Thanos is Gambit of PVE

TheXMan

Why aren't there the same balance concerns for Thanos in PVE?  You can get progression rewards without him but if you want the top cover prizes and top daily rewards in the higher CLs, you better have him or wait and snipe an easier bracket.  

Phumade

Because you can immediately drop to a SCL where the enemy teams are scaled lower so your clear times can be competitive with realistic goals.

In PVP.  no matter what SCL you pick, you will always be matched up against the best rosters within your score range  I.e. no matter what SCL you play, it is possible to get matched up against massiver 460+ rosters.

in pve,  if you don't have the roster or time to match up in scl9,  you can select a scl where your roster times will be competitive for T10.

Daredevil217

I think this warrants discussion (great topic OP!)

I don’t know how long you’ve been around but the fact is there WERE balance concerns about Thanos and MANY posters asking for his nerf. What happened? Well I’m guessing as people covered him the chatter died down because they were benefitting from the fast clears (people who came too late to cover him be damned).  He once ruled both PVE and PVP but as the PVP meta passed him by people became mostly quiet about it and focused on the next thing being “too OP” (currently Gambit).

Phumade said:

Because you can immediately drop to a SCL where the enemy teams are scaled lower so your clear times can be competitive with realistic goals.

In PVP.  no matter what SCL you pick, you will always be matched up against the best rosters within your score range  I.e. no matter what SCL you play, it is possible to get matched up against massiver 460+ rosters.

in pve,  if you don't have the roster or time to match up in scl9,  you can select a scl where your roster times will be competitive for T10.

I disagree with this wholeheartedly. SCL are about the strength of your roster compared to the enemy. A person with 3-5 champed 5* that don’t include Thanos can absolutely win matches against the computer in SCL9. No doubt about it (just like you can win matches without Gambit in PVP).  But if you have Thanos you will clear faster and place higher. All the best rewards in the game mode go to those who were lucky to get him while they could. This is the exact same thing for Gambit in PVP.  Dropping down and clubbing seals is not an answer to an unbalanced tier. I can’t support that solution.  Champ all the 5s you want but keep playing in 7/8 because you are missing ONE 5? Seems just as Unbanced as Gambit.

Back to the OP - the real reason you don’t hear an outcry (aside from people just moving on) is that top placement is for like 1-5% of the playerbase. The rest only really care about progression, which is accessible to all in PVE (Thanos’ realm).  And those that do care about and chase placement in the highest levels have him already. 

Bowgentle

Thanos is old news.
Run Thor America, enjoy keeping your health packs.

Phumade

Daredevil217 said:

I think this warrants discussion (great topic OP!)

Phumade said:

Because you can immediately drop to a SCL where the enemy teams are scaled lower so your clear times can be competitive with realistic goals.

In PVP.  no matter what SCL you pick, you will always be matched up against the best rosters within your score range  I.e. no matter what SCL you play, it is possible to get matched up against massiver 460+ rosters.

in pve,  if you don't have the roster or time to match up in scl9,  you can select a scl where your roster times will be competitive for T10.

I disagree with this wholeheartedly. SCL are about the strength of your roster compared to the enemy. A person with 3-5 champed 5* that don’t include Thanos can absolutely win matches against the computer in SCL9. No doubt about it (just like you can win matches without Gambit in PVP).  But if you have Thanos you will clear faster and place higher. All the best rewards in the game mode go to those who were lucky to get him while they could. This is the exact same thing for Gambit in PVP.  Dropping down and clubbing seals is not an answer to an unbalanced tier. I can’t support that solution.  Champ all the 5s you want but keep playing in 7/8 because you are missing ONE 5? Seems just as Unbanced as Gambit.

And so if you don't have thanos; drop down a scl and improve your placements, until you can earn the necessary characters/covers!!

I think fundamentally your trying to shortcut your way to an elite tier roster. Rest assured I've clubbed plenty of seals and competed in scl 7 and 8 for YEARS before I played in scl9. There wasn't a magic trick that let me start one season in 4* tier and the next season in 5* tier. and no my roster did not magically spring forth through account merges, or breaking down dupes.

My strategy is the same basic strategy that has been repeated ad nausem by others since the game was started.

Pick a scl tier that you can consistently finsih t10.

     If you can't finish t10, drop down a tier. I have followed this advice from the day that X-Force became a god (day 200) to the day that Gambit invalidated the 5* tier (day 1300). In every situation, I just dropped back a reward tier, and patiently hoard resources until I could whale/resource boost/buy the cover I needed with HP or cp. (and rest assured their were at least 2 years of not finishing T5 PVE)

 AES has done the legwork and has the charts. Pick a scl that you can win and keep winning that bracket until you can compete in the next higher tier.

justsing

You don’t absolutely need Thanos to do well in PVE. I’ve placed T10 in SCL 7 and 8 without using Thanos. Maybe SCL 9 is a different story; I wouldn’t know there. But in 7-8, you can get away with not using Thanos. Plus there’s a good 3* version for those who don’t have the 5* with enough covers to be useful.

Daiches

Bowgentle said:

Thanos is old news.
Run Thor America, enjoy keeping your health packs.

This.

and it looks like Thor/Val may have legs vs the tilemovers.

Quebbster

Bowgentle said:

Thanos is old news.
Run Thor America, enjoy keeping your health packs.

Thanos is very useful to get Thor down below half Health fast though. I use Thor/Thanos for the trivial nodes, gets Thor nicely beat up for the tougher nodes where it Counts.

Jrlrma

Phumade said:

Daredevil217 said:

I think this warrants discussion (great topic OP!)

Phumade said:

Because you can immediately drop to a SCL where the enemy teams are scaled lower so your clear times can be competitive with realistic goals.

In PVP.  no matter what SCL you pick, you will always be matched up against the best rosters within your score range  I.e. no matter what SCL you play, it is possible to get matched up against massiver 460+ rosters.

in pve,  if you don't have the roster or time to match up in scl9,  you can select a scl where your roster times will be competitive for T10.

I disagree with this wholeheartedly. SCL are about the strength of your roster compared to the enemy. A person with 3-5 champed 5* that don’t include Thanos can absolutely win matches against the computer in SCL9. No doubt about it (just like you can win matches without Gambit in PVP).  But if you have Thanos you will clear faster and place higher. All the best rewards in the game mode go to those who were lucky to get him while they could. This is the exact same thing for Gambit in PVP.  Dropping down and clubbing seals is not an answer to an unbalanced tier. I can’t support that solution.  Champ all the 5s you want but keep playing in 7/8 because you are missing ONE 5? Seems just as Unbanced as Gambit.

And so if you don't have thanos; drop down a scl and improve your placements, until you can earn the necessary characters/covers!!

I think fundamentally your trying to shortcut your way to an elite tier roster. Rest assured I've clubbed plenty of seals and competed in scl 7 and 8 for YEARS before I played in scl9. There wasn't a magic trick that let me start one season in 4* tier and the next season in 5* tier. and no my roster did not magically spring forth through account merges, or breaking down dupes.

My strategy is the same basic strategy that has been repeated ad nausem by others since the game was started.

Pick a scl tier that you can consistently finsih t10.

     If you can't finish t10, drop down a tier. I have followed this advice from the day that X-Force became a god (day 200) to the day that Gambit invalidated the 5* tier (day 1300). In every situation, I just dropped back a reward tier, and patiently hoard resources until I could whale/resource boost/buy the cover I needed with HP or cp. (and rest assured their were at least 2 years of not finishing T5 PVE)

 AES has done the legwork and has the charts. Pick a scl that you can win and keep winning that bracket until you can compete in the next higher tier.

Have a link to these charts? 

The rockett

Bowgentle said:

Thanos is old news.
Run Thor America, enjoy keeping your health packs.

I think what people don’t understand unless you really push for the top end of how many different teams you can use. 

Daiches

Quebbster said:

Bowgentle said:

Thanos is old news.
Run Thor America, enjoy keeping your health packs.

Thanos is very useful to get Thor down below half Health fast though. I use Thor/Thanos for the trivial nodes, gets Thor nicely beat up for the tougher nodes where it Counts.

Retreating is faster.

CT1888

To me the major difference is Thanos may have been the fastest for a long time, but not having Thanos doesn't stop you getting progression, whereas not having Gambit makes getting progression in pvp significantly harder than before he was in game, so a lot more people are effected.

broll

I only have 4 5*s and outside the essential nodes and when he’s boosted I no longer run Thanos any more. He’s no longer the fastest as others have said. They balanced him correctly IMO by bringing in other new and powerful characters to counter balance. #BuffsNotNerfs

Phumade

Jrlrma said:

Phumade said:

Pick a scl tier that you can consistently finsih t10.

     If you can't finish t10, drop down a tier. I have followed this advice from the day that X-Force became a god (day 200) to the day that Gambit invalidated the 5* tier (day 1300). In every situation, I just dropped back a reward tier, and patiently hoard resources until I could whale/resource boost/buy the cover I needed with HP or cp. (and rest assured their were at least 2 years of not finishing T5 PVE)

 AES has done the legwork and has the charts. Pick a scl that you can win and keep winning that bracket until you can compete in the next higher tier.

Have a link to these charts? 

@aesthetocyst

Do you still have the charts and logs of how the scl prizes avg out based on placements?

TheXMan

I have a max 5Thor plus 3 other max 5s.  I rarely play CL9 but thought I would give it a try since he is boosted in this pve.  I started in 2nd and dropped all the way to 19th as I did my clears in just over 30 minutes.  I had Thor below half health when I started and used America with him on most of the nodes.  As stated, I need to snipe an easier bracket, drop CL, or just do progression and forget about the other rewards.

Bowgentle

TheXMan said:

I have a max 5Thor plus 3 other max 5s.  I rarely play CL9 but thought I would give it a try since he is boosted in this pve.  I started in 2nd and dropped all the way to 19th as I did my clears in just over 30 minutes.  I had Thor below half health when I started and used America with him on most of the nodes.  As stated, I need to snipe an easier bracket, drop CL, or just do progression and forget about the other rewards.

You need a bigger Thor.
Opening clears took me 28 minutes with Thor America.

Daredevil217

Phumade said:

Daredevil217 said:

I think this warrants discussion (great topic OP!)

Phumade said:

Because you can immediately drop to a SCL where the enemy teams are scaled lower so your clear times can be competitive with realistic goals.

In PVP.  no matter what SCL you pick, you will always be matched up against the best rosters within your score range  I.e. no matter what SCL you play, it is possible to get matched up against massiver 460+ rosters.

in pve,  if you don't have the roster or time to match up in scl9,  you can select a scl where your roster times will be competitive for T10.

I disagree with this wholeheartedly. SCL are about the strength of your roster compared to the enemy. A person with 3-5 champed 5* that don’t include Thanos can absolutely win matches against the computer in SCL9. No doubt about it (just like you can win matches without Gambit in PVP).  But if you have Thanos you will clear faster and place higher. All the best rewards in the game mode go to those who were lucky to get him while they could. This is the exact same thing for Gambit in PVP.  Dropping down and clubbing seals is not an answer to an unbalanced tier. I can’t support that solution.  Champ all the 5s you want but keep playing in 7/8 because you are missing ONE 5? Seems just as Unbanced as Gambit.

And so if you don't have thanos; drop down a scl and improve your placements, until you can earn the necessary characters/covers!!

I think fundamentally your trying to shortcut your way to an elite tier roster. Rest assured I've clubbed plenty of seals and competed in scl 7 and 8 for YEARS before I played in scl9. There wasn't a magic trick that let me start one season in 4* tier and the next season in 5* tier. and no my roster did not magically spring forth through account merges, or breaking down dupes.

My strategy is the same basic strategy that has been repeated ad nausem by others since the game was started.

Pick a scl tier that you can consistently finsih t10.

     If you can't finish t10, drop down a tier. I have followed this advice from the day that X-Force became a god (day 200) to the day that Gambit invalidated the 5* tier (day 1300). In every situation, I just dropped back a reward tier, and patiently hoard resources until I could whale/resource boost/buy the cover I needed with HP or cp. (and rest assured their were at least 2 years of not finishing T5 PVE)

 AES has done the legwork and has the charts. Pick a scl that you can win and keep winning that bracket until you can compete in the next higher tier.

I’m not trying to fundamentally shortcut anything first of all. I am a 4* player. I consistently get T10 and play in CL8 (not 9). I don’t use Thanos or any other 5. I’m just good at timing clears and picking the best 4* boosted combo to work with (and also play in an appropriate clearance level). I purposely didn’t make my post about me because it isn’t the point of the thread. 

My counter to you had nothing to do with me.  IF I was a 5* player I’d be mad that all my champs were obsolete because I were missing one who is now buried in classics. It’s the same thing people whine about with Gambit. There’s a haves vs have nots thing and it’s a balance issue. Not a “you’re picking the wrong clearance level issue”. In a balanced game a single character should not dictate an entire tiers effectiveness is the point  people make with Gambit in PVP. People are calling for balance in PVP but not PVE and that’s the point the OP was making. 

Now all this is moot because it has been pointed out that Thanos is NOT the Gambit of PVE and in fact has been passed by. The meta shifted as it always does in games such as this. So while I still think my argument is sound (if you are going to complain about characters in PVP being unbalanced, do so in PVE as well), it’s built on a faulty claim since the mode IS more balanced and there are a few options to get speedy clears, some faster than Thanos (this is what happens when a 4* player like myself tries to argue about grown people stuff *Charlie Brown head hang*). 

PenniesForEveryone

Daiches said:

Bowgentle said:

Thanos is old news.
Run Thor America, enjoy keeping your health packs.

This.

and it looks like Thor/Val may have legs vs the tilemovers.

Thanos/Rocket/Guardian is faster than Thor/America (just takes more health packs), but I think adding Valkyrie with Thor/America might actually de-throne Thanos - need to test in an event where Thor isn't boosted to confirm.

Orion

Daredevil217 said:

Now all this is moot because it has been pointed out that Thanos is NOT the Gambit of PVE and in fact has been passed by. The meta shifted as it always does in games such as this. So while I still think my argument is sound (if you are going to complain about characters in PVP being unbalanced, do so in PVE as well), it’s built on a faulty claim since the mode IS more balanced and there are a few options to get speedy clears, some faster than Thanos (this is what happens when a 4* player like myself tries to argue about grown people stuff *Charlie Brown head hang*). 

The difference isn't that the meta shifted, the difference is that in PvE you can get progression with any team you want.  You have to use the best, fastest team to get high placement.  In PvP, if you don't have Gambit, you can't even get progression, nevermind a decent placement.  It's a huge difference.

TheXMan

The person that came in 2nd for the initial set of clears used Thanos and Thor for many of the nodes.

ZeroKarma

Thanos is still the best in PvE. We will see how things look with Thormerica adding Valkyrie, but given the relatively low health of all nodes except for the 5E node, it will be very tough to dethrone him. Now, on the 5E node he is absolutely not worth using. Mine is 495 and Court Death doesn't do much when enemy health is over 100k. 

That being said, the new "meta" is the same as the old "meta", and it isn't Thanos. It's free time. My Thick as Thieves event is over for top placement after one sub since T1-T5 are all tapping for hours in advance. Whatever team is fastest for hitting the 4E repeatedly for hours on end without using health packs is officially the best team out there, and until there is a fix it isn't even close.