Thanks for supports...

n25philly

So much better than actually doing something about all the cover waste.  My 4/5/0 Yondu with three covers wasting on the vine are especially thankful.  With me needing so many covers in so many covers it amazes me how 90% of my 4* pulls are complete waste.  Looking forward to the next unneeded new feature!

Jonny1Punch

I actually completely agree. Supports are the most underwhelming and unnecessary feature I’ve ever seen rolled out. Meanwhile things we actually ask for like Buffs/rebalances to older 5*, gambit nerfs, duplicate cover fixes/better pull rates & mmr tweaks etc go totally ignored. Extremely disappointing they are so out of touch with the needs of the player base.

n25philly

I don't have a problem with supports actually, it's just I wish more important things would be address first or at least as well.  As someone who typically gets 3-4 4* covers a week, having 7 dying on the vine is ridiculous.  The 100o iso is useless if there is never anything to spend it on because you only get unusable covers

Borstock

1: if most of the covers you're pulling are wasted, you should be hoarding

2: who wants supports to break the game? Treat them like boosts. They assist only.

n25philly

Borstock said:

1: if most of the covers you're pulling are wasted, you should be hoarding

2: who wants supports to break the game? Treat them like boosts. They assist only.

Hoard for what?  I have 11 4* champed and most others poorly covered.  I guess it's my fault the stupid rng keeps gives me the same handful of useless covers.  It would be one thing if I have most things covered and didn't have the iso to level them or something, but no, I just keep pulling black yondus, green or black punishers (seriously, are his blue covers even in the game, my 5/5/0 punisher that I've sold like 20 useless covers for wants to know) or purple professor x.

Borstock

Ideally, with only 11 champed 4* characters, you probably should be hoarding until you have enough iso to champ two or three 4* at a time. So if you have 1 mil iso and had to waste 20 covers then feel free to take your v lap as the unluckiest player in the game. Otherwise, you should probably be hoarding. 

n25philly

Borstock said:

Ideally, with only 11 champed 4* characters, you probably should be hoarding until you have enough iso to champ two or three 4* at a time. So if you have 1 mil iso and had to waste 20 covers then feel free to take your v lap as the unluckiest player in the game. Otherwise, you should probably be hoarding. 

I am unlucky.  At the moment I have about a half mil iso.  Most of the 11 champs I have were finished off by spending 120 cp to stop a cover from dying on the vine.  When I keep getting stuff where I don't even have one of a color cp does no good either.

JHawkInc

They're never going to "fix" waste because the pressure of waste encourages spending. If you don't want to spend, you need to practice better resource management (which generally means hoarding until you can brute force the problem, whether it's buying missing covers outright or opening enough tokens to "guarantee" you get them).

It's a fundamental part of the free to play model, and it isn't going away.

shadowyoshi

All of the talk here about resource management is true. And none of it applies to a guy with a half a million iso and 5/5/0 characters.

That's not to say there aren't some things he could be doing better, but if RNG blesses you with 5/5/0, you aren't doing anything but wasting at least a few further covers on that character barring extreme luck.

Jarvind

Sometimes you end up with a suck build and there's nothing you can do about it. I sold six or seven purple Mockingbirds before I got her covered. Did I enjoy it? No. Did I eventually get the covers I needed and move on? Yep.

Now read this next part carefully:

They. Are. Never. Going. To. Change. This.

People have been suggesting colorless covers for as long as I've been here, which is closing in on three years. It's not going to happen. This situation prompts purchases from people with poor impulse control. And people with poor impulse control are pretty much what fuels the entire Free-to-Play market. I'll let you do the math there.

Either make peace with it, or find something else to play. Steam sales are a hell of a thing.

HoundofShadow

Even with colourless covers, you still get wasted covers because your iso-8 would be drained up. I think we could have a sub-forum to let posters vent their frustration and post their snide remarks?

marshall

I'll second or third the recommendations above. I only got over the insane amount of wasted covers by rationing opening tokens. The way the distribution works is that you are likely to go from no characters at 13 covers to 20 getting max covers at the same time.

If you hoard, you can be smart about which ones you are trying to cover with bonus heroes as well. That's how I managed to finish my 2/5/5 R&G 4* back then, had about 8 covers in the vine due to incredibly bad luck.

maguirenumber6

I think the advantage of having supports will be seen in the near future after we've all managed to level them up a bit

CNash

I think that the cynics in this thread are largely right; that the devs are never going to address the problem of wasted covers, because from their perspective it's not a problem - it's a feature. Like almost everything to do with monetization, they never, ever talk about it on the forum (or anywhere else).

However, I'd argue that we have not one but two pressure-based resource management puzzles: cover spread, and ISO gathering. You need both to make characters usable. So my suggestion - as futile as it seems to make - is that losing one of these systems might not be such a big deal. By all means, allow players to build up their 13 covers in a more linear, progression-based fashion. ISO will still be the ultimate gatekeeper.

Borstock

shadowyoshi said:

All of the talk here about resource management is true. And none of it applies to a guy with a half a million iso and 5/5/0 characters.

That's not to say there aren't some things he could be doing better, but if RNG blesses you with 5/5/0, you aren't doing anything but wasting at least a few further covers on that character barring extreme luck.

He didn't say he wasted a few. He said 20. I don't even think I've wasted 20 the entire time I've been playing, let alone recently. With BH, his willingness to spend 120CPs to get the last cover, and proper hoarding, you have to be one of the unluckiest players in the game to flat out waste ~400CPs in short order. I'm not saying it's impossible. Clearly, statistically, it is very possible. And I'm not calling him a liar. But damn, that's rough.

broll

n25philly said:

So much better than actually doing something about all the cover waste.  My 4/5/0 Yondu with three covers wasting on the vine are especially thankful.  With me needing so many covers in so many covers it amazes me how 90% of my 4* pulls are complete waste.  Looking forward to the next unneeded new feature!

Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice shame on me.

If you're continually pulling when 90% of your covers are going to waste, then you're shooting yourself in the foot...  Learn to hoard, learn to save HP for H4H, and vaults, be smart with BHs.  There are tons of ways to avoid cover waste in the 4* tier at this point, more than I would have expected them to do.  I've nearly completed all of the 4* tier at this point and I think my total wasted covers was under 50, because I played smart rather than letting the game play me by continually mindlessly pulling a slot machine lever.

n25philly

Jarvind said:

Sometimes you end up with a suck build and there's nothing you can do about it. I sold six or seven purple Mockingbirds before I got her covered. Did I enjoy it? No. Did I eventually get the covers I needed and move on? Yep.

Now read this next part carefully:

They. Are. Never. Going. To. Change. This.

People have been suggesting colorless covers for as long as I've been here, which is closing in on three years. It's not going to happen. This situation prompts purchases from people with poor impulse control. And people with poor impulse control are pretty much what fuels the entire Free-to-Play market. I'll let you do the math there.

Either make peace with it, or find something else to play. Steam sales are a hell of a thing.

What I don't get is why they can't do something smart though.  I understand not doing colorless covers.  Why not have a system where you can spend resources to change the cover.  Get a useless 4*, change the color of it for 500 hp.  Still needs resources to do it so it's not going to kill sales.  Or hell, why not ad 2cp to the sell price so when you do end up having to sell them it doesn't feel like a complete waste.

broll

n25philly said:

Jarvind said:

Sometimes you end up with a suck build and there's nothing you can do about it. I sold six or seven purple Mockingbirds before I got her covered. Did I enjoy it? No. Did I eventually get the covers I needed and move on? Yep.

Now read this next part carefully:

They. Are. Never. Going. To. Change. This.

People have been suggesting colorless covers for as long as I've been here, which is closing in on three years. It's not going to happen. This situation prompts purchases from people with poor impulse control. And people with poor impulse control are pretty much what fuels the entire Free-to-Play market. I'll let you do the math there.

Either make peace with it, or find something else to play. Steam sales are a hell of a thing.

What I don't get is why they can't do something smart though.  I understand not doing colorless covers.  Why not have a system where you can spend resources to change the cover.  Get a useless 4*, change the color of it for 500 hp.  Still needs resources to do it so it's not going to kill sales.  Or hell, why not ad 2cp to the sell price so when you do end up having to sell them it doesn't feel like a complete waste.

They have inched towards that already.  H4H often (if not always) give you an offer for the cover you need at 3600 HP if you get an unusable cover and are 1 cover away from 13.  This saved me at least 4 times.  I don't believe you get the offer in cases where you have a 5/5/0 for example though, you would get it on a 5/5/2.

Straycat

Wow, blast from the past. Maybe complain that they release characters too often and too many variants too? At this point you gotta realize cover waste is a feature, not a bug.
But for real, hoard and then document your pulls and see if you are really wasting 9 of every 10 tokens.

Hadronic

I made this so folks could look up how rare it is to waste covers on certain builds using tokens alone

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Jx4p2YF0GeVqzT_OvlMjawp-JlLEfV_FLsvfokhG_Oc/edit#gid=46011808

with a 5/5/0 you should expect to waste 6 +/- 4.25 covers

wasting 20 covers will happen with a chance of about 1 in 4000. Pretty rare but when thousands of people play the game it occurs. Sorry it was you.

GrimSkald

Waste is a part of the game, I'm afraid.  I've been tracking my 4* cover waste since about Wasp (introduced to the game 7/31/16, so probably around September to November as it was harder to finish characters until the "Latest" dominated tokens.)  She's my highest current one at 4 wasted covers, though Rocket and Groot probably would have been higher as I ended up with a 2/13/7 draw and just gave up and spent CP.  Some of those 10 covers probably wouldn't have been wasted since I think I did draw a blue afterward sometime, but I think at least 5 of them would have been burned.

Total, I've wasted 24 covers since I've started tracking.  Most of the time it's just 1 or 2, though I suspect both BP and Shuri are going to be hard since they are both started at some variant of 1/5/5...