Change The Event End Times

System

This discussion was created from comments split from: EVENT End time PROBLEM.

ILikePancakes

Yup. My recharge is midnight and the event ends at 6 in the morning. Why? Just make all charges available at the beginning of the event so people can play nodes whenever they can until the event ends. 

Pavorus

I just wish they would leave 16 or more hours from the last charge. If they would do that the end time would hardly matter. 

Gilesclone

Pavorus said:

I just wish they would leave 16 or more hours from the last charge. If they would do that the end time would hardly matter. 

I’ve been saying this for months.  6 hours at the end means somebody has to finish in the middle of the night and somebody else is playing at work.  If they give us at least 12 hours we can finish when it works where we live. 

DumasAG

Gilesclone said:

Pavorus said:

I just wish they would leave 16 or more hours from the last charge. If they would do that the end time would hardly matter. 

I’ve been saying this for months.  6 hours at the end means somebody has to finish in the middle of the night and somebody else is playing at work.  If they give us at least 12 hours we can finish when it works where we live. 

giving 12 hours at the end of events seems like the right choice to me. Maybe having to wait an extra 12 hours will teach a little patience?

The other option as far as I can see is to divide up event pools by time zone and stagger the event start times, but I highly doubt the playerbase is large enough for something like that.

ZW2007-

I think there are two reasons why we don't get extra time at the end of an event:

1.) Node refreshes are programmed to automatically happen at certain intervals, if the even was just extended by 12 hours, they would need to figure out how to program it so that refreshes stop happening at a certain point while the event continues to exist. A simple solution would be to eliminate refreshes in general but they seem to be against this idea, probably something to do with player engagement blah blah blah. If I get 8 charges per node, I'll still spend the same amount of time playing those 8 charges. Odds are I'll enjoy it even more if I can do it whenever works best for me within an event window.

2.) Extending the end times of events leaves less time in between events for player movement within coalitions. This could be solved with a little tweaking of current event lengths (number of recharges really) and with the weekly scheduling of coalition events but with the current system, we sometimes only have two hours in between a coalition event ending and a new one starting.

That said, I totally agree that something needs to be changed. My coalition has players in almost every time zone across the globe so there is almost always someone getting the short straw with event end times.

DumasAG

ZW2007- said:

I think there are two reasons why we don't get extra time at the end of an event:

1.) Node refreshes are programmed to automatically happen at certain intervals, if the even was just extended by 12 hours, they would need to figure out how to program it so that refreshes stop happening at a certain point while the event continues to exist. A simple solution would be to eliminate refreshes in general but they seem to be against this idea, probably something to do with player engagement blah blah blah. If I get 8 charges per node, I'll still spend the same amount of time playing those 8 charges. Odds are I'll enjoy it even more if I can do it whenever works best for me within an event window.

2.) Extending the end times of events leaves less time in between events for player movement within coalitions. This could be solved with a little tweaking of current event lengths (number of recharges really) and with the weekly scheduling of coalition events but with the current system, we sometimes only have two hours in between a coalition event ending and a new one starting.

That said, I totally agree that something needs to be changed. My coalition has players in almost every time zone across the globe so there is almost always someone getting the short straw with event end times.

Maybe a solution to giving out all nodes at once while maintaining player engagement would be to give an extra bonus for the first three wins each day in a multi-day event? If you want, you can use all your nodes at once when the event starts, but you'll finish with 6 less points total. Or, you can wait and use your charges each day for the bonuses, but because all of the charges are already yours, you can use the ones you need for the day all at once. This keeps everyone playing each day (that are playing for rank), but also allows players to customize their playtime to fit their schedule.

Mburn7

DumasAG said:

Maybe a solution to giving out all nodes at once while maintaining player engagement would be to give an extra bonus for the first three wins each day in a multi-day event? If you want, you can use all your nodes at once when the event starts, but you'll finish with 6 less points total. Or, you can wait and use your charges each day for the bonuses, but because all of the charges are already yours, you can use the ones you need for the day all at once. This keeps everyone playing each day (that are playing for rank), but also allows players to customize their playtime to fit their schedule.

Interesting idea.  The all nodes at once idea has been proposed (and shot down) before, but I think this could be an acceptable compromise.  Especially now that the ranking system is fixed, the node recharge thing isn't as important to keep around

Kinesia

The problem with everything at once is that it'll work differently for different mindsets.

Some people will do everything straight away and then complain that there is nothing to do.
Some will think this is great! I'll get my work done and then finish later. And they'll end up missing out on playing everything because they actually _don't_ manage to manage their time well.
There are probably other possibilities too.

I think a few charges at the start, max of +3 (as they have just done) and then 12 hours at the end of the event will balance things for _most_ people.
I do recognise the problem of moving people between coalition events but I see that as something that the coalitions can adjust to rather than the game needing to solve.

Matthew

Kinesia said:

The problem with everything at once is that it'll work differently for different mindsets.

Some people will do everything straight away and then complain that there is nothing to do.
Some will think this is great! I'll get my work done and then finish later. And they'll end up missing out on playing everything because they actually _don't_ manage to manage their time well.
There are probably other possibilities too.

The two problems you jotted down here really don't sound like problems to me.

If someone gets everything done in the first hour of the event, then that's on them. There are other ways to play the game that don't involve a constant need of logging back in.

And if a player has real life get in the way, well...this is just a game after all. They ought to know that, and they ought to be able to account for that. Especially if they're in a competitive coalition. Furthermore, that completely overlooks the fact that (at least in my experience) most of the players in this community are entirely understanding of the fact that people have real-life obligations that sometimes get in the way.

Also, on a completely different note..........do you know you can just hit Ctrl + i (or Command + i on Apple) to toggle italics on and off? Much easier than doing the underscores if you ask me...

Kinesia

Grin. I _like_ my underscores.

As for the two problems... Psychologically this game has tricky lines to walk (like most F2P things) it needs to get people logging in regularly without overwhelming them, there needs to be something to do all the time, but not so much that other people feel they miss out on too much because they can't do it.

And _yes_ much of this is on the people playing, but the company needs to actually think of these things because the fringe cases of people who can't manage themselves at either end are still people the company wants to keep playing without getting too frustrated.

In my own life I already see the conflict, not quite as severe as I can see it being, but one person runs out of stuff to do and then gets bored while I have trouble fitting everything in, but mostly manage it.
HoD with 5 charges at the start is much harder for me than other events to do everything in, so I can see "all charges at start" leading to me playing less instead of more.

Matthew

Kinesia said:

Grin. I _like_ my underscores.

As for the two problems... Psychologically this game has tricky lines to walk (like most F2P things) it needs to get people logging in regularly without overwhelming them, there needs to be something to do all the time, but not so much that other people feel they miss out on too much because they can't do it.

And _yes_ much of this is on the people playing, but the company needs to actually think of these things because the fringe cases of people who can't manage themselves at either end are still people the company wants to keep playing without getting too frustrated.

In my own life I already see the conflict, not quite as severe as I can see it being, but one person runs out of stuff to do and then gets bored while I have trouble fitting everything in, but mostly manage it.
HoD with 5 charges at the start is much harder for me than other events to do everything in, so I can see "all charges at start" leading to me playing less instead of more.

On your first point, I think the answer to that is quite simple: just give us more events to play. I know for a fact they can handle as many as 7 concurrent events, because they did just that at one point over the holiday. More events means more opportunity for rewards, which should be enough of a motivator to keep a majority people logging in regularly.

Regarding your final paragraph, I'm having a hard time following the logic because there really just doesn't seem to be any. You say you have a difficult time managing HoD with 5 charges at the start...but that is under the current model, where you have a finite amount of time to complete those charges before you start losing out on the opportunity for more points. So how is it worse to start out with every single charge AND no recharge clock working against you? The version I've proposed literally minimizes as much as possible the impact that time should have on your ability to get through an event. It gives you two full 24-hour days to complete everything. I just don't understand how you can "mostly manage it" in an 8- or 16-hour window that demands your participation, but not in a 48-hour window that lets you play whenever you want.

Oh, and as an aside, I don't think the current amount of charges is what I would call ideal. They've been tip-toeing along the line of onerous for quite some time now. So basically, I think they need to drop the number of charges to something that feels like less of a slog, and give us every single charge as soon as the event drops.

I'll grant you that they need to worry about player retention. But we'll have to agree to disagree on the rest. I feel like there are better ways to keep players coming back than by spreading out the distribution of charges. More/better rewards, anyone??

Mainloop25

If they are worried about giving out too many free rewards with more daily events: I would rather see more events with slightly less rewards than less events with the rewards we are getting now. Without events to play, what do I need new cards for? To mess around in Training Grounds? Yawn. 

DBJones

An idea I liked the last time this came up was to change recharge times to 24 hours, with each recharge giving 3 or 4 battles depending on the event. That shouldn't require too much tweaking, and would allow up to 23 hours after the last recharge. It would also fix the issue of not having enough time to get through the initial charges. This would make the boss battle last charge issue worse, but I'd prefer they change those to lasting a fixed amount of time anyways.

Brigby

Matthew said:

Kinesia said:

Grin. I _like_ my underscores.

As for the two problems... Psychologically this game has tricky lines to walk (like most F2P things) it needs to get people logging in regularly without overwhelming them, there needs to be something to do all the time, but not so much that other people feel they miss out on too much because they can't do it.

And _yes_ much of this is on the people playing, but the company needs to actually think of these things because the fringe cases of people who can't manage themselves at either end are still people the company wants to keep playing without getting too frustrated.

In my own life I already see the conflict, not quite as severe as I can see it being, but one person runs out of stuff to do and then gets bored while I have trouble fitting everything in, but mostly manage it.
HoD with 5 charges at the start is much harder for me than other events to do everything in, so I can see "all charges at start" leading to me playing less instead of more.

On your first point, I think the answer to that is quite simple: just give us more events to play. I know for a fact they can handle as many as 7 concurrent events, because they did just that at one point over the holiday. More events means more opportunity for rewards, which should be enough of a motivator to keep a majority people logging in regularly.

-snip-

That brings up an interesting psychological conundrum though. 

In my personal opinion, more options is always better than less. Players like having that flexibility, so logically it makes sense to have a bunch of events available, and have the players decide which events they want to participate in.

What ends up happening though is that players see all these options, and instead think, "Oh man. I have to play in so many events! I don't know if I can do them all" This is particularly true when Coalition events are part of the schedule. There is this pressure to compete in as many events as possible, in order to acquire the max number of rewards as possible.

TL;DR: More events are seen, not as giving more flexibility in choices, but rather as lost resources due to limited time.

Kinesia

It's hard to work out exactly what I'm trying to say, but it's something along the lines of... 5 charges for HoD already looks completely daunting to face, I dread it. More... I'd find it hard to even touch the event.
It's the _only_ event that gives me that feeling. 5 nodes with 3 charges is less confrontational to me than 3 nodes with 5 charges, it's just psychology of some sort. I don't understand it really but it is how I feel.

DumasAG

Kinesia said:

It's hard to work out exactly what I'm trying to say, but it's something along the lines of... 5 charges for HoD already looks completely daunting to face, I dread it. More... I'd find it hard to even touch the event.
It's the _only_ event that gives me that feeling. 5 nodes with 3 charges is less confrontational to me than 3 nodes with 5 charges, it's just psychology of some sort. I don't understand it really but it is how I feel.

If I may speak for you to clarify... 

If you see a whole load of charges and know you're looking at hours of work, and you don't have time to do all of it right then and there, you may feel so overwhelmed that you put off playing until the theoretical later. If the overwhelmed feeling continues, you may continue procrastinating until you've completely run out of time to complete the event. In this case, the recharge system works as a motivator/relief rather than a source of anxiety.

Gilesclone

Perhaps they could show 3 and then when you finish those up to three more show up? Or would that be just as bad?

bk1234

Brigby said:

In my personal opinion, more options is always better than less. Players like having that flexibility, so logically it makes sense to have a bunch of events available, and have the players decide which events they want to participate in.

What ends up happening though is that players see all these options, and instead think, "Oh man. I have to play in so many events! I don't know if I can do them all" This is particularly true when Coalition events are part of the schedule. There is this pressure to compete in as many events as possible, in order to acquire the max number of rewards as possible.

TL;DR: More events are seen, not as giving more flexibility in choices, but rather as lost resources due to limited time.

@Brigby -- I think the pressure comes more from many players not understanding which events are coalition and which are individual -- even your schedule each week here can get confusing when it comes to this -- the visual clearly indicates what is standard or legacy, but does not indicate what is coalition or individual. 

When I connect with players, I often find amazing, strong players who compete and do well events, but won't join a coalition because they think being part of a team obligates them to play all events. When they learn that all but 1 or 2 of the events each week are optional, they are blown away! These are great players who aren't benefiting from the rewards that come with being part of a good coalition. 

Not all players are driven by max rewards, and perhaps simply labeling events both in-game and on the forum as individual or coalition could help players who aren't connected to the game as deeply make more informed decisions in how to best move forward in the game. 

Back to OP -- I'm a big supporter of the 12-hour last charge camp. It would be a huge quality of life improvement for every single player in the game -- or better yet, the second to last charge (14h before event time) just give 2 charges.

Skiglass6

Kinesia said:

It's hard to work out exactly what I'm trying to say, but it's something along the lines of... 5 charges for HoD already looks completely daunting to face, I dread it. More... I'd find it hard to even touch the event.
It's the _only_ event that gives me that feeling. 5 nodes with 3 charges is less confrontational to me than 3 nodes with 5 charges, it's just psychology of some sort. I don't understand it really but it is how I feel.

Actually 5 nodes with 3 charges is not the same “work” as three nodes with 5 charges, at least not in the beginning of the event. 5 nodes means you have to come up with 5 decks. Now if you have your decks already saved or at least know what you are going to use, this additional “work” is minimal. But if you want to tweak previous decks or even worse blow them all up and start from scratch, it takes additional time to consider PW choices, plan of attack and optimal card choices. 

When the weekend event starts Friday around noon, while I am at work,  with 2 charges with max 3 to hold, I feel the pressure.  Octagon has extended the end of these events whinch is nice but unfortunately this does not help me as the extra time is when I am already at work. So when I start losing time on a node, I am pushing the start time on the last node I have to play.

Now I am not crying, Personally I do not mind the 5 node event and I do not mind starting with 2 charges. I wish for these events you can hold 5 charges. After the initial setup of the event I can catch up, I just do not like feeling under the fun at the beginning of the event. 

So, truthfully it is not just psychology why you feel there is more work for 5x3 vs. 3x5. 

tfg76

Skiglass6 said:

Kinesia said:

It's hard to work out exactly what I'm trying to say, but it's something along the lines of... 5 charges for HoD already looks completely daunting to face, I dread it. More... I'd find it hard to even touch the event.
It's the _only_ event that gives me that feeling. 5 nodes with 3 charges is less confrontational to me than 3 nodes with 5 charges, it's just psychology of some sort. I don't understand it really but it is how I feel.

Actually 5 nodes with 3 charges is not the same “work” as three nodes with 5 charges, at least not in the beginning of the event. 5 nodes means you have to come up with 5 decks. Now if you have your decks already saved or at least know what you are going to use, this additional “work” is minimal. But if you want to tweak previous decks or even worse blow them all up and start from scratch, it takes additional time to consider PW choices, plan of attack and optimal card choices. 

When the weekend event starts Friday around noon, while I am at work,  with 2 charges with max 3 to hold, I feel the pressure.  Octagon has extended the end of these events whinch is nice but unfortunately this does not help me as the extra time is when I am already at work. So when I start losing time on a node, I am pushing the start time on the last node I have to play.

Now I am not crying, Personally I do not mind the 5 node event and I do not mind starting with 2 charges. I wish for these events you can hold 5 charges. After the initial setup of the event I can catch up, I just do not like feeling under the fun at the beginning of the event. 

So, truthfully it is not just psychology why you feel there is more work for 5x3 vs. 3x5. 

The higher number of charges, the more work with the 5 nodes as well.

I think that we should shoot for all events being approximately 25 matches total. Also, I think 2 days should be max. For 2 days, we should have 5 charges, and have the last charge last 12-14 hours to make sure everyone has a chance to play.

That means that a 5 node event should start with 1 charge on each node. A 3 node event should start with 4 charges on each node (for a total of 24 matches).