What Happened? (Ambuscade, Prying Blade, Etali) [Investigating]

Mburn7

Somehow after the latest update a bunch of old cards that were working perfectly now don't work.

Ambuscade gives the +2/+0 buff after the damage is dealt instead of before

Prying Blade creates the treasure after combat damage is dealt, instead of when attacking

Etali does not give fetched cards full mana all the time (seems to cap out at 20 or so), nor does he (she?) fetch cards if your hand is full (although it works now if your opponents hand is full, so good fix there)

There was definitely at least one other card that broke, I just cant remember now (please fill in any I have missed).

@Brigby what happened?

//Edited Title -Brigby

Blazer

Anguished Unmaking is not working the same as it was, now both conditions have to be met to cast. Not sure if its a bug or how the card was originally intended?

Coilbox

in theory (correct me if im wrong) ambuscade now works as intended.
Regardless of giving the buff to your creature before or after the damage is done to the opponent creature, the card always specified that the damage would be equal to your creature's initial power, which is the power before getting any buff.
Previously, despite giving the buff before the damage (which is the order that the card specifies), the damage done was incorrect because it was augmented +2 because of the buff.
The order in which buff/damage occurs doesn't really make a difference, but the effect is exactly as it should be. 

Blazer

Ambuscade reads "the initial creatures power" not "the creatures initial power" not sure if it semantics but I understand it as the "initial" creature being the first one that got the +2/0 buff so it is a bug?

Coilbox

Blazer said:

Ambuscade reads "the initial creatures power" not "the creatures initial power" not sure if it semantics but I understand it as the "initial" creature being the first one that got the +2/0 buff so it is a bug?

erhm... if the desired effect was that i suposse they would have worded the card differently, not 'that' complicated... i would say 'initial' means the power of your creature before the buff...

i guess they will clarify at some point. 

DBJones

Prying Blade did have a glitch, it would trigger even if your first creature didn't attack (0 power for instance). I would prefer it triggering before an attack, but now it does trigger twice for a double strike creature. Also, I think anything that lets you get extra cards when your hand is full is treated as a glitch, though Etali now seems to steal the last card from your opponent's hand if they have six cards, leading to them drawing a new card.

khurram

Coilbox said:

Blazer said:

Ambuscade reads "the initial creatures power" not "the creatures initial power" not sure if it semantics but I understand it as the "initial" creature being the first one that got the +2/0 buff so it is a bug?

erhm... if the desired effect was that i suposse they would have worded the card differently, not 'that' complicated... i would say 'initial' means the power of your creature before the buff...

i guess they will clarify at some point. 

Erhm, initial creature means initial creature. Not that complicated.

Kinesia

khurram said:

Coilbox said:

Blazer said:

Ambuscade reads "the initial creatures power" not "the creatures initial power" not sure if it semantics but I understand it as the "initial" creature being the first one that got the +2/0 buff so it is a bug?

erhm... if the desired effect was that i suposse they would have worded the card differently, not 'that' complicated... i would say 'initial' means the power of your creature before the buff...

i guess they will clarify at some point. 

Erhm, initial creature means initial creature. Not that complicated.

The complicated bit is apparently some of the translations are different from English, so some people in our coalitions have expected different things. We were all a bit surprised when we worked it out.

Coilbox

khurram said:

Coilbox said:

Blazer said:

Ambuscade reads "the initial creatures power" not "the creatures initial power" not sure if it semantics but I understand it as the "initial" creature being the first one that got the +2/0 buff so it is a bug?

erhm... if the desired effect was that i suposse they would have worded the card differently, not 'that' complicated... i would say 'initial' means the power of your creature before the buff...

i guess they will clarify at some point. 

Erhm, initial creature means initial creature. Not that complicated.

Erhm... Well the card says ‘initial creature’s power’, english is not my native language, but it means the power of the creature initially (before getting buffed) exactly as its working now.

@Brigby can you throw some light here please?

Enygma6

If Ambuscade is to work comparable to it's paper card counterpart, it should work as it used to:  
1) Apply temporary buff to your creature
2) Your creature inflicts its current power value in damage to opponent creature  

At present this order is backwards, and the buff is not removed at end of turn.

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=430799
"Target creature you control gets +1/+0 until end of turn. It deals damage equal to its power to target creature an opponent controls."

Mburn7

DBJones said:

Prying Blade did have a glitch, it would trigger even if your first creature didn't attack (0 power for instance). I would prefer it triggering before an attack, but now it does trigger twice for a double strike creature. Also, I think anything that lets you get extra cards when your hand is full is treated as a glitch, though Etali now seems to steal the last card from your opponent's hand if they have six cards, leading to them drawing a new card.

Huh, I never saw that Prying Blade bug (dont usually have a 0 attack creature).

If it triggers twice for a double strike, though, it is definitely broken.  The card clearly reads "when it attacks" instead of "when it deals combat damage"

As for Etali stealing the last card, I think that's usually how these kinds of effects work with a full hand (like how the Goggles fill the last spell if your hand is full).  Its due to how they code it, which is that your opponent draws a card, it gains full mana, and then you steal it (you can see it happen in real time if you look quickly).  Not saying it's right, but its probably not a big deal.

ZW2007-

Ambuscade reads "The first creature you control gets +2/0 then the first creature your opponent controls takes X damage, where X is the initial creature's Power."

So your first creature gets +2/0, then your opponent's first creature takes damage dependent on your first creature's power. "Initial creature" simply means the original creature referenced in the card text.

Etali was bugged and allowing you to have more than 6 cards in your hand. 6 cards is the hard limit and Etali was somehow breaking that but was fixed. As for Etali not giving full mana, I haven't noticed that but obviously that is a new bug.

Prying Blade reads "While this support is on the board, your first creature gets +2/+0 and "Whenever this creature deals combat damage, find a Treasure".

Prying Blade was bugged, now it is fixed. 

Mburn7

ZW2007- said:

Etali was bugged and allowing you to have more than 6 cards in your hand. 6 cards is the hard limit and Etali was somehow breaking that but was fixed. As for Etali not giving full mana, I haven't noticed that but obviously that is a new bug.

There is precedent for that happening with other fetch cards, so it wasn't necessarily a bug.  I mean, it probably was.  But it wouldn't be surprising if it wasn't.

ZW2007- said:

Prying Blade reads "While this support is on the board, your first creature gets +2/+0 and "Whenever this creature deals combat damage, find a Treasure".

Prying Blade was bugged, now it is fixed. 

I just checked, it does indeed say that now.  I am 95% certain that it read "when this creature attacks" before.  They must have changed it.  Not sure why they would.  It was so good with Lannery, now its just meh.  Oh well.

Bil

Mburn7 said:

ZW2007- said:

Etali was bugged and allowing you to have more than 6 cards in your hand. 6 cards is the hard limit and Etali was somehow breaking that but was fixed. As for Etali not giving full mana, I haven't noticed that but obviously that is a new bug.

There is precedent for that happening with other fetch cards, so it wasn't necessarily a bug.  I mean, it probably was.  But it wouldn't be surprising if it wasn't.

ZW2007- said:

Prying Blade reads "While this support is on the board, your first creature gets +2/+0 and "Whenever this creature deals combat damage, find a Treasure".

Prying Blade was bugged, now it is fixed. 

I just checked, it does indeed say that now.  I am 95% certain that it read "when this creature attacks" before.  They must have changed it.  Not sure why they would.  It was so good with Lannery, now its just meh.  Oh well.

Lannery will remain an amazing card without it, and there will be a slot for a funnier card to play. 

Mburn7

Bil said:

Mburn7 said:

ZW2007- said:

Etali was bugged and allowing you to have more than 6 cards in your hand. 6 cards is the hard limit and Etali was somehow breaking that but was fixed. As for Etali not giving full mana, I haven't noticed that but obviously that is a new bug.

There is precedent for that happening with other fetch cards, so it wasn't necessarily a bug.  I mean, it probably was.  But it wouldn't be surprising if it wasn't.

ZW2007- said:

Prying Blade reads "While this support is on the board, your first creature gets +2/+0 and "Whenever this creature deals combat damage, find a Treasure".

Prying Blade was bugged, now it is fixed. 

I just checked, it does indeed say that now.  I am 95% certain that it read "when this creature attacks" before.  They must have changed it.  Not sure why they would.  It was so good with Lannery, now its just meh.  Oh well.

Lannery will remain an amazing card without it, and there will be a slot for a funnier card to play. 

Fair point.  I just don't like losing combo options.  Especially without any real explanation like this.

Brigby

Please use the open thread discussing the potential bug with Ambuscade HERE. There is already an open bug in our database, regarding the creature gaining +2/+0 after dealing damage, as opposed to before. 

As for Prying Blade, it was supposed to trigger on damage dealt, not when attacking. That has since been fixed.

Etali was not supposed to trigger if your hand was full, and that was fixed as well. As for not giving full mana to the card, I'll inform the QA team of that issue, so they can investigate.

DBJones

Actually this change to Prying Blade can end up being better with Lannery than before, in a couple of ways. Obviously, if you give Lannery double strike somehow (admittedly difficult in standard) it's more damage and treasures than before. Also, if you use the double strike pirate, getting him in the first slot and Lannery in the second gives more overall damage than the old way it worked, which means you don't have to wait to play your pirates to the same degree.