Sick of bad objectives

ZW2007-

This kind of **** shouldn't happen. He started that turn with no creatures in play. His Adanto converted gems to white and popped my sphinx's decree for about the 40th time that fight. It also triggered an activate gem making a 2/2. The proceeding cascade also triggered an activate gem making it a 4/4. He then used his ability to reinforce it once making it a 5/5. Then he cast Pride of Conquerors to buff it another +1/+1 making it a 6/6, just big enough to get killed by his own Slaughter the Strong and I didn't even have a creature in play. Two turns later almost the exact same thing happened, he got a vampire above 6/6  that didn't exist during my turn and proceeded to slaughter it, all in the same turn. He killed 4 of his own creatures this way. It's like you want me to just play cycling for every **** fight.

Edit: This is 4.1 in Battle of the Four Tribes; Mavren Fein. Objectives are to kill 2 or less and take 40 damage.

Sirchombli

You've got some bad luck there. I've fought him twice so far and zero creatures have died. The objective is annoying, but this is more an issue of Greg being a proper moron. 5.3 loves to merc it's own creatures, too .

Skiglass6

I do not mind any of the objectives in BoFT. It adds complexity to deck building. It is not just put the most broke combo you have and destroy everything. Specifically for the 4.1 node I put a card in my deck that I have never used before and probably won’t use in any other deck. But I know what opp has available and plan accordingly.

Now of course there are going to be times when everything falls into place and you are going to get unlucky.  But it is only a couple of ribbons out of the quite large pool.  This probably is not going to keep you from progression and probably will not affect your coalitions ranking. If the objective is that difficult to obtain then the majority of the players will have trouble making. 

I currenty have a secondary that has eluded me so far (without using cycle).  That doesn’t make me want to come here to complain about it. It makes me think about why my current deck just isn’t cutting it and how I can possibly change it. Maybe I need to try different plan of attack, or different PW. So If you look at your deck and say “this deck is perfect against 4.1”, then you just got unlucky. At least losing 2 ribbons doesn’t drop you to 50th place like the last event I had. 

DBJones

Bad luck can trash your chance at most of the objectives, this is just a particularly annoying example. I am getting tired of the same objectives over and over though, Oktagon hasn't added any new ones and both their events use several of the most annoying objectives.

Bil

  I understand the frustration it can generate but i would say thats its not such a big deal to miss 3 points once in a while in BOFT... Things would be very diferent if it was RTO ...
  However, it is always a bad things when there is nothing you could have done to avoid the loss of points.

rafalele

ZW2007- said:

This kind of tinykitty shouldn't happen. He started that turn with no creatures in play. His Adanto converted gems to white and popped my sphinx's decree for about the 40th time that fight. It also triggered an activate gem making a 2/2. The proceeding cascade also triggered an activate gem making it a 4/4. He then used his ability to reinforce it once making it a 5/5. Then he cast Pride of Conquerors to buff it another +1/+1 making it a 6/6, just big enough to get killed by his own Slaughter the Strong and I didn't even have a creature in play. Two turns later almost the exact same thing happened, he got a vampire above 6/6  that didn't exist during my turn and proceeded to slaughter it, all in the same turn. He killed 4 of his own creatures this way. It's like you want me to just play cycling for every tinykitty fight.

Edit: This is 4.1 in Battle of the Four Tribes; Mavren Fein. Objectives are to kill 2 or less and take 40 damage.

I am with you.

First time I played this event in this node it did to me just once, but in this second time, every battle in node 4.1 it kills it's own creatures and count them as if I have killed it.

I think this is a bug, I have kill no creatures.

bk1234

I agree with your frustration. I went through the trouble to build an excellent no-kill deck for that node only to lose the objective because he killed 6 of his creatures. Objectives should be tough and require thought and clever deckbuilding. They should never be unobtainable because of the opponent deck.  

Kinesia

It's not the opponent's deck as such, it's a bug in targeting, he shouldn't be doing it.

(Unless Greg got pissed off that they neutered his brain and he's _deliberately_ killing them because he knows the objectives too and is taking them into account...)

Brakkis

Skiglass6 said:

I do not mind any of the objectives in BoFT. It adds complexity to deck building. It is not just put the most broke combo you have and destroy everything. Specifically for the 4.1 node I put a card in my deck that I have never used before and probably won’t use in any other deck. But I know what opp has available and plan accordingly.

Now of course there are going to be times when everything falls into place and you are going to get unlucky.  But it is only a couple of ribbons out of the quite large pool.  This probably is not going to keep you from progression and probably will not affect your coalitions ranking. If the objective is that difficult to obtain then the majority of the players will have trouble making. 

I currenty have a secondary that has eluded me so far (without using cycle).  That doesn’t make me want to come here to complain about it. It makes me think about why my current deck just isn’t cutting it and how I can possibly change it. Maybe I need to try different plan of attack, or different PW. So If you look at your deck and say “this deck is perfect against 4.1”, then you just got unlucky. At least losing 2 ribbons doesn’t drop you to 50th place like the last event I had. 

Nothing you have said here excuses objectives being bad when they are based purely on luck. There are a myriad of decks you can build for 4.1 that shut him own, shut down his creatures, and remove them from play without killing them. Every single one of those decks can fail because he can, and occasionally does, cascade out a big enough creature that he can kill it in the same turn with his own spell.

Kinesia said:

It's not the opponent's deck as such, it's a bug in targeting, he shouldn't be doing it.

(Unless Greg got pissed off that they neutered his brain and he's _deliberately_ killing them because he knows the objectives too and is taking them into account...)

 Slaughter the Strong isn't targeted. It's a field wide kill of anything with a power of 6 or higher.

Skiglass6

Brakkis said:

Skiglass6 said:

I do not mind any of the objectives in BoFT. It adds complexity to deck building. It is not just put the most broke combo you have and destroy everything. Specifically for the 4.1 node I put a card in my deck that I have never used before and probably won’t use in any other deck. But I know what opp has available and plan accordingly.

Now of course there are going to be times when everything falls into place and you are going to get unlucky.  But it is only a couple of ribbons out of the quite large pool.  This probably is not going to keep you from progression and probably will not affect your coalitions ranking. If the objective is that difficult to obtain then the majority of the players will have trouble making. 

I currenty have a secondary that has eluded me so far (without using cycle).  That doesn’t make me want to come here to complain about it. It makes me think about why my current deck just isn’t cutting it and how I can possibly change it. Maybe I need to try different plan of attack, or different PW. So If you look at your deck and say “this deck is perfect against 4.1”, then you just got unlucky. At least losing 2 ribbons doesn’t drop you to 50th place like the last event I had. 

Nothing you have said here excuses objectives being bad when they are based purely on luck. There are a myriad of decks you can build for 4.1 that shut him own, shut down his creatures, and remove them from play without killing them. Every single one of those decks can fail because he can, and occasionally does, cascade out a big enough creature that he can kill it in the same turn with his own spell.

Kinesia said:

It's not the opponent's deck as such, it's a bug in targeting, he shouldn't be doing it.

(Unless Greg got pissed off that they neutered his brain and he's _deliberately_ killing them because he knows the objectives too and is taking them into account...)

 Slaughter the Strong isn't targeted. It's a field wide kill of anything with a power of 6 or higher.

Keep the board clean. Run discard.  Increase cost of  opps cards. Defend against the spell. So I say not pure luck. I haven’t missed the objective yet and I have defend against the spell 3 times in one battle. Sure next time I play against I may have bad luck and miss it but I wouldn’t say pure luck. 

Gilesclone

Cycle.  Win before he gets enough creatures down to lose the objective.

That said, I hate objectives like this.

Brakkis

Skiglass6 said:

Keep the board clean. Run discard.  Increase cost of  opps cards. Defend against the spell. So I say not pure luck. I haven’t missed the objective yet and I have defend against the spell 3 times in one battle. Sure next time I play against I may have bad luck and miss it but I wouldn’t say pure luck. 

So, because you haven't yet lost the objective, luck isn't a factor? You do realize that is, by definition, luck, right? Because it's possible to fail it even when designed not to, and you have not yet failed it, you have been "lucky".



Here we have a heavy discard deck for this node. It's got bounce and cost increase with Harbinger and some exile for the token vamps. It's almost all about keeping him from having any cards in his hand to cast.

This deck has failed the objective.



Here we have a deck all about exile, bounce, and cost increase of the AI's cards. It's running 2 cards meant to shut down spells as well. You can (and I have) sub out one of those 2 for either Baffling End to exile tokens easier, or a gem converter to aid Mizzium.

This deck has failed the objective.

 and 

Let us not forget the ever available "Cycle me Senpai!" decks.

These have both failed the objective.

"But how could they have failed the objective!? They are designed to not kill any creatures, to exile everything, to prevent spells from being cast, to increase the cost of the AI's cards in hand, to discard those cards, to cycle into oblivion! Everything here should work to win the node and earn that objective!"

Because the AI can kill his own creatures, and the AI can cascade enough mana to play creatures, buff creatures, and kill them in a single turn. It can do so while you are unable to get a decent gem match to remove a token, or when it cascades away both of your anti-spell cards or simply removes the Sphinx's Decree and plays two spells to get past Jace's Defeat.

The objective is luck based. You can build decks to deal with it effectively, but you can not build decks that stop bad luck.

wereotter

The objective really should be tracking who controlled the effect that killed the creature. If you killed it by smashing into a creature with a defensive buff or using berserker, or if you cast a spell or used an ability to kill a creature, then count it. If the AI kills its own creature, then technically you didn’t kill those creatures, per the stated terms of the objective, and it shouldn’t count. 

Brakkis

wereotter said:

The objective really should be tracking who controlled the effect that killed the creature. If you killed it by smashing into a creature with a defensive buff or using berserker, or if you cast a spell or used an ability to kill a creature, then count it. If the AI kills its own creature, then technically you didn’t kill those creatures, per the stated terms of the objective, and it shouldn’t count. 

That would be the most effective solution to the problem of this node, and similar objectives of this manner. I concur that this should be implemented.

babar3355

Perhaps you should have put your Sphinx's Decree in a different spot Zach...

Coilbox

Gideon's defeat man, GIDEONS DEFEAT! Having starfield is a must to have Gideon's defeat. It doesn't kill creatures, it exiles them, also, if you play black and white with Sorin, put doomfall in.
I played that node with Bolas: Doomfall, Claustrophobia, Lay Claim and a few cards to cycle with New Perspectives make that node pretty easy...

ZW2007-

Gideon's defeat was in there. Along with Ixalan's binding. He literally blew up multiple supports per turn. The Sphinx's Decree that got popped in the screenshot was just returned by Starfield on my previous turn. It was a 3-4 stack of Decree (the one that popped was obviously a single shield, there were 3-4 Decrees in my graveyard though so it was stuck bringing those back.)

[Deleted User]

I used a beckett creature stealing deck, 3ish forms of bounce for his vigilance vamp and jaces defeat. It took a while but had to get creative and this far found it to be the most effective.

Grixis197

I hate most of the objectives always the same kinda ones, they should bring objectives that are related to the set like create a number of treasures, try to get City’s Blessing by a certain turn, really want to see new objectives for once

DumasAG

Grixis197 said:

I hate most of the objectives always the same kinda ones, they should bring objectives that are related to the set like create a number of treasures, try to get City’s Blessing by a certain turn, really want to see new objectives for once

I'm pretty sure literally everyone wants this. I'm also pretty sure nobody is ever going to take the time to do it. Which is a bummer, because that'd be cool (although cue all the people who will be forced to play tribes instead of cycling, I guess?)

Mburn7

DumasAG said:

Grixis197 said:

I hate most of the objectives always the same kinda ones, they should bring objectives that are related to the set like create a number of treasures, try to get City’s Blessing by a certain turn, really want to see new objectives for once

I'm pretty sure literally everyone wants this. I'm also pretty sure nobody is ever going to take the time to do it. Which is a bummer, because that'd be cool (although cue all the people who will be forced to play tribes instead of cycling, I guess?)

I don't think there is a single person who enjoys cycling.  And we're going to be forced to play all the Ixalan stuff anyway, why not reward us for doing it now?

I miss the old Terrors objectives.  Simple, clean, and fun to build around (if a tad sub-optimal)