Dom Card Release Rate

BATMAN1

How will Dom be released? All at once or as two separate sets? I know paper has moved to just one set per block, I’m wondering what the mtgpq community should expect to see. 

//Edited Title For Clarity -Brigby

Gunmix25

BATMAN1 said:

How will Dom be released? All at once or as two separate sets? I know paper has moved to just one set per block, I’m wondering what the mtgpq community should expect to see. 

Two parts of a set was something that Hibernium did. I for one hope that Oktagon releases the whole shebang

Firinmahlazer

Gunmix25 said:

BATMAN1 said:

How will Dom be released? All at once or as two separate sets? I know paper has moved to just one set per block, I’m wondering what the mtgpq community should expect to see. 

Two parts of a set was something that Hibernium did. I for one hope that Oktagon releases the whole shebang

Agreed. The slow trickle release was not ideal to say the least. 

Coilbox

'The Ixalan Move' was really really sneaky and evil from whoever had that idea...

First release a **** half of the set with the bad cards (in general), wait for the crowd to throw all their currencies into them (dont blame them, after soooooo many months without any content everyone was really eager to get something new...), and then when everyone has nothing, in less than a month throw Rivals with the good stuff so if people want them they will have to throw cash...

I hope this wont be the case with Dominaria again...

Gunmix25

Coilbox said:

'The Ixalan Move' was really really sneaky and evil from whoever had that idea...

First release a tinykitty half of the set with the bad cards (in general), wait for the crowd to throw all their currencies into them (dont blame them, after soooooo many months without any content everyone was really eager to get something new...), and then when everyone has nothing, in less than a month throw Rivals with the good stuff so if people want them they will have to throw cash...

I hope this wont be the case with Dominaria again...

Highly doubtful. For one, IXN and RIX are considered to be two separate sets, not two parts of a set like in the past. Oktagon had stated that RIX was coming very soon after IXN. I suspect it was ushered in ASAP  in Order to alleviate the discontent that IXN created... an educated guess about that mind you and I saw it as a bad move imho. But If correct I get why they did it. 

Anyways, the next set release beyond Dominaria is Core 2019 in July... which I suspect will be late July when the PQ version is released. Approximately 2 months later; about 1 month past Dominaria being introduced to Crafting. 

That said, Oktagon did nothing sneaky about IXN. Many of us chose to cash in even when we all saw how mediocre those cards were. When they realized that they essentially tweaked the cost and power ratio too heavily, they applied that hindsight into foresight for RIX... I'm 100% sure that RIX was initially under the same constraints that IXN was. I'm glad they pulled back a bit a rethought their approach. It did bite that they released it so soon after IXN. But again I get why they did.  

wereotter

Gunmix25 said:

Anyways, the next set release beyond Dominaria is Core 2019 in July... which I suspect will be late July when the PQ version is released. Approximately 2 months later; about 1 month past Dominaria being introduced to Crafting. 

Not to derail things here, but now that we've gotten our first taste of what's being printed in Core 2019, I'm starting to wonder if it will be integrated into the game at all. Of the 18 cards already known to be in the set, 7 exist in Puzzle Quest already:

Act of Treason
Anticipate
Cancel
Disperse
Mighty Leap
Tormenting Voice
Sure Strike

With such a small number of cards we can anticipate coming available, it'll be difficult to say just how that set gets handled.

DumasAG

wereotter said:

Gunmix25 said:

Anyways, the next set release beyond Dominaria is Core 2019 in July... which I suspect will be late July when the PQ version is released. Approximately 2 months later; about 1 month past Dominaria being introduced to Crafting. 

Not to derail things here, but now that we've gotten our first taste of what's being printed in Core 2019, I'm starting to wonder if it will be integrated into the game at all. Of the 18 cards already known to be in the set, 7 exist in Puzzle Quest already:

Act of Treason
Anticipate
Cancel
Disperse
Mighty Leap
Tormenting Voice
Sure Strike

With such a small number of cards we can anticipate coming available, it'll be difficult to say just how that set gets handled.

If a significant portion of 2019 are reprints, I'd vote that the new content from 2019 is simply added as a small set that's added to origins after 3 months or so. This gives veterans an opportunity to purchase the new cards without all the dupes, then makes it widely available to new members at the lower booster-crafting rates.

I would actually suggest this same treatment for all the random content that Wizards releases (PW decks, Commander, etc.) release it 20-30 cards at a time, then just add it to Origins.

wereotter

Core 2019 has been confirmed to be at least 50% reprints, which is standard for core sets. 

I would think that if they keep adding to Origins, it doesn’t really incentivize long term players to opening packs as with so few cards, it will be more effective to simply craft what you need. Also it would have the potential to make Origins an unwieldy beast with too many cards to balance between and around.

if it’s too many reprints, I could see it being skipped, or released as a stand alone small set that still follows rotation and costs less for packs than large sets. 

Kinesia

I hope they use the opportunity to set up reprints _properly_ in this game, so we can use older version that are now legal again. Currently the system doesn't exist at all.
Remember when Demolish and Dual Strike disappeared from our collections?

Gunmix25

wereotter said:

Gunmix25 said:

Anyways, the next set release beyond Dominaria is Core 2019 in July... which I suspect will be late July when the PQ version is released. Approximately 2 months later; about 1 month past Dominaria being introduced to Crafting. 

Not to derail things here, but now that we've gotten our first taste of what's being printed in Core 2019, I'm starting to wonder if it will be integrated into the game at all. Of the 18 cards already known to be in the set, 7 exist in Puzzle Quest already:

Act of Treason
Anticipate
Cancel
Disperse
Mighty Leap
Tormenting Voice
Sure Strike

With such a small number of cards we can anticipate coming available, it'll be difficult to say just how that set gets handled.

I had.wondered about that too. Core sets are often a repeated collective.... so do they bring those cards back giving an extended lifespan in standard or do they skip the set in its entirety? If the latter, then what is to replace it? 

Brakkis

Coilbox said:

'The Ixalan Move' was really really sneaky and evil from whoever had that idea...

First release a tinykitty half of the set with the bad cards (in general), wait for the crowd to throw all their currencies into them (dont blame them, after soooooo many months without any content everyone was really eager to get something new...), and then when everyone has nothing, in less than a month throw Rivals with the good stuff so if people want them they will have to throw cash...

I hope this wont be the case with Dominaria again...

I... avoided this because I was so disappointed with Ixalan that I got a single Premium Pack, and Vraska, then nothing else. I have almost all of the RIX rares and half the RIX mythics while having almost none of the IXN rares/mythics. No money spent.

Gunmix25

Brakkis said:

Coilbox said:

'The Ixalan Move' was really really sneaky and evil from whoever had that idea...

First release a tinykitty half of the set with the bad cards (in general), wait for the crowd to throw all their currencies into them (dont blame them, after soooooo many months without any content everyone was really eager to get something new...), and then when everyone has nothing, in less than a month throw Rivals with the good stuff so if people want them they will have to throw cash...

I hope this wont be the case with Dominaria again...

I... avoided this because I was so disappointed with Ixalan that I got a single Premium Pack, and Vraska, then nothing else. I have almost all of the RIX rares and half the RIX mythics while having almost none of the IXN rares/mythics. No money spent.

Been farming IXN via orbs here. I refuse to buy a pack and I've gotten almost all the cards I want from RIX and too expensive to buy the remaining so I am trying to get the rares from IXN, which are actually pretty good compared to the mythics.

ZW2007-

wereotter said:

Gunmix25 said:

Anyways, the next set release beyond Dominaria is Core 2019 in July... which I suspect will be late July when the PQ version is released. Approximately 2 months later; about 1 month past Dominaria being introduced to Crafting. 

Not to derail things here, but now that we've gotten our first taste of what's being printed in Core 2019, I'm starting to wonder if it will be integrated into the game at all. Of the 18 cards already known to be in the set, 7 exist in Puzzle Quest already:

Act of Treason
Anticipate
Cancel
Disperse
Mighty Leap
Tormenting Voice
Sure Strike

With such a small number of cards we can anticipate coming available, it'll be difficult to say just how that set gets handled.

Only some of those cards are still standard legal because they are in Origins. The rest there would be no problem in reimplementing them in M19 because it would put them back into standard, which is the entire purpose of reprints.

Act of Treason is ORI.
Anticipate is BFZ.
Cancel is AKH
Disperse is ORI
Mighty Leap is ORI
Tormenting Voice is SOI
Sure Strike is BFZ.

There is also no guarantee that the 50% reprints of M19 will overlap with cards we already have in PQ. Those that do will most likely be from sets that have rotated from standard already.

If it turns out that there are too many cards in M19 that already exist in PQ, they could potentially go back to paper cards which never made it into their PQ sets. Like Gitrog Monster and Bygone Bishop from SOI. Those could be added to the game and put into the M19 packs instead of SOI. All this is assuming they are even allowed to do something like that based on their license agreement.

We'll just have to wait and see what is actually in M19 and how big the overlap is. If you look back to M15, none of the nine non-PW mythics in that set exist in this game and all of them were printed in M15 for the very first time. As for the rares, only 5 out of 53 of those cards were reprinted in a set that exists in this game and those are the 5 enemy colored gem converters from origins. 37 of those rares were brand new cards at the time of their printing in M15. Based on that, it is safe to say we will be getting M19 and we will be getting mostly, if not all, new cards. 

wereotter

ZW2007- said:

wereotter said:

Gunmix25 said:

Anyways, the next set release beyond Dominaria is Core 2019 in July... which I suspect will be late July when the PQ version is released. Approximately 2 months later; about 1 month past Dominaria being introduced to Crafting. 

Not to derail things here, but now that we've gotten our first taste of what's being printed in Core 2019, I'm starting to wonder if it will be integrated into the game at all. Of the 18 cards already known to be in the set, 7 exist in Puzzle Quest already:

Act of Treason
Anticipate
Cancel
Disperse
Mighty Leap
Tormenting Voice
Sure Strike

With such a small number of cards we can anticipate coming available, it'll be difficult to say just how that set gets handled.

Only some of those cards are still standard legal because they are in Origins. The rest there would be no problem in reimplementing them in M19 because it would put them back into standard, which is the entire purpose of reprints.

Act of Treason is ORI.
Anticipate is BFZ.
Cancel is AKH
Disperse is ORI
Mighty Leap is ORI
Tormenting Voice is SOI
Sure Strike is BFZ.

There is also no guarantee that the 50% reprints of M19 will overlap with cards we already have in PQ. Those that do will most likely be from sets that have rotated from standard already.

If it turns out that there are too many cards in M19 that already exist in PQ, they could potentially go back to paper cards which never made it into their PQ sets. Like Gitrog Monster and Bygone Bishop from SOI. Those could be added to the game and put into the M19 packs instead of SOI. All this is assuming they are even allowed to do something like that based on their license agreement.

We'll just have to wait and see what is actually in M19 and how big the overlap is. If you look back to M15, none of the nine non-PW mythics in that set exist in this game and all of them were printed in M15 for the very first time. As for the rares, only 5 out of 53 of those cards were reprinted in a set that exists in this game and those are the 5 enemy colored gem converters from origins. 37 of those rares were brand new cards at the time of their printing in M15. Based on that, it is safe to say we will be getting M19 and we will be getting mostly, if not all, new cards. 

We've already seen how PQ handles reprints for cards not in standard, and that is to ignore them entirely. Tormenting Voice, for example, was also printed in the paper set of Amonkhet, but ignored here and was not made standard legal, and we saw a similar situation with Stone Quarry, Highland Lake, Foul Orchard, and Forsaken Sanctuary all being in the paper set for Rivals of Ixalan, but again not made standard legal. That as a history, it's safe to assume that whatever reprints exist in Core 2019, the cards will not be made standard legal here, and will not be included in packs for the set.

The potential for overlap, as far as we've seen so far, means that a large chunk of the commons at least will be cards that already exist in the game, which will provide a challenge for them to translate it into gameplay, especially as they tend to upshift card rarities rather than downshift them. (Hostage Taker, for example is a rare in paper magic, and a mythic here). So it's more a question of will there even be enough cards to make a full set from?

Kinesia

The challenge with reprints is that it requires a database schema change rather than anything small, so it's a HUGE amount of work, BUT it's completely necessary for the future of the game. Reprints are too widespread in paper magic to continue to be ignored here. It's already bitten them in Ixalan and it's going to get worse and worse, so it's a change they need to make.

But it's a huge amount of work because currently all the cards are in their database like:

Name

Cost

Set

etc

And the set part needs to be totally reworked. Making it an arbitrary list inside the database record has problems.

And _when_ they change the way they do this they have to go through the whole game and change the way the logic works for every single thing that refers to Set.

This is not an easy or cheap thing at all but it's needed and now is the obvious and logical time to do it.

morgue427

wait a bit if you have to but make it work as well as possible from the start, someone will always complain but if most think as i do wont hear to much from us.

DBJones

Actually, unless they change the way they do standard and legacy, or add more types of restrictions, there's an easy possibility. Just change any reprinted card to the newest set it's part of. I'm pretty sure the way they do boosters would allow the cards to stay in the boosters for each set they're part of in paper, and the only other thing I can think of is increased crafting cost, which probably should happen anyway.

ertaii

Kinesia said:

The challenge with reprints is that it requires a database schema change rather than anything small, so it's a HUGE amount of work, BUT it's completely necessary for the future of the game. Reprints are too widespread in paper magic to continue to be ignored here. It's already bitten them in Ixalan and it's going to get worse and worse, so it's a change they need to make.

But it's a huge amount of work because currently all the cards are in their database like:

Name

Cost

Set

etc

And the set part needs to be totally reworked. Making it an arbitrary list inside the database record has problems.

And _when_ they change the way they do this they have to go through the whole game and change the way the logic works for every single thing that refers to Set.

This is not an easy or cheap thing at all but it's needed and now is the obvious and logical time to do it.

You can easily add an "absolute reference" on each card in the database. If you have a reprint in a newer set, it will share the same absolute reference as the original card, while having its own uuid. Then you only have to display cards by distinct absolute reference (while applying event filters before that, and user filters after that) on the deck building screen. That should do the trick while being easier to implement.

Kinesia

Thanks @ertaii . I very much like how technical many of the players are here, leads to more interesting discussions often.