Cold, Hard Truths For Newbs and Vets

pheregas

This game is a marathon.  And like every marathon that has ever existed, it is more difficult if you didn't start at the beginning, but you can catch up with enough effort (time or spending).

The game also divides people into the haves and the have nots.  This was made even more evident with the introduction of Gambit.  For those that did not have him, it was the beginning of frustration due to the ubiquitous nature of him in PVP.  For those that did have him, it made PVP more tolerable, but still just as ubiquitous.  Gambit was not the first character to define this, nor will he be the last.

The nature of this game lends itself to speed.  From PVE optimal clear times to PVP shield hops, the faster and more damage you can do, the greater your chances of success.  Hamstringing Gambit just effectively changed hop times and will now leave people more vulnerable to being hit during shield hops.  And while Gambit was very nice in PVE, his usefulness was vastly diminished when they started boosting the 5* essentials.   The game may introduce as many new fancy 5s as it wants, but no new character will break the meta if that character doesn't do massive damage or AP gains quickly.

The new character release schedule is relentless and will not change.

2*s are way too common.  I can go days without opening a standard, heroic, or vault token without getting anything higher than a 2*.  Sometimes it feels as if the 2* farm is the only progress made in the game.  As the devs seem to think feelings are important these days (see the whole enemy cascade update), maybe address the feelings of opening 20+ tokens and not getting a single 3*+ cover.

Diversity is a myth once out of the 4+ transition.  Even with 18 champed 5s, I only use two.

Once you move up a star tier almost every character from the previous tier becomes useless and is relegated to farm status.

The forums are not kind.  Do not wear your heart on your sleeve around here because it will get ripped to shreds.


Add your own words of wisdom below:

ThaRoadWarrior

If you're not farming, you're doing it wrong. Keeping an army of 2*s on roster that you never use outside of required nodes may not seem as sexy as that brand new 4* you only have 1 cover for, but over time, it is the only meaningful way to progress.

The most reliable cover you can get on purpose is a 3* bonus cover. Do with that information what you will.

broll

I agree.  This is why I push for the game to change.  Right now the game is growing out with wider tiers (really just 4 & 5) exclusively.  It needs to start growing up instead, into higher tiers.  As higher tiers are introduced the lower tiers all become more available.  It's probably even worth discarding or recycling the older tiers (for example removing the 1* tier from the game and eventually recycling those art assets as new 5*s or 6*s).  It taking 3+ years to get to endgame in a mobile game isn't healthy, for the game or the user

Punter1

 pheregas said:

This game is a marathon.  And like every marathon that has ever existed, it is more difficult if you didn't start at the beginning, but you can catch up with enough effort (time or spending).

I'd argue if I started a marathon not at the beginning, but with only a mile to go, it would be much easier...

pheregas

Punter1 said:

 pheregas said:

This game is a marathon.  And like every marathon that has ever existed, it is more difficult if you didn't start at the beginning, but you can catch up with enough effort (time or spending).

I'd argue if I started a marathon not at the beginning, but with only a mile to go, it would be much easier...

I think players get sandboxed for that.  

ThaRoadWarrior

broll said:

I agree.  This is why I push for the game to change.  Right now the game is growing out with wider tiers (really just 4 & 5) exclusively.  It needs to start growing up instead, into higher tiers. 

Promoting characters up to the next tier rather than rostering a variant could be an interesting evolution of the max-champing system. The game sort of tacitly guides you to throw your lower tier characters out as you are granted higher tier characters faster than you are granted the ability to roster them, but then over time it really damages your ability to play if you do it. Speaking of evoloution, you could even treat it like Pokemon where holding a character's evolution off until max level results in better starting stats at the following form

thedarkphoenix

I thought 2 farming netted negative

Jexman

I'd like to see the 1 star tier removed as well. Day 1600+, I get a standard token, I just wanna play switch instead.

Blindman13

thedarkphoenix said:

I thought 2 farming netted negative

If you only look at the ISO numbers, 2* farming does result in a slightly negative ISO flow, but in exchange for that you get HP, CP, heroic tokens and 3* covers.  The bonuses far outweigh the slight ISO loss, plus you get XP to help you proceed through SHIELD ranks quicker

ThaRoadWarrior

2 farming is for 3* covers, cp, heroics, and hp at a regular pace. It is a slight iso loss, but it is decidedly the fast f2p way to gaining the HP you need for roster slots.

Also the XP you get to go up shield levels, which if you factor in to the total cost of farming actually brings you out positive I believe. Even if you aren't farming them per se (selling and re-rostering max champs), you do need to have them on roster to gain access to nodes you'll need to complete for progression.

bbigler

Well, I have several thoughts regarding the general flow and growth of the game, but I think the good part of this game can be boiled down to 2 things: 1) it's enjoyable to make progress upwards and become stronger, 2) it's fun discovering new teams and character powers, which is a result from building up.  Everything else in the game contributes to these 2 things.

The OP obviously lives in the 5* tier, which alters his perception of the game as a whole.  The game is not "haves" and "have-nots", there's every degree in between.  It's a spectrum, not black or white.  Yes, speed is essential to getting top placement rewards, but if you're tired of doing the same thing over and over, then slow down and use different characters that are slower but give you more gameplay variety.  You won't get top placement, but the game should be more fun, which is really the whole point of playing.

I have never had a problem of going days without getting a 3*cover from tokens.   Or in other words, I almost always get a 3* cover from opening tokens for the day.  The average 3*cover rate is very good.  These forums aren't too bad in terms of people being mean.  We aren't arguing politics or religion here.

I do think the game should grow upwards,not outwards.  The game works like this: the time you spend building up a tier is equivalent to the number of characters in that tier.  This means that by the time you've collected enough covers to start champing the next tier, you should be almost done champing the previous tier.  BUT, the problem here is that the time it takes to "complete" a tier multiplies by 3 or 4 with each tier.  So, the higher you go, the slower your tier progress becomes. 

What I would prefer (from a gameplay perspective) is that the time it takes to progress from tier to tier is equivalent, but if they implemented that model, then new players could never compete with old players.  And for this game to survive, they have to make it friendly to new players.  My current restart experiment will prove that new players can reach 4* or 5* land quickly and become competitive, which is what D3 wants.  Given the recent change to have more 4*PVP events, D3 has implied that a large portion (or majority) of the player base is in 4*land.  So, people are progressing quickly and then slowing to a crawl in the 4*tier, it seems. 

bbigler

thedarkphoenix said:

I thought 2 farming netted negative

Given the XP gains, I believe it nets a little positive, plus you get all those other rewards.

ZeiramMR

The non-ISO rewards are what makes the dip in ISO worth it. But what people are not noting is that anyone who makes a duplicate 2* while the original is max-champed is spending a much larger initial investment than the ~8000 ISO loss by selling the max champ to start the new one.

Dormammu

I never had a 5-star Gambit and I was fine. I don't worry about speed and I still get prizes. I seem to keep up with covering new releases okay (though dilution will slow that down). I don't farm 2-stars and enjoy the tidy sum of ISO I get from selling a bushel of them every day, yet I still earn enough HP to keep up with new releases. I still use my 3-stars even though I am a 4-star player - the boosted ones are often helpful. Oh, and I enjoy the forums. I like it here. They are what you make of them.

pheregas said:

Diversity is a myth once out of the 4+ transition.  Even with 18 champed 5s, I only use two.

This I actually agree with. Everything else you said makes me think you don't enjoy MPQ and should maybe try a different game?

BoyWonder1914

pheregas said:

Diversity is a myth once out of the 4+ transition.  Even with 18 champed 5s, I only use two.

Once you move up a star tier almost every character from the previous tier becomes useless and is relegated to farm status.

Almost said something that was essentially a re-wording of this. This may not be as prevalent now that enemy scaling is no longer roster based, but when I champed my first few characters from a higher tier, I found myself using them almost exclusively. Iron Man was my first 3-star champ, and was an immediate staple on my roster as I made the 3-star transition. Every 3-star I champed after that either provided an outlet for the AP he generated or simply gave me a more powerful option than a two-star, so it flat-out didn't feel right when I wasn't using them. Cyclops and Iceman were my first 4-star champs, and Ice40 was my go-to PVP until I got a more diverse set of champed 4-stars. It's tough to rely on lower tiers again when you have someone on your roster clearly more powerful, so the moral of the story is to only move up to the next tier with characters you know you'll get good bang for your buck on. I'm currently stalling myself at the 4-star tier because I don't feel Gambit, Surfer, Black Suit Spidey, or Goblin are good options to come out of the gate with. Gambit would have been great, but without a good partner for him I was just food for all the better Gambit teams. 

shartattack

I have 9 5* champed.  i use/will use 6 reguarly; thor, gambit, jess, thanos, dd, bolt.  I don't use Spidey (though he's the most fun) Necrocap, and Robbie much.

Daredevil217

pheregas said:

Add your own words of wisdom below:

Stay in the 4* tier.

sirwookieechris

Daredevil217 said:

pheregas said:

Add your own words of wisdom below:

Stay in the 4* tier.

The pros outweigh the cons imo. Huge variety of characters to choose from, easier to cover, still viable at high end play (SCL7+). Plus you don't get screwed if one hero gets nerfed. Just play any of the 99 other viable characters.

n25philly

I'd argue that this is mostly wrong.  The marathon aspect of this game is the best part of it.  I've played daily but relatively casually for years.  This is one of the few games like this were I don't feel punished for being a have not.  unlike a lot of other games, I don't feel like I need to have the best of everything to succeed and move forward.

I have a 5* Gambit that maybe has one or two covers on it and never used him outside of a required node in PvE.  Never had a problem.  I find plenty of matches and enjoy the game no problem.  It's the end game that is an issue.  People want to rush to have all the top stuff and that is where you run into a problem.  Yeah, if you want to be #1 in PvP and that is how you judge having fun then yeah, you age going to have an issue if you don't have a fully loaded whoever the top guy is.

Otherwise,. enjoy the game because it's fun.  I enjoy playing on my secondary account that is now on day 1117 and has a whopping 2 champed 4*'s.  Why because the game is fun and has stuff for everyone, whether you are a have or have not.

JHawkInc

sirwookieechris said:

Daredevil217 said:

pheregas said:

Add your own words of wisdom below:

Stay in the 4* tier.

The pros outweigh the cons imo. Huge variety of characters to choose from, easier to cover, still viable at high end play (SCL7+). Plus you don't get screwed if one hero gets nerfed. Just play any of the 99 other viable characters.

I have 8 5* champs and all of this still applies to me. I still use 4's every day, I still have a high variety of characters to choose from, and I regularly place t100 in SCL9 and have no problem hitting 900+ in PVP. The 5* tier isn't this nightmare people make it out to be. Top placement is a nightmare, but it's a nightmare at the 4* tier as well.

sirwookieechris

JHawkInc said:

sirwookieechris said:

Daredevil217 said:

pheregas said:

Add your own words of wisdom below:

Stay in the 4* tier.

The pros outweigh the cons imo. Huge variety of characters to choose from, easier to cover, still viable at high end play (SCL7+). Plus you don't get screwed if one hero gets nerfed. Just play any of the 99 other viable characters.

I have 8 5* champs and all of this still applies to me. I still use 4's every day, I still have a high variety of characters to choose from, and I regularly place t100 in SCL9 and have no problem hitting 900+ in PVP. The 5* tier isn't this nightmare people make it out to be. Top placement is a nightmare, but it's a nightmare at the 4* tier as well.

Obviously pve gets easier with 5* since it is SCL based rather than roster based. There is no reason to soft cap for pve.

How “well” you do in pvp seems to based around what your 5* heroes are. If your using gambit then I’m not surprised your having no issues at the moment. If your champed 5* were Banner, Logan, Widow, Phoenix, and Doc Oc and 5* land hasn’t been for the worse, I would have to call you a liar.