Do you want supports in PVP?

Tony_FootTony_Foot Posts: 1,083 Chairperson of the Boards
Cool they are in PVE but do you want them in PVP, Devs indicated this in the intention on PW3 podcast. They also indicated the intention they would be used on defence as well as attack.

Do you want supports in PVP? 172 votes

SandmakerscotteePhumadeacescrackedejmusmpqr7fork1977TrilateralusaesthetocystBasepuzzlerOver__FlowDukeUpdatelongswordMrCroaker64ntcplantersCalnexinevade420Pants1000broll[Deleted User] 30 votes
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Not bothered either way
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  • venyveny Posts: 834 Critical Contributor
    I am not playing PvP, and support (at current state) would be just another reason why not to start.
    They are hidden behind a paywall and they would only multiply the problems caused by 5*s in PvP.
    Plus i cant imagine how matchmaking would work (well, i can imagine and all possibilites are terrible).
  • fmftintfmftint Posts: 3,653 Chairperson of the Boards
    They'd have to treat them like TUs imo, limited to one,  random equipped, and base level (rank 1-5, level 1)
  • venyveny Posts: 834 Critical Contributor
    fmftint said:
    They'd have to treat them like TUs imo, limited to one,  random equipped, and base level (rank 1-5, level 1)
    Funny, this could be actually good for PvP. With win-based progression system, it would boost the attackers without punishing you, as the defender. That would eventually make PvP less anoying.
  • PhumadePhumade Posts: 1,946 Chairperson of the Boards
    Yes the supports will make a big difference in how the match plays out.  But we need a better implementation.  Supports are powerful enough, that we need them detailed before we accept a match.

    I.e.  Thorbit with Max level Korg and max level chimichanga/pizza dog would be an automatic skip vs just

    Thorbit by itself.

    At the minimum, we need to see how support information would be displayed prior to entering a match
  • brollbroll Posts: 4,731 Chairperson of the Boards
    They seem kinda pointless to me if they’re not put into PvP. 
  • purplemurpurplemur Posts: 376 Mover and Shaker
    On the player side: yes!
    AI on Defense: NO!
  • bluewolfbluewolf Posts: 4,910 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited April 2018
    I said no, but I am cautiously accepting on offense only... However, the devs on the Puzzle Warriors 3 podcast interview this week (which any serious player should listen to) said that they fully intend to bring Supports into PVP on both offense and defense, but need to figure out a way to implement a display of the Supports.

    This concerns me.  Will all this be obvious on the fight screen?
    1.  Which characters have which supports equipped
    2.  What Support ranks are unlocked
    3.  What level the Supports are taken to

    AND I remember what each darn Support does once there are "hundreds" of them - or I have to click into each one to remind myself?  

    The match screen on my phone is already pretty crowded.  The Health text is already barely legible for each character, although you could probably lose the "Chance to win!" cover which we almost never win anyway.

    If it's not on the screen, I'm clicking into each character and there's some new screen showing their Support?

    It sounds like a nightmare when I'm trying to quickly climb which avoiding being hit (too much or at all).  I don't need to be triple assessing each team while I'm climbing or doing a hop.  (Do I want to hit this player?  Can I hit this team quickly enough?  What will their Supports do to change my outcome?)  

    If this is not implemented right, players will get mighty upset.  If you aren't careful, your loss rate could be a lot higher.  Maybe there's some additional structural change to PVP to go along with it, but the current game design doesn't reward slowing down opponent selection, which is probably the main effect of adding Supports to PVP.  

    The one positive right now is:  Supports can slightly overcome shortcomings (my Gambit is 4/5/3 and could use extra red and purple).  So it could make more teams viable and shake up the meta.
  • PhumadePhumade Posts: 1,946 Chairperson of the Boards
    If we are really talking about redesigning the pvp interface.  My biggest suggestions is

    1.  Some sort of Interstitial that tells us before starting the match (for both selected teams)

    1a.  color order for each char and match damage (bonus if it highlights the biggest color/match number on each side)
    1b.  Any supports that are equipped and the Rank / level
    1c.  Any Tus that are equippped.

    2  Would be great if you could also see what ap/ tu you bring.

    Basically I just want an easy summary screen so I can double check that I've got correct colors/ right supports/ correct boosts etc. maybe its an on screen toggle like the ap tray.
  • CalnexinCalnexin Posts: 1,078 Chairperson of the Boards
    Yes, but if they're going to be used fairly they should impact MMR.  And I really would like them to put a graphical representation of equipped supports on the team preview, like a picture-in-picture on the character portraits.  It shouldn't be all that long before people are aware of what they do, just like they're aware of what characters are capable of, but clicking through someone's roster to make a decision would be onerous.
  • MichaelclesMichaelcles Age Unconfirmed Posts: 100 Tile Toppler
    No - this is just another gimmick to get players to spend real money on something that wasn’t asked for.  If they cared about their customers they would address issues that have been a problem for YEARS.
  • wymtimewymtime Posts: 3,469 Chairperson of the Boards
    I am saying no for the way the devs described it on the puzzle warriors podcast where the support was live on defense.  If it was just an offensive boost I would probably be ok if it was then removed for the AI.  
    First of all I think players need to figure out which supports are really worth leveling and at what level do they make a difference.  Right now at low levels for CL9 players the support is basically useless.  Now one we get some of these supports to 250 they might let you punch above your weight class a little bit in PVP.  If supports are allow d on deffense though the support the AI has will neutralize any benifit the player is getting.  I say no for now, but will keep an open mind
  • HoundofShadowHoundofShadow Posts: 3,256 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited April 2018
    It's too early to tell, but it would definitely be game changing for sure. Currently, everyone goes into each match knowing whether they can beat the opposing team with close to 100% accuracy by looking at the composition and levels of the opposing team. Therefore, I think we shouldn't be allowed to see what supports are equipped by the opposing team. It allows some element of surprise who thinks that this is an easy team to pick on and ends up losing the match. This would also force the players to re-strategise on the spot. 
  • PongiePongie Posts: 1,332 Chairperson of the Boards
    Haven't voted yet but you can basically assume that if it means I have an advantage then Yes. Otherwise, if I'm disadvantaged, then No. Really depends on what you pull and how well it gels with your team.
  • CoubiiCoubii Posts: 133 Tile Toppler
    If support is available but opponent never have access to them, I'm 100% okay for support. Otherwise, and specially without a clean display of opponent support, I'm strongly against.
  • Srheer0Srheer0 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 8 Just Dropped In
    Supports in PVP would make the game unfair to those not willing to buy the packs with support tokens in. 
    I chose no.
  • mpqr7mpqr7 Posts: 2,642 Chairperson of the Boards
    Yes, on attack. Not on defense! I get clobbered by better teams all the time on defense, so me having supports will not prevent teams from clobbering me.

    But it's very hard for me to win on offense already! If I have to face teams with strong supports, then it will be even harder for me! My supports will all be 1*, level 10, and theirs will all be 5*s, level 250 immediately! I play casually in the whale / advanced division.
  • PenniesForEveryonePenniesForEveryone Posts: 294 Mover and Shaker
    Not bothered either way
    Either way.  They would certainly be more useful in PvP since I could actually use the additional AP from Supports.
  • NeonBlueNeonBlue Posts: 142 Tile Toppler
    No. Not until they change the way MMR works to reflect the new supports. Two players with the exact same teams but with different degrees of supports equipped are not equivalent in power. I would not want to fight a 3* team with my 3* team and get murdered by insane match damage, AP generation, or sustain from someone whose team has equal power to a champed 4* team.

    This would give the devs a chance to tweak the MMR formula some more into something more representative and encompassing. Perhaps establish a "Might" system they have in other games where your total power is determined by a confluence of different factors, including not only top levels of your roster, but also their tier (e.g. 3* or 4*), and their number of covers. Maybe this will alleviate the MMR bind of those newer players who rostered a 5* and don't realize the consequences.
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