Full hand bounce and Journey to Eternity [Investigating]

DBJones

I'm not sure whether this is a bug, but when I used Time of Ice to bounce the creatures of one of the vampires from BoFT, their Journey to Eternity wouldn't trigger even if they had a full hand and the creature was destroyed. I don't know how other bounce effects work either in this case.

//Edited Title -Brigby

rafalele

Perhaps it did not trigger because the creatures were not destroyed in the battleground just after returned to hand.

Rhasget

I have noticed that when you destroy creatures with a bounce or steal spell it doesn't count as destroyed.
At least not in events where the objectives are: Kill x creatures.

Might not be all bounce but Trapped in Ice and In Bolas Clutches does not add to the killcount.

DBJones

…Time of Ice is how I get the kill objective in that BoFT vampire node though. Is Trapped in Ice something else? In Bolas's Clutches and the other similar steals count as one of your creatures dying for objective purposes.

Rhasget

DBJones said:

…Time of Ice is how I get the kill objective in that BoFT vampire node though. Is Trapped in Ice something else? In Bolas's Clutches and the other similar steals count as one of your creatures dying for objective purposes.

My bad, meant Time of Ice. But strange that it didn't count my kills.

I will have to try some cards in AI to see if I can replicate what I did.

DBJones

It won't count when you actually bounce the creature, but you did say destroy… Maybe you tried it with Expel from Orazca? If you have the City's Blessing it'll stick the creature on top of your opponent's deck, so it'll never kill anything at that point. Or you could have just run into a bug, good luck trying to pin it down!

Mburn7

It could also be due to a different bug where disabled creatures dying do not trigger Journey to Eternity, despite the support having the ability and not the creature.

Were the creatures disabled (from Time of Ice) when they were bounced?

DBJones

I don't think they were ever disabled when it killed them, and I know there were at least a couple times when they weren't. They did have summoning sickness though, in case that matters.

Rhasget

When you kill a stolen creature (stolen with Clutches of Bolas and chosen not to replace ) and have Angraths ult out, the opponent takes 6 dmg. That means it enters his graveyard but it does not add to the killcount (AI second node).

I have  not yet faced an opponent that cast Journey to Eternity though to try Time of Ice/disablers/bounce more.

DBJones

Interesting, in other tests permanently stolen creatures go into the stealer's graveyard after they die (including choosing not to replace one of your creatures with Lay Claim). For instance, Embalm and Eternalize creatures will show up on your side if you hit their activated gem(s). Angrath triggering could either be an indication that they changed this, or just something weird.

Enygma6

Temporary steals (those from Red cards, and Angrath) always send cards back to the owner's graveyard.  Permanent steals (Blue based) send it to the new controller's graveyard.  
Angrath's level 4 Captain's Command might count as a kill against you since the creature dies in your possession, but the destroyed creature card will go back to the opponent graveyard.  I'm not sure how that would count for triggering Journey to Eternity on either side.

DBJones

That's what I thought, but Rhasget says he cast In Bolas' Clutches (stolen with Mastermind's Acquisition?), chose not to replace one of his creatures, and Angrath's ultimate triggered to do damage to the opponent. It didn't count as a kill though (AcrI node 2), so I suspect this is another sign that Angrath's ultimate needs some tweaking. Though this one's a much less worrisome issue than tokens triggering it.

Rhasget

DBJones said:

That's what I thought, but Rhasget says he cast In Bolas' Clutches (stolen with Mastermind's Acquisition?), chose not to replace one of his creatures, and Angrath's ultimate triggered to do damage to the opponent. It didn't count as a kill though (AcrI node 2), so I suspect this is another sign that Angrath's ultimate needs some tweaking. Though this one's a much less worrisome issue than tokens triggering it.

Stolen with Etali. 
I don't know if it counted as one of my creatures destroyed though.

DBJones

I know that Lay Claim counts as one of your creatures dying in those circumstances, I'd be surprised if Clutches was any different.

Enygma6

In Bolas's Clutches is a permanent steal.  A creature you take by it will go to your own graveyard (unless Greg destroys the support first).