing that, i am clearly better served by hoarding up 300+ pulls and waiting for 3 good 5*s.  This is a significant design failure on demi's part.  The incentive structure at the 5* level continues to be horrible. It's mortgage your house, and/or binge + purge.  Anything else is a waste of resources.  Saved covers, and even 5* feeders, do little to change the calculus, especially when the former comes paired with the end of 1:1 cs swaps.

thedarkphoenix

entrailbucket said:

I'm sure all the guys who hoarded to get a giant Gambit/Thor will be doing just fine after they get nerfbatted.

I don't hoard anything, I pull latest tokens immediately and classics when I get to 20CP (I'll even stop in the middle of a PvE grind to pull if I hit 20).  My highest 5* is OML at 539 and I have 4 others at 500 or better.  I have all the rest of the 5* championed besides Okoye and Wasp.  I use them all in PvE and PvP.  I also have all the 4* up to Rogue at 370 with duplicates for each, and boosted 370 4* are about equivalent to the 450 5* that everyone uses so I have even more options.

I spend, but I'm not some huge whale.  My *lifetime* spend is less than what some people spent on Digital Day.  My alliance does not allow buyclubs, so we all help each other grow our rosters with CP, but most of the alliance spends about what I do.

So if hoarding is the only way to grow your roster, how am I doing ok?  Have I been doing it wrong for 4 and a half years?  I accept that progress is incredibly slow -- I probably get at most 2 or 3 5* covers a week doing what I do, but over the years they build up, and the process accelerates the more champions you have.  I just don't understand how people can make no progress at all for months at a time.  I'd get bored and quit.

You play ALOT and or got lucky

alaeth

@entrailbucket I think you may have a more "even" roster than I do...  I'm guessing you're pulling classic tokens?


For me, I have a bunch of 5s with 5 in one color, and almost nothing in the others.  In my pea-sized brain, this means I can "accidentally" pull that 5 and have "waste" by spending 3 covers of an already super-rare probability pull to get a single cover of a color I need...


Instead, I hoard my CP for those Release vaults, where my odds are far better.

I never said it was "smart" or even "fun"... but my fear of missing out (accidental waste) makes it almost physically painful to do otherwise...

Cactus_Jack_87

I spend, but I'm not some huge whale.  My *lifetime* spend is less than what some people spent on Digital Day.

Your lifetime spend is still more than the cost of my single wide trailer. Hoarding is essential for guys like me that like to PvP competitively, but also have to live on rain water and ketchup soup.

entrailbucket

Yes, I only use CP on classics.  I'm generally able to cover the latest before they leave with incidental token rewards/champion rewards, or I catch them when they go to classics.

My 5* pull rate is a little below the stated odds, so not particularly lucky.  I did have all of the 3* and 4* maxed on the day the champion feature was released, so I had a bit of a head start over some others.

I had to waste some 5* covers along the way due to duplicates/no swaps for classics.  I did not die.  It sucked; but I kept pulling and got them championed eventually.

Progress this way is very slow, but progress is progress and to me, it's better than getting nothing at all for months.  I understand that the conventional wisdom around here is that it's better to make no progress forever and then a whole bunch all at once.  But if you're patient enough to hoard forever, aren't you patient enough to progress slowly but continuously?

The rockett

entrailbucket said:

Yes, I only use CP on classics.  I'm generally able to cover the latest before they leave with incidental token rewards/champion rewards, or I catch them when they go to classics.

My 5* pull rate is a little below the stated odds, so not particularly lucky.  I did have all of the 3* and 4* maxed on the day the champion feature was released, so I had a bit of a head start over some others.

I had to waste some 5* covers along the way due to duplicates/no swaps for classics.  I did not die.  It sucked; but I kept pulling and got them championed eventually.

Progress this way is very slow, but progress is progress and to me, it's better than getting nothing at all for months.  I understand that the conventional wisdom around here is that it's better to make no progress forever and then a whole bunch all at once.  But if you're patient enough to hoard forever, aren't you patient enough to progress slowly but continuously?

While I do understand what you are getting at, let me ask this. What does a 450 Wasp, Banner, GRRR, ArchAngel, Doc Ock do for you when you have 5-5* over 500?   Nothing but Thanos Fodder for pve or the E for PVE.  So the thought process is, at least for me, is to just deal with a few PVE with weak 5* E to try and bank for a 480+ char.  

entrailbucket

But I'm not giving up the 480+ character, is the thing.  I'll get them all there eventually.  Gambit is up to 470 now, with most of the covers after he went into classics.   It'll take a really really long time to get a newer guy that far, but who cares about that?  Along the way I'm getting piles of 4*, which kick out even more rewards, and a few other 5* too.

Sm0keyJ0e

I hoard because the simple fact is not all 5*'s are created equally. If there was any semblance of balance in the tier, I'd likely open as I went as well. But there's not. Some 5*'s have really great design and others do not. I compete just fine in PVE with a 1-cover 5* required. In PVP, there are about 5-6 usable 5*'s that are just scary enough on defense at high levels and are fun to play and can beat anything on offense.

EDIT: and yes, I'm not spending a single command point or latest legendary token while that poor excuse for a 5* toon that just entered is in there.

Dormammu

Sm0keyJ0e said:

EDIT: and yes, I'm not spending a single command point or latest legendary token while that poor excuse for a 5* toon that just entered is in there.

Yeah, it's going to be a while waiting for Wasp to leave. The hoard should have plenty of time to get nice and big.

Cactus_Jack_87

If they come to their senses and fix Wasp, I'd be happy to pull again. But seeing how her numbers even at 550 are pathetically low, I don't want to waste months of hard work champing her just to have a slightly easier 5* essential node for her.

broll

The rockett said:

entrailbucket said:

Yes, I only use CP on classics.  I'm generally able to cover the latest before they leave with incidental token rewards/champion rewards, or I catch them when they go to classics.

My 5* pull rate is a little below the stated odds, so not particularly lucky.  I did have all of the 3* and 4* maxed on the day the champion feature was released, so I had a bit of a head start over some others.

I had to waste some 5* covers along the way due to duplicates/no swaps for classics.  I did not die.  It sucked; but I kept pulling and got them championed eventually.

Progress this way is very slow, but progress is progress and to me, it's better than getting nothing at all for months.  I understand that the conventional wisdom around here is that it's better to make no progress forever and then a whole bunch all at once.  But if you're patient enough to hoard forever, aren't you patient enough to progress slowly but continuously?

While I do understand what you are getting at, let me ask this. What does a 450 Wasp, Banner, GRRR, ArchAngel, Doc Ock do for you when you have 5-5* over 500?   Nothing but Thanos Fodder for pve or the E for PVE.  So the thought process is, at least for me, is to just deal with a few PVE with weak 5* E to try and bank for a 480+ char.  

You're assuming he has 5 5*s over 500.  One of the reason I'm pulling classics vs latest now post swap is i don't want to be in that boat you described.  I'd much rather get all 5*s (even the bad ones) champed wtih nothing over 460-470.  

The rockett

broll said:

The rockett said:

entrailbucket said:

Yes, I only use CP on classics.  I'm generally able to cover the latest before they leave with incidental token rewards/champion rewards, or I catch them when they go to classics.

My 5* pull rate is a little below the stated odds, so not particularly lucky.  I did have all of the 3* and 4* maxed on the day the champion feature was released, so I had a bit of a head start over some others.

I had to waste some 5* covers along the way due to duplicates/no swaps for classics.  I did not die.  It sucked; but I kept pulling and got them championed eventually.

Progress this way is very slow, but progress is progress and to me, it's better than getting nothing at all for months.  I understand that the conventional wisdom around here is that it's better to make no progress forever and then a whole bunch all at once.  But if you're patient enough to hoard forever, aren't you patient enough to progress slowly but continuously?

While I do understand what you are getting at, let me ask this. What does a 450 Wasp, Banner, GRRR, ArchAngel, Doc Ock do for you when you have 5-5* over 500?   Nothing but Thanos Fodder for pve or the E for PVE.  So the thought process is, at least for me, is to just deal with a few PVE with weak 5* E to try and bank for a 480+ char.  

You're assuming he has 5 5*s over 500.  One of the reason I'm pulling classics vs latest now post swap is i don't want to be in that boat you described.  I'd much rather get all 5*s (even the bad ones) champed wtih nothing over 460-470.  

I know his roster and he also said what he has.  You can also look it up if you know his ally.  Not hard to find out.  

entrailbucket

The rockett said:

entrailbucket said:

Yes, I only use CP on classics.  I'm generally able to cover the latest before they leave with incidental token rewards/champion rewards, or I catch them when they go to classics.

My 5* pull rate is a little below the stated odds, so not particularly lucky.  I did have all of the 3* and 4* maxed on the day the champion feature was released, so I had a bit of a head start over some others.

I had to waste some 5* covers along the way due to duplicates/no swaps for classics.  I did not die.  It sucked; but I kept pulling and got them championed eventually.

Progress this way is very slow, but progress is progress and to me, it's better than getting nothing at all for months.  I understand that the conventional wisdom around here is that it's better to make no progress forever and then a whole bunch all at once.  But if you're patient enough to hoard forever, aren't you patient enough to progress slowly but continuously?

While I do understand what you are getting at, let me ask this. What does a 450 Wasp, Banner, GRRR, ArchAngel, Doc Ock do for you when you have 5-5* over 500?   Nothing but Thanos Fodder for pve or the E for PVE.  So the thought process is, at least for me, is to just deal with a few PVE with weak 5* E to try and bank for a 480+ char.  

A 450 Wasp, Banner, etc does nothing for me today.  But today isn't the end, and they're not going to be stuck at 450 forever.  You'd be surprised how effective some of the "low-tier" 5* are at higher levels.

The other thing is that I don't want to get caught out by metagame changes and nerfs/buffs.  We all know they never buff or nerf characters, so whoever the best is today will be the best forever, and whoever is the worst today will be the worst forever, right?  Having everyone means I can handle something like the Gambit catastro-nerf easily, and if they lose their minds and pull an X-Force on Doc Ock or something, I'm ready for that too.

bluewolf

For anyone hoarding past Wasp, your 126 day countdown began today. 18 weeks.  Here’s hoping one of those 5’s come early.

Daredevil217

Unfortunately have to pull for Okoye still, so expecting plenty of Wasps in my future. Those pills sure will sting!