End 1star farming

Options
Jwallyr
Jwallyr Posts: 165 Tile Toppler
in MPQ Suggestions and Feedback
1star farming is tedious and annoying, but with so many players talking about being ISO-starved at the high levels, I feel obligated to maximize my ISO wherever I can. As a result, I have nearly every 1star rostered in various states, with the 3-color characters having their abilities shuffled around by Power Shift, and the 2-colors get rostered, trained up to 5/5 (or however close they get before I need the slot) and sold.

For those not aware, the point is that instead of getting the 100 ISO for selling the cover, you can instead recruit the character (and when you sell the character you get the 100 ISO back) and get 10 xp for each cover you use to train them; the Shield Rank rewards for doing so give you a somewhat higher return (like 30%?) that diminishes until you hit some very high shield rank (140? I forget) and it stops being worth it, as the net return falls below the static sale price of 100 ISO.

The issue is that you spend time and roster slots shuffling these useless 1stars around, and occasionally you get bad runs when you have a really slanted color distribution on one of the 2-color characters, forcing you to either buy additional slots or sell incomplete copies for less than the optimal return. All for some tiny return that is probably unintentional and of questionable value, but obviously as an edge advantage there’s an incentive to maximize it.

One simple fix might be to increase the tiny sale price to something like 130 ISO, so that it would almost always be better to sell the cover, but with the flood of standard tokens from story events this might be a larger boost to player ISO than desired. Another less simple fix that largely preserves the current economy would be to create something like champing for 1stars, only the level doesn’t increase and there are no other rewards. Basically, let you “train” the cover and get your 10 xp, no other rewards, but without the hassle of selling maxed 1stars to roster dupes, no headaches about pulling 35 red covers for juggernaut but only 3 green covers, etc.

I’m sure there are other ways this could be fixed, and since I can only assume that players are not intended to spend a bunch of time managing 1-Star farms for tiny gains in ISO, it seems to me that this could be a significant QOL gain for many players. Like, why should my 1star farm be a bigger hassle to maintain than my 2star farm?? They’re mechanically irrelevant outside of the prologue and the first node of Deadpool daily, have no champ rewards, are not required in story events, etc etc etc but I’m sill incentivized by the rewards to putter with shuffling them around outside any actual gameplay purpose? Annoying.
«1

Comments

  • Jwallyr
    Jwallyr Posts: 165 Tile Toppler
    Options
    It would be nice not to have to choose between knowingly playing suboptimally and engaging with a tedious chore that seems to be unintentional in the game design, but nonetheless confers a minor benefit if you choose to engage in the tedium. It's not by any stretch the biggest problem in the game currently, but would be a QOL benefit for OCD players like myself.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2018
    Options
    Jwallyr said:
    It would be nice not to have to choose between knowingly playing suboptimally and engaging with a tedious chore that seems to be unintentional in the game design, but nonetheless confers a minor benefit if you choose to engage in the tedium. It's not by any stretch the biggest problem in the game currently, but would be a QOL benefit for OCD players like myself.
    You're exaggerating quite a bit here.  1* farming is only optimal up to a certain SR and even then the benefits are marginal.  If you don't like it, don't do it...  I stopped it before the SR number because it was boring and it certainly hasn't hurt me.
  • Jwallyr
    Jwallyr Posts: 165 Tile Toppler
    Options
    I mean, unless you're post-ISO there's an argument that it has hurt you, you just don't care because the amount is minor. That's fine,  but for OCD people like me it sticks in my craw a bit, and it seems like a minor bump to 1star-cover sale price would make that headache go away entirely.

    *shrug* Just my 2 cents.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2018
    Options
    Jwallyr said:
    I mean, unless you're post-ISO there's an argument that it has hurt you, you just don't care because the amount is minor. That's fine,  but for OCD people like me it sticks in my craw a bit, and it seems like a minor bump to 1star-cover sale price would make that headache go away entirely.

    *shrug* Just my 2 cents.
    My 20 tab spreadsheet and 4000+ posts about a mobile game challenges your assumption that I'm not OCD ;).

    When I say it hasn't hurt me I mean it hasn't caused me to sell a single cover, because i haven't.  I'm not post-ISO.  The amounts gained from 1* farm are so trivial and the champ costs for 4* & 5* characters are so high that it's not likely to be a problem unless you're still champing 3* and lower characters (not counting farming).
  • whitecat31
    whitecat31 Posts: 579 Critical Contributor
    Options
    If somebody wants to invest in the slots, then 1 star farming is an easy option. It takes me a few minutes every couple of days. I am on Shield Rank 164 and I still find the 1 star farming profitable.

    There is another option, for you, which is just sell all your 1 stars except what you use for the daily Deadpool 
    Then:
    1. Hit your Roster tab.
    2. Claim your rewards.
    3. Choose the drop down button and choose all the 1 stars.
    4. Click the button that says sell all the 1 stars
    5. Then hit OK to accept the selling of all the 1 stars.
    6. Then program your OCD self, to say "I will have good luck for the rest of my MPQ game play for 12 hours, because I sold my 1 stars."
  • Dormammu
    Dormammu Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2018
    Options
    @DeNappa is correct, the OP is proposing a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. It doesn't mean you are playing 'sub-optimally' if you are not farming 1-stars. That's ridiculous.

    At my shield level (112) it would take 460 1-stars to go up a level and get 57k ISO. That would take me 2-3 months. Or... I could just sell the 1-stars and get 47k ISO. That's a difference of 10k ISO.

    If another player getting 10K more ISO than me every 2-3 months (which is not even enough ISO to champ a 2-star once a year) makes me sub-optimal, so be it.
  • whitecat31
    whitecat31 Posts: 579 Critical Contributor
    Options
    @Dormammu I am going up a shield level on average of at least every 10 days (currently level 164), and because I actively participate in pvp and lightning rounds, I strongly believe that the 1 star ISO is a huge chunk of the gains. Net gain is about 7.2K for three color covered 1 stars and 10K for the two color covered 1 stars. 
  • Dormammu
    Dormammu Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    Options
    whitecat31 said:
    @Dormammu I am going up a shield level on average of at least every 10 days (currently level 164), and because I actively participate in pvp and lightning rounds, I strongly believe that the 1 star ISO is a huge chunk of the gains.
    It's not. It's 10XP per 1-star farmed. Do the math.
  • Jwallyr
    Jwallyr Posts: 165 Tile Toppler
    Options
    I never claimed it was a big problem mathematically, but that for OCD players like myself it's an annoyance to handle, and it's also hard for me to just let go of the ~30% increase in ISO value (at my current Shield rank of 96, I think?) from doing the recruit/train/sell/repeat dance of one-star farming.

    Doesn't bother you? Fine, but that doesn't mean that the disparity between sale price and effective ISO value if trained makes any sense, or that it doesn't create an incentive (no matter how small) to engage in the otherwise 100% pointless activity of one-star farming. Honestly, I wish they would either make it impossible or make it not advantageous to do so, because then there wouldn't be any question of whether to bother with it, but I'm just not sure why it's important enough to argue against my random QOL request... just scroll past?
  • whitecat31
    whitecat31 Posts: 579 Critical Contributor
    Options
    Dormammu said:
    whitecat31 said:
    @Dormammu I am going up a shield level on average of at least every 10 days (currently level 164), and because I actively participate in pvp and lightning rounds, I strongly believe that the 1 star ISO is a huge chunk of the gains.
    It's not. It's 10XP per 1-star farmed. Do the math.

    I use an excel spread sheet.  I will go by those numbers.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2018
    Options
    Technically you aren't actually gaining anything, you're losing in the long term.  You're trading in the 100 ISO per cover in order to get to the next SR sooner.  Had you not farmed 1*s when you get to that same SR it would take you longer, but you'd have more total ISO.  In a game this long-term it's not a good trade unless you're drowning in ISO requirements and getting the SR level boost a few days - a week sooner will save a cover or more.  That's the only place where you actually gain anything from 1* farming.  Other than that it's just a giant placebo where you're actually losing on the trade long-term.

    Jwallyr said:
    Doesn't bother you? Fine, but that doesn't mean that the disparity between sale price and effective ISO value if trained makes any sense, or that it doesn't create an incentive (no matter how small) to engage in the otherwise 100% pointless activity of one-star farming. Honestly, I wish they would either make it impossible or make it not advantageous to do so, because then there wouldn't be any question of whether to bother with it, but I'm just not sure why it's important enough to argue against my random QOL request... just scroll past?
    You're asking for a QOL that isn't needed or wanted by most.  It's also not needed because there is nothing stopping you from stopping 1* farming.  It's not as optimal as you claim/think and even you admit it's more about your own OCD then the actual gain.  If my OCD was bothered by the fact that the total number of tiers is 5 which is an odd number should the devs arbitrarily drop a tier or add a tier if I asked for such a QOL request?  

    My concerns with the request are:
    1.  You're asking them to expend development time, a limited resource, on this which means in turn other QOL things that are wanted/needed by larger numbers of players would need to be put on hold to do this.
    2.  The possibility of them changing the sale prices at all levels when they make this change and breaking actual optimal 2* strats.
    3.  The president of making a request that even the requester or admits is only needed because of his own quirks.
    4. (EDIT) Because you're asking for choice to be taken away from others because you're not opting to use the choice you really want to use. I will always fight against the removal of choice as it's too rare in this game as it is.

    Anyway I've more than said my peace on this subject so I'll stop now.
    .
  • Sim Mayor
    Sim Mayor Posts: 309 Mover and Shaker
    Options
    Jwallyr said:

    *SNIP* I'm just not sure why it's important enough to argue against my random QOL request... just scroll past?
    Because your QOL request interferes with other people's QOL just because of your FOMO?
  • Alex502
    Alex502 Posts: 183 Tile Toppler
    edited July 2018
    Options
    This all made me laugh so much. The only thing I see that's valid here is this: farming 1* earns minor exp which does boost the SR. However, I wouldn't waste my roster space on even that, let alone training the useless things. I have 130 slots, and have a hard enough time maintaining a strong 2* farm. This whole concept of "my 1* farm isn't worth much" is ridiculous because you said it, its worthless. The ISO sale at the start is just as inconsequential, so really, taking the time and effort to manage a 1* farm is the only loss you're really experiencing.
  • Jwallyr
    Jwallyr Posts: 165 Tile Toppler
    Options
    1a) I'm not sure how changing a single variable (1star cover sale price) from 100 to 130 is significant development time, or that implementing a champing system such as exists at every other tier already, but with reduced (i.e. no) rewards would take a lot of time away from more pressing issues.
    1b) Are you complaining on every feature request that you don't particularly want, or am just lucky to have attracted your attention? rolls eyes
    2) If the sale price vs. xp reward => shield rank => ISO is so insignificant (as nearly everybody is complaining), then why would a minor bump require that they refactor all the other ISO costs/rewards and "screw up optimal 2* strats"? Seems like you're complaining that it's "not enough reward" to bother with, but that it's "too much reward" to leave the other tiers alone. So which is it?
    3) I think there are solid arguments (see the OP) that the incentive, however minor, to 1* farm, is unintentional and shouldn't exist in the game. Trying to make this about me personally is pretty gross, Broll.
    4) So you're arguing that it's better for players to have to choose between ~130 ISO per cover + a bunch of annoying and unnecessary roster management, or 100 ISO per cover than to just get 130 ISO per cover? So two bad choices are better than one single good option?

    Whatever, dude. I'm just stunned that you think it's worth your time and energy to complain so hard about this minor pet peeve of mine, but if you're going to bother, you should at least have reasonable arguments.
  • Sim Mayor
    Sim Mayor Posts: 309 Mover and Shaker
    Options
    Jwallyr said:
    1a) I'm not sure how changing a single variable (1star cover sale price) from 100 to 130 is significant development time, or that implementing a champing system such as exists at every other tier already, but with reduced (i.e. no) rewards would take a lot of time away from more pressing issues.
    1b) Are you complaining on every feature request that you don't particularly want, or am just lucky to have attracted your attention? rolls eyes
    2) If the sale price vs. xp reward => shield rank => ISO is so insignificant (as nearly everybody is complaining), then why would a minor bump require that they refactor all the other ISO costs/rewards and "screw up optimal 2* strats"? Seems like you're complaining that it's "not enough reward" to bother with, but that it's "too much reward" to leave the other tiers alone. So which is it?
    3) I think there are solid arguments (see the OP) that the incentive, however minor, to 1* farm, is unintentional and shouldn't exist in the game. Trying to make this about me personally is pretty gross, Broll.
    4) So you're arguing that it's better for players to have to choose between ~130 ISO per cover + a bunch of annoying and unnecessary roster management, or 100 ISO per cover than to just get 130 ISO per cover? So two bad choices are better than one single good option?

    Whatever, dude. I'm just stunned that you think it's worth your time and energy to complain so hard about this minor pet peeve of mine, but if you're going to bother, you should at least have reasonable arguments.
    Ooh! I'll take these:

    1a) The amount of development time required is significantly higher than the amount required to not change something that is not a problem.
    1b) Only the ones that make zero sense.
    2) Because the rewards are already calibrated properly. If there's a change to one set of rewards, others need recalibrating.
    3) You're the one complaining about it, and your own posts actually makes it about yourself by saying it "would be a QOL benefit for OCD players like myself."
    4) The choices we have already aren't bad for anyone but you. Nobody else is complaining about this. Everybody either sells the covers or farms them for experience without making an issue of it.

    And if you're stunned by how much time and energy other people are putting into the argument, you must be shocked, shocked I say, at how much you're putting in to respond to them all.

    Now for a quick personal note before I bow out, please stop referring to this as your OCD. I know people with OCD. They have a very real psychological disorder. You just want a better return on time you're already choosing to spend playing a game.
  • Jwallyr
    Jwallyr Posts: 165 Tile Toppler
    Options
    Right. so you guys don't think it's a problem so it's not a problem, and I should just shut up and go away. I guess I missed the part where this forum is explicitly the place for problems of a specified and objectively measurable volume, and everything else is subject to dogpiles from people who happen to disagree with whatever the suggestion is.

    Sheesh. What a "community".
  • Sim Mayor
    Sim Mayor Posts: 309 Mover and Shaker
    Options
    Jwallyr said:
    Right. so you guys don't think it's a problem so it's not a problem, and I should just shut up and go away. I guess I missed the part where this forum is explicitly the place for problems of a specified and objectively measurable volume, and everything else is subject to dogpiles from people who happen to disagree with whatever the suggestion is.

    Sheesh. What a "community".
    Actually, it seems to me that this is exactly what a community should be doing. You brought up an issue, and the rest of the community is discussing it. I'm sorry you're unhappy that the outcome of that discussion isn't in your favor. That doesn't make it wrong, and it doesn't mean that anybody is dogpiling on you, it just means that literally nobody else agrees with you that this is a problem.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2018
    Options
    Sim Mayor said:
    Jwallyr said:
    Right. so you guys don't think it's a problem so it's not a problem, and I should just shut up and go away. I guess I missed the part where this forum is explicitly the place for problems of a specified and objectively measurable volume, and everything else is subject to dogpiles from people who happen to disagree with whatever the suggestion is.

    Sheesh. What a "community".
    Actually, it seems to me that this is exactly what a community should be doing. You brought up an issue, and the rest of the community is discussing it. I'm sorry you're unhappy that the outcome of that discussion isn't in your favor. That doesn't make it wrong, and it doesn't mean that anybody is dogpiling on you, it just means that literally nobody else agrees with you that this is a problem.
    Exactly.  If someone petitioned your city to make the street you live on one way and that would impact you negatively, you'd probably petition the city not to do that request. 

    That's community...  Prioritizing the needs of the many over the needs of the few.  That's often messy and involves people with contrasting opinions and ideas fighting for their concernts/ideas/etc.

    I'm sorry you have an issue with this aspect of the game.  I have issues with the aspects of the game too.  When i do I put posts like this and fight for them, sometimes against resistance far tougher than we're giving.  If it's that important to you fight the good fight, but it's up to you if it's worth it or not.  Good luck to you whatever you choose.  I mean you no ill-will, I just don't like this particular idea and will rebel against it regardless who brings it up.  Have a nice day.

Categories