Lich's Mastery

GrizzoMtGPQ
GrizzoMtGPQ Posts: 776 Critical Contributor
in MtGPQ General Discussion
Anybody played this card yet? Has 5 shields and makes it so that you can NEVER be hurt. Sound fun to play against? Oh, and it's rare. Better pack some support destruction if you are playing against Black.
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Comments

  • Thuran
    Thuran Posts: 456 Mover and Shaker
    Come now Grizzers, you know me and Tim have spent the past days working to break it, no need to ask ;)

    But yeah, don't go into PvP without supp destruction in this standard. You will regret it!
  • ALEJANDROID
    ALEJANDROID Posts: 71 Match Maker
    edited May 2018
    Just got it and it is amazing, if you can get several on the boad when you get one destroyed you take no damage, still a big card source is needed as the discard cost is a heavy toll.

    Edit: If you have more than one on the board, you draw that many cards each time you win life. AWESOME!
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,731 Chairperson of the Boards
    been drooling over that card since the sneak peek came out.

    one day...
  • Firinmahlazer
    Firinmahlazer Posts: 417 Mover and Shaker
    I think support removal is practically mandatory anyway. At least it has been for me ever since Cruel Reality started kicking my teeth in. 
  • Bil
    Bil Posts: 831 Critical Contributor
      Its mandatory yes ... But what are you supposed to do if you play black or blue? It's the first time a support has such an impact on the win conditions. A support that is almost impossible to destroy through matches (5 shields) ... 
    Black decks will have no option to deal with. Blue can still rebuke but it is a rare and expensive card ( it will actually give a delay when bumping the support to the hand and won't even cause the damage though).
       I honestly think a support that gives walkers prevent damage should not exist except if its a 1-shield support or a self-degrading support. They are options to make the card fit in mtgpq, but the current version is too gamebreaking, will be abused and will cause problems before long.
       
  • GrizzoMtGPQ
    GrizzoMtGPQ Posts: 776 Critical Contributor
    Bil said:
      Its mandatory yes ... But what are you supposed to do if you play black or blue? It's the first time a support has such an impact on the win conditions. A support that is almost impossible to destroy through matches (5 shields) ... 
    Black decks will have no option to deal with. Blue can still rebuke but it is a rare and expensive card ( it will actually give a delay when bumping the support to the hand and won't even cause the damage though).
       I honestly think a support that gives walkers prevent damage should not exist except if its a 1-shield support or a self-degrading support. They are options to make the card fit in mtgpq, but the current version is too gamebreaking, will be abused and will cause problems before long.
       
    Totally agree. This card is not formulated correctly. I guess it comes down to how the AI plays it.
  • tfg76
    tfg76 Posts: 258 Mover and Shaker
    Interesting card. It seems like it would be perfect for the RTO black node, but then you are also saying that you will insta-lose the objective if the opponent has support removal.
  • Szamsziel
    Szamsziel Posts: 463 Mover and Shaker
    Remember that it is costly and vs red demolish you are risking life using it. So it's playing for high stakes. 
  • Thuran
    Thuran Posts: 456 Mover and Shaker
    edited May 2018
    So, its a problem if you play monoblack, Almost like there is a reason to play multicolour? ;) 

    Black has always had this weakness, and it is part of the colour pie. Red is also screwed if they need to gain life, and green didn't use to have kill spells for nonfliers., Likewise blue does not have direct outright removal, often replacing with another creature, the few times that they do have something to actually kill or exile a target.

    The way black typically deals with it in paper is to run discard effects, to make sure they don't get to cast it. I hear infinite obliteration is still a good card.

    Support removal is the one weakness of a colour with: Lifegain, potent creatures, best removal in the game, arguably best supports, best discard in the game, lifedrain/burn. Every colour needs a weakness, and it is your duty to find a way to compensate in your deckbuilding.

    Feels silly to judge cards based on how monocoloured walkers are poised against said cards. 

    You can always go for gem changing to black, and in the meantime keep the enemy deck under control. Them being impervious to damage doesn't help them if they cannot kill you. Yes, it will take forever, but we are talking about a single matchup. 

    Also, lose life effects bypass the mastery, so that is another black way of beating it. Vicious conquistador beats a mastery, and that is an uncommon. Not a fast solution, but you can board it in when facing black :)

     Forerunner of the coalition is also a good card to beat mastery. 

    Dire fleet ravager is another solution

    Raiders wake completely destroys lich's mastery

    Twilight prophet beats it 

    And that was just a casual glance at my collection 
  • Szamsziel
    Szamsziel Posts: 463 Mover and Shaker
    Are you sure that lifeloss beat mastery? I'm playing ravager in my lich deck and only my opponent loose life. 
  • Thuran
    Thuran Posts: 456 Mover and Shaker
    It should, as lifeloss and damage are two different things, and you only get prevent damage. Likewise, if you got two of them out in play, it does not prevent the 30 life lost by one of the masteries being destroyed. 

    That said, it is possible that cards reading "lifeloss" are programmed to be "damage", which however would make the term "lose life" void and should just read "deal damage" 
  • Bil
    Bil Posts: 831 Critical Contributor
    Gideons intervention worked on life loss if I remember well.
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,731 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2018
    Thuran said:
    It should, as lifeloss and damage are two different things, and you only get prevent damage. Likewise, if you got two of them out in play, it does not prevent the 30 life lost by one of the masteries being destroyed. 

    That said, it is possible that cards reading "lifeloss" are programmed to be "damage", which however would make the term "lose life" void and should just read "deal damage" 
    it's tricky that Octagon decided to expand to this, since the mtg mechanics that compose this play style are a bit too complex for the capabilities of the simplified mtgpq combat style.

    ***I suppose an easy solution would be to just add "when this support is destroyed, you lose prevent damage," which would override any other Lich's Mastery that is currently in play and insure that the player still takes the damage; you would have to cast another one to regain the effects.

    A counterargument would be that means playing multiple Lich's Mastery would no longer work for a black pillowfort, but the easy counter to that is losing the card in mtg means you lose the game, of which only losing ~1/3 of your life in mtgpq is quite merciful. 
  • ZW2007-
    ZW2007- Posts: 812 Critical Contributor
    Lifeloss and damage are two different things...in paper. Here they both do the same thing.
  • Blazer
    Blazer Posts: 84 Match Maker
    Using Lil 1 and LM had a game go for 30+ min with no way of either side winning, was going against a Nahiri HOD/DtGW that put up a wall against my creatures. I quit with both players having full life. With this and the Naru/Siren's Ruse exploit, going to be a-lot of rage quitting.
  • Kinesia
    Kinesia Posts: 1,621 Chairperson of the Boards
    How about 2 Lil 1's with LM against each other? Grin.
  • madwren
    madwren Posts: 2,259 Chairperson of the Boards
    Thuran said:
    It should, as lifeloss and damage are two different things, and you only get prevent damage.

    That's paper. This is PQ, where they're functionally identical.

    I've been playing around with LM and it's a hoot.  The worst matchup, however, was a TG match when an opposing Etali stole a copy of it, so the two of us just bounced off each other for like 15 minutes until I finally managed to match it away.
  • WiLDRAGE
    WiLDRAGE Posts: 145 Tile Toppler
    I don't know if this has been pointed out yet, but since it doesn't reinforce, casting multiples means that if one gets destroyed, the other instances of it effectively negate the damage.

    Sure you discard more cards, but with Eternalize creatures and Aftermath still being in the format, it's not exactly a big deal.

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