Battle of the Four Tribes - first thoughts

morgue427

really i was shocked that had a merfolk deck boss that worked well, it made me eat my words about thinking merfolk were the also rans in the set.vi was wrong but overall it seems like more of the same cycling decks to beat them while you get the cards to make the newest sets work well. The last boss was evil all those extra suports and effects you had a hard time keeping track of what you could and should do to win.

andrewvanmarle

I like that we have a new PVE event. I also like that oktagon has been creative in the gameplay of the event (special rules etc) but there -really- are a few things that need a rethink:

-This should have been a weekend event, most of us don't have as much time during the working week to play this game
- Starting charges should be 1 out of 3 to give us a bit of breathingroom before we start losing time
- the objectives shouldnt be too counterproductive: lose/kill x creature or less with an opponent that play a boardwipe or no spells for merfolk decks etc etc
-The current reward structure only helps the few. It'd be better to have a specific rare at the end of progression

5 nodes is a lot of play by the way....

Coilbox

I would add that having a boss that deals 999 damage with a single skill stands on the very cheesy side... But thats only just me i guess.

joerginger

No coalition event should be run during the working week. Ever. Why do that? We need to work and sleep and get other things done, thus having to find several hours per day during the week for the grind of this game is at least for me very bad for my quality of life.

No coalition event should have five nodes. Three are certainly enough. (You can always lower the progression thresholds.)

The starting charges per node at 2 are not a problem, but being forced to clear nodes within 8 hours of event start is a horribly bad idea. So either the starting charges should be lowered to 1, or the the number of maximum charges should be increased to at least 4.

Mburn7

So far I like the event, even if the objectives are still really annoying.

My biggest issue is the bugs.

Every single boss battle I have faced did not work properly.

Pirate Boss:  None of the field abilities worked.  Red matches did not destroy gems, blue matches did not draw, and black matches did not control (or whatever the ordering was)

Dino Boss:  It says destroy a NON-LAND support, but destroys lands

Vampire Boss:  Actually worked well, but has placeholder text for the sacrifice objective (and the vampire objective is still called Sorin's Fight?  Really?)

I haven't attempted Azor or the Merfolk Boss yet (I am not cycling, and thus not perfect), hopefully they work.

bk1234

Coilbox said:

I would add that having a boss that deals 999 damage with a single skill stands on the very cheesy side... But thats only just me i guess.

I actually agree with this. You have to cycle to succeed and you’re at the whim of draw because there is only so much support and creature destruction available.  

Mburn7

bken1234 said:

Coilbox said:

I would add that having a boss that deals 999 damage with a single skill stands on the very cheesy side... But thats only just me i guess.

I actually agree with this. You have to cycle to succeed and you’re at the whim of draw because there is only so much support and creature destruction available.  

I did not cycle to succeed, although I did cut it very close (won on the turn the AI was about to use it).

I do have River's Rebuke, though, so that helps a lot.  

I like the concept of a boss-like enemy with a timer, although I do think it should cost more than 9 for the insta-win

DBJones

@Mburn7, the pirate boss effects only trigger on match-4s. Black is deal 3 damage to your opponent and worked for me. The take control is only on match-5s.

Mburn7

DBJones said:

@Mburn7, the pirate boss effects only trigger on match-4s. Black is deal 3 damage to your opponent and worked for me. The take control is only on match-5s.

Ah, maybe I misread it.  It really should be listed somewhere else, but whatever.  Thanks

wereotter

My thoughts on the event are twofold (the timing of the event not withstanding)

First I think the decks were definitely more well thought out and interesting to play against than other decks we've faced in the past, and it was refreshing to see card from Origins being used in the decks again. I'm not sure we've seen that since the Zendikar events. Also I like that the opponents were given, in some cases, multiple loyalty abilities so that if they hit a cascade they're not doing their same 3-loyalty ability every turn for the rest of the game.

On the other side, I feel like some of these node mechanics were overwhelming and confusing. Especially when playing against Elenda and and Kumena I would see lots of effects triggering and have a hard time understanding what was happening, and why it was happening. There were too many if-then statements on the node modifications that made the nodes feel like too much to keep track of, and probably could have been dialed back a bit.

Additionally, the fight against Elenda is just grueling.... it took me over 40 minutes this morning to finish that node. It's possible I'm using a wrong strategy to finish it, but most people don't have that kind of time to invest into one of 5 matches on a weekday morning.

FindingHeart8

I don't know how some elite players run cycling so much.  Getting the high score must really be that big of a deal.

I only have so much free time on my hands.  If I'm going to play this game, I'm going to aim to enjoy the battle I'm playing instead of walking the path of the powergamer in pursuit of getting the top score. 

wereotter

FindingHeart8 said:

I don't know how some elite players run cycling so much.  Getting the high score must really be that big of a deal.

I only have so much free time on my hands.  If I'm going to play this game, I'm going to aim to enjoy the battle I'm playing instead of walking the path of the powergamer in pursuit of getting the top score. 

Gotta get that Immortal Sun so you can ignore node mechanics next time this event runs, and get the next high score reward..... 

Rhasget

bken1234 said:

Coilbox said:

I would add that having a boss that deals 999 damage with a single skill stands on the very cheesy side... But thats only just me i guess.

I actually agree with this. You have to cycle to succeed and you’re at the whim of draw because there is only so much support and creature destruction available.  

I used a supportheavy deck (only for win, not bonus ribbons since it's also slow).

Starfield/Gideons Intervention/Goggles/Sphinxs Decree
Approach of Second Sun/Forsake the worldly.

Greg never got the Blessing with Goggles triggering alot of Forsake spells and then he got clogged with spells, unable to cast due to Sphinxs Decree. 

Rhasget

My main gripe is that Vona, The Butcher can destroy Hexproof creatures with his ability also.
Don't know how it is written if it is supposed to be able too or if it's a bug.

wereotter

Rhasget said:

My main gripe is that Vona, The Butcher can destroy Hexproof creatures with his ability also.
Don't know how it is written if it is supposed to be able too or if it's a bug.

You've always been able to target your own hexproof creatures (except for the brief foray the game took into turning hexproof into shroud that was quickly reversed)

Also Vona is female

Ejmoose

The main thing I have to comment about is people’s complaints about the secondaries creating conflict for the obvious deck build, like the Merfolk and spells. To be fair, this is how the scores get split between levels of players. The patient player that can build some thing to get around that limitation, using cycling or not, gains the bonus points, where as the player wanting to use Merfolk and spells together will still get their win, without those extra couple points. 

Isnt that the point of secondary objectives? To give you something to aim for that makes your match more difficult, adding an increased difficulty of play. You may get more points and have a lead over the other players/coalitions, or you may lose the match entirely, dropping your score immensely.

As for the other topics, I agree PvE events should not be run during weekday, runnings a PvE with only one recharge before maxing is atrocious! I understand you want to see increased user login, but at the same time you will cull off your casual player base. This is the same problems we have seen time and time again. Please listen to your player base! Run another survey! We are the ones having to play the events, adapt them to what we want! 

bk1234

Ejmoose said:

The main thing I have to comment about is people’s complaints about the secondaries creating conflict for the obvious deck build, like the Merfolk and spells. To be fair, this is how the scores get split between levels of players. The patient player that can build some thing to get around that limitation, using cycling or not, gains the bonus points, where as the player wanting to use Merfolk and spells together will still get their win, without those extra couple points. 

Isnt that the point of secondary objectives? To give you something to aim for that makes your match more difficult, adding an increased difficulty of play. You may get more points and have a lead over the other players/coalitions, or you may lose the match entirely, dropping your score immensely.

I think this is a really important point -- and actually I built a deck for 3.3 that featured merfolk, used no spells and they still shined -- it ended up being one of my favorite matches -- but it took some time to figure out. 

The thing about objectives is they aren't supposed to be easy extra points, they are supposed to take you out of your comfort zone and force you think more intelligently about how you approach deckbuilding. 

Like everyone there are objectives I hate -- "finish with 20 or less" is one -- and I skip it, which means I have to up my game on other levels -- but it's the tradeoff I make to keep the event fun. 

Mainloop25

bken1234 said:

Ejmoose said:

The main thing I have to comment about is people’s complaints about the secondaries creating conflict for the obvious deck build, like the Merfolk and spells. To be fair, this is how the scores get split between levels of players. The patient player that can build some thing to get around that limitation, using cycling or not, gains the bonus points, where as the player wanting to use Merfolk and spells together will still get their win, without those extra couple points. 

Isnt that the point of secondary objectives? To give you something to aim for that makes your match more difficult, adding an increased difficulty of play. You may get more points and have a lead over the other players/coalitions, or you may lose the match entirely, dropping your score immensely.

I think this is a really important point -- and actually I built a deck for 3.3 that featured merfolk, used no spells and they still shined -- it ended up being one of my favorite matches -- but it took some time to figure out. 

The thing about objectives is they aren't supposed to be easy extra points, they are supposed to take you out of your comfort zone and force you think more intelligently about how you approach deckbuilding. 

Like everyone there are objectives I hate -- "finish with 20 or less" is one -- and I skip it, which means I have to up my game on other levels -- but it's the tradeoff I make to keep the event fun. 

I totally agree with this.

FeralSkald

I like the event, I like the timing of the event (I work weekends), and if/when cycling goes away the majority of these complaints will go with it. I don't understand why people complain about using cycling for easy wins when they have options not to. It's like complaining Mario brothers was too easy when you used your game genie. (Yes I'm aging myself).

Point is, there are players out there that appreciate this, so don't read too much into those that don't.

Rhasget

wereotter said:

Rhasget said:

My main gripe is that Vona, The Butcher can destroy Hexproof creatures with his ability also.
Don't know how it is written if it is supposed to be able too or if it's a bug.

You've always been able to target your own hexproof creatures (except for the brief foray the game took into turning hexproof into shroud that was quickly reversed)

Also Vona is female

I was referring to Vonas loyalty ability in node 4-2. It destroys Hexproof creatures also.

But I think it is worded so it destroys the first creature, not a specific target, so it circumvents hexproof.