When to switch 3* Bonus Hero away from Dr Strange?

froggerjohn

I've gotten some top-50 and a couple of top-25, which gave decent covers. But it varies quite a bit depending upon when I join, and which SCL. If the pool is full of good players, I'll top out with a few hundred points. Hard to describe the teams, since they vary a lot. S.H.I.E.L.D. right now is pretty favorable, with a number of 2* teams near mine, and some scattered low-cover 4*s. But seems like I remember skipping some fully-covered early-champed 3*s in Hotshot.

I mainly play PvP for variety, since PvE can be repetitive when I'm grinding nodes for points. Also got to a point in alliance team events like Civil War where all the opponent levels were so high, I couldn't play any of them. So PvP was all I had.

DAZ0273

Remember that SCL does not affect what teams you can fight, so you may get a variety.

It sounds like you might have made your mind up on Dr. Strange (although I would be tempted to champ anyway), so maybe it is time to switch tact?

Did you switch your bonus hero? If not then switch to IM40 and start levelling him to use with other higher characters. At level 89 he will have 5k+ health and his yellow will bring red, blue, green powers into play faster. Sure, he isn't quite at the level of your highest 2* but as his main purpose in the game is as a battery then get charging! It gives you more strings to your bow and will not hurt you. One more cover and he can level to low 100's too. Put some iso into 3* Thor too and start levelling him also so you can take advantage of covers coming from 2* Thor. Get these characters up and they will start to tank for Strange (apart from blue) and you wont need to match too much blue if you are getting recharge off from IM40. Get a team of Strange/IM40/Thor and you have a PvP team for low level play - counter-attack, Ap generation, stun, AOE.

froggerjohn

In absence of further info, I'd keep Dr. Strange where he is, but I also hope I'm still open-minded enough to have asked for advice. Increased healing and taking out sources of damage earlier are compelling reasons, so I'll definitely think about it. Just need to see how PvE plays next round, when 2* Mags/Hawkeye aren't boosted. Right now, that combo is almost unfair, and Dr. Strange takes very little if any damage (exposed only on the yellow, which I have no active powers on). The only bad part of that team, is that it only uses red/blue/purple, so it's vulnerable to bad boards, and makes no use of other colors when collected defensively or otherwise.

I do have the bonus hero now on IM40, who's currently at 2/4/3. Would have loved another yellow, but got two blues in a row. I've already used him on occasion, and that quick burst of AP sure is nice. (Until I get the next yellow cover, I use a yellow/red boost so he can still Recharge in two matches). I just bumped him to level 114, and I can try playing that recommended combo with 2* Thor for now until 3* catches up (I leveled him to 78). Strange will also be exposed on the Purple, and I love that power, but we'll see how it works. Obviously 'some' damage is manageable, like when I play him with Daken/Wolverine.

Dormammu

I think you're placing too much importance on tanking for Strange, which really shouldn't be a concern. Strange is a goon-buster in PvE and should be used when facing teams with 2-3 goons. There's no need to hide him behind a tank in these situations because match damage isn't a concern and Strange should be able to take out the goons before you take any damage. With IM40 (or anyone else) feeding him blue, this becomes rather trivial.

Against active opponents (who make matches) he is far less effective and I wouldn't recommend using Strange in PvP. Don't worry about your MMR - one champed 3-star isn't going to make much of a dent in the teams your seeing if you have multiple champed 2-stars. You're going to have to make the leap sooner or later anyway, because soft-capping your 3-stars to stay in line with your 2-stars isn't viable long term - you're going to start wasting lots of 3-star covers if you do.

froggerjohn

Just realized how I can preview this without going all-in. I'll raise his level just above the rest, and then see how it goes for a couple of days. If it's not a disaster, then I'm good to go all the way. If it turns into a problem, I'll pay attention to whether it would likely be solved with the added damage/health of the rest of the levels, and if that seems likely, then I'll still be all set.

If it seems like I won't like the results with my play style, then I don't have to wait too long to get back to the state I have now.

Either way, it isn't a strategy I'd use with any other 3*s. I'm only considering it with Strange because he's really valuable, but ideally in a support role. The situation seems very similar to what I went through with 2* Storm awhile back. I had considerably more covers for her than any other 2*, and she was vital to my success at the time. When I accidentally leveled her above other characters, I really struggled until the others caught up. So I don't want a repeat of that scenario.

HoundofShadow

I think PvE SCL 6 might be too challenging for your current roster now. Generally speaking, the average level of your top 3 or top 5 characters play a part in your MMR for PvP, up till a certain point (like 800?). So your top 5 are: 113, 110, 109, 108, 107 and the average is 109. Assuming you champed your DS and add the extra 3(?) covers that you have for him, your top 5 will look like 169, 113, 110, 109, 108 and the average would be 122. However, MMR will be recalculated if any of your character is boosted. I think 166 DS will be boosted to around 270 or 300?

Have you tried playing Lightning Round (LR)? It gives 2 HT for top 50 and 1 HT for top 100. I think their MMR is quite different but if you can get the feel of it, you can level up your 2* and 3* a lot faster. I played LR when I was in 2* land and my 2* levelled up very quickly.

Lastly, it seems that you have some affinity with characters with low hp and awesome abilities. That's why it caused you to be extra careful about levelling them up. Things will change when you get your IM40 up and running.

froggerjohn

Agreed about SCL6. In fact, I dropped back down to 4 this time, because matches were too long and too costly.

I've heard both top-3 and top-5 for MMR. If it's top-3, then it goes up to 130, or almost 20%. No idea if that's significant, but I do often play with boosted characters, so it certainly wouldn't matter at that point. Overall, I'm comfortable that it's not a major downside to leveling him up.

I have tried LR, but without much success. I haven't experimented quite as much with the join time though. At the beginning, there's a bunch of seed teams, so easy to get the initial rewards. But I hit road blocks pretty early and don't think I get to top-100. I joined a couple of them part way in, but couldn't win the first round IIRC. That was awhile ago though, so I'll try again next week.

I'm just trying to make the best use of what I have. Assuming one has such a character available, the right place for that character isn't on the front lines. Something I've already noticed with the 'experiment', is that the options are more limited when you know you're about to take a big hit. No big deal when there are no tile movers because you can plan ahead. When that's not the case however, you can get stuck with limited color options, so having him out front in more colors means greater likelihood of catching a big one.

DAZ0273

froggerjohn said:

Agreed about SCL6. In fact, I dropped back down to 4 this time, because matches were too long and too costly.

I've heard both top-3 and top-5 for MMR. If it's top-3, then it goes up to 130, or almost 20%. No idea if that's significant, but I do often play with boosted characters, so it certainly wouldn't matter at that point. Overall, I'm comfortable that it's not a major downside to leveling him up.

I have tried LR, but without much success. I haven't experimented quite as much with the join time though. At the beginning, there's a bunch of seed teams, so easy to get the initial rewards. But I hit road blocks pretty early and don't think I get to top-100. I joined a couple of them part way in, but couldn't win the first round IIRC. That was awhile ago though, so I'll try again next week.

I'm just trying to make the best use of what I have. Assuming one has such a character available, the right place for that character isn't on the front lines. Something I've already noticed with the 'experiment', is that the options are more limited when you know you're about to take a big hit. No big deal when there are no tile movers because you can plan ahead. When that's not the case however, you can get stuck with limited color options, so having him out front in more colors means greater likelihood of catching a big one.

Weekly boosted characters will definitely affect your MMR so it is highly likely you are on any given week hitting MMR that creeps towards Max Champ 2* level, so it shouldn't really have too great of an impact.

Heartbreaksoup

I genuinely believe you're overthinking this.  I'll tell you what worked terrifically for me.  I kept Dr. Strange as my bonus hero all the way to level 266.  No regrets, no issues.  I use him on the second half of most PVE levels.  Yes, when I match blue, it's frequently Strange who deals the damage and he's out in front.  He's also got 10800 hit points; he can take a few licks.

Once he hit 266, I switched bonus hero to my next highest ranked 3*, which is Carol Danvers.  When she reaches level 266, I'll sell her and start again and switch bonus hero to whomever is highest ranked behind her.

froggerjohn

Thanks for the details @Heartbreaksoup. So was Dr. Strange your highest 3* through all that? So he'd be tanking Blue, Purple, and Yellow?

Heartbreaksoup

He has always been my highest 3*, and he often does match those three colors (certainly with blue), but I change my team in just about every PVE node, every clear, rotating around my roster.  Groot and Rocket, for example, often deal yellow damage; the Hood was dealing blue in the just-finished PVP event.

I mean, if I really, really wanted Strange in back, then I could team him up with my 5-star Daredevil (5 covers) and my 5-star Cap (2 covers), and Strange doesn't do match damage in anything!    He just sits in back and Cytorraks and Faltines while they do all the heavy lifting.

The most recent match I did was the 3-star Carol essential in Duck Be a Lady, with Strange, Carol, and Lockjaw.  Carol matched yellow, and Strange blue and purple.

But it's honestly not necessary to use Strange in every situation.  If there's a Maggia Don, absolutely, because Strange will Faltine your opponent team three times in a row.  Nodes can go quickly if the opponent is taking 6300 damage on their own turn.  If it's three Dark Avengers, I'll probably bench him for the node.

DAZ0273

Dr. Strange champed in PVP

Dr. Strange is by no means, shape or form an ideal PvP character. That said…

Good:

Unless you can one-shot him, fighting against Strange guarantees damage being dealt and as the AI doesn’t care about that it will not play smart to try and avoid it– so as he will be on your defensive team if he is champed that might deter some players attacking your team. Of course, for stronger players it might do the opposite due to health issues below but you can’t have everything. Whilst I can often one-shot Strange, there have definitely been occasions where I faced a conundrum where using my power to kill another character on his team would cause him retaliate and finish off one of mine. This would then quite often mean I would delay and whaddayaknow *swirly swirly swirly* that stun just comes outta nowhere.

The AI will play him on auto-pilot pretty much on defence. So many times I have been stunned by the blue…so…many…times…

His blue stun can take out difficult opponents giving you a breather, destroying enemy AP stockpiles and dealing free damage per turn also.

Did we talk about his blue power yet?

His burst heal means you can risk taking him in to PvP at less than full health as long as you are careful.

As a champed 3* he is going to have health not too different from your 2* characters.

The only colours you will chase is blue and purple and out of those blue is the main one. That is easy to off-set by bringing IM40 along who will generate blue for you with his recharge power.

Bad:

He is defenceless against match damage and passives.

His low health pool means he is not suited for tanking.

 

 

So there you have it. Maybe somebody else can think of others but I would not waste those covers, I would champ him and then concentrate on getting IM40 as his partner whilst building up your 2* ready to flip when the time is right.

froggerjohn

Done. Champed, and 169. No wasted covers.

Despite feeling like it was fundamentally incorrect in the tactics of common warfare, there wasn't a single supporter here of that cautious position. So I suppressed my fears, and pushed the button.

Guys, I seriously appreciate your patience on this, and continued veteran advice. Back to stomping goons now.

DAZ0273

froggerjohn said:

Done. Champed, and 169. No wasted covers.

Despite feeling like it was fundamentally incorrect in the tactics of common warfare, there wasn't a single supporter here of that cautious position. So I suppressed my fears, and pushed the button.

Guys, I seriously appreciate your patience on this, and continued veteran advice. Back to stomping goons now.

Nice! Now you can concentrate on IM40 and once he is done you will have a massive headstart on the 3* tier! And let us know how you get along!

froggerjohn

I like it so far. I underestimated the effects of both the burst heal and the increased HP, which lets me enter battles with less than full health, and still be safe. It's a different approach to saving health packs, and a more efficient one at that, since I was otherwise wasting a lot of his burst heal.

Funny how the next Big Enchilada turned out to be Sentries, so limited help from Strange, but was still no problem. 

So, here's how I stand, with IM40 now at 3/5/3: (Need that dang 4th yellow)
https://mpq.gamependium.com/rosters/froggerjohn/revisions/46

Ended up buying slots so I didn't have to lose some decent covers.

Dormammu

froggerjohn said:

Ended up buying slots so I didn't have to lose some decent covers.

Best investment you can make.

abominatrix

Agreed with @Dormammu; if you can afford it then occasional spending helps the devs keep the lights on, and if you're going to spend money, the buying HP for slots is the way to go until you get to the point where your HP income more than covers your need to roster characters which is still a while from now.

froggerjohn

Some more info in my evolving saga:
https://mpq.gamependium.com/rosters/froggerjohn/revisions/50

One more IM40 cover to go.    Either red or yellow will let me champ him. The difference between needing 6 yellow instead of 7 yellow to fire Recharge will be so impactful. (I'm still using a boost in the meantime, if the match is a tough one).

Any suggestions for the Bonus Hero after IM40 is champed? 

I tried IM40+Strange+Thor(2/4/3) as recommended when he was boosted, and while I had moderate success, I didn't feel like Thor was a great partner for the other two. Using the yellow for IM40 steals one of Thor's best moves, assuming there's a fair amount of green on the board for Thunder Strike to match.

What I settled on, was IM40+Strange and 2* Bullseye. So far, this has been a nifty combo, even in PvP. If I can't get the yellow right away, I go for some purple to create a few shields and cut down the damage while waiting for the board to set up. (And it builds purple, in case I need to remove special tiles with Dr Strange). Once I fire Recharge, I'll hit the largest threat[s] with Strange's blue, and often times, you can stun one of them and deny AP on the other. It's one of my favorite powers in the whole game. Bullseye's green is surprisingly useful, and a fun bit of planning that adds a lot of enjoyment, IMO. I usually get one opportunity with his two-crit black as well, and it's often a kill shot. IM40 red also is sitting around for some nice damage, which I save towards the end so that the AP drain is harmless.

It's a team with all colors covered, and "no waste". Every color has a good option, and none of them take away great options of another character. It's pretty decent on health pack savings as well, between Bullseye shielding and Dr. Strange's burst heal, even though it doesn't have any true-healing characters.

Other recent experiments include:

3* Mags 3/3/3 Also recently boosted, and was hugely successful with IM40.

GSBW She's only 3/1/1 right now, but was a required character in PvE, so I got a taste of what's to come. Her green will be quite nice at 5 covers (and I already have one more on the vine), the red is very handy both defensively to remove special tiles, and for board shake, and the purple will be great for 5-of-a-kinds. I ran her with Hawkeye to get the Speed Shot bonuses.

OBW I read so much about her, and occasionally I get terrific results with either the AP steal, or the huge burst heal. (The latter helped me survive a match I otherwise had no chance in). But the big combo of Daken + Wolverine + OBW doesn't work well at all. Likely because my OBW is so far behind in levels, so she never procs Espionage. The thing is, if she was up with Daken and taking the hits instead of him, then we're throwing away Daken's self-healing, which is also bad. (The opposite of the "no waste" comment I made above). So I really don't quite understand this team combo.

Heartbreaksoup

If you want a fabulous trio of 3*s, IM40 and Strange work very, very well with Black Widow.  She'd get my vote.

Go for yellow and purple to start.  IM40 almost immediately charges Strange's blue, and also Widow's red pistol power, which will also get rid of enemy special tiles.  IM40's charge also gives you a little green and purple - you won't get quite enough green to use Widow's big weapon, but once her purple power is ready, she'll finish it up herself.  Using purple, if you place green tiles sensibly, not only can you possibly knock out some enemy tiles with some match-4s, you could also create a few critical tiles for yourself, or even generate as much as 18 green AP before you make a match.

I'm playing Deadpool vs MPQ at SCL-6 and used this trio -  Widow is boosted this week - all through the more difficult hero levels.  (Kind of weird how "day one," against the heroes, is so much tougher than the matches against the villains, really...)  Nobody put up a fight against them.  Even the sixth clear against level 220 characters ended in about 5 turns.

(And let me tell you how remarkably satisfying it was to bring down Professor X before anybody on the enemy team used a single power.)

I do think IM40 is a little more fiddly, as an Iron Man, than I'd prefer.  Iron Man should be in front, not sitting back hiding in stun after making a couple of yellow matches.  He's Iron Man!  He shouldn't be a battery!  But I can't deny his utility.

Another, underrated idea would be to use Squirrel Girl as your third member.  Here, you'd be using the red yourself as the Unibeam power, but only after SG uses purple - IM40's red drains purple.  This is nowhere as efficient as Black Widow, but I enjoy SG's purple and green powers.  Also, champed, Black Widow will bring you some boring old Nick Fury covers, while SG brings you the much more fun Ant-Man.

Dormammu

froggerjohn said:

Some more info in my evolving saga...

IM40 is incredible, isn't he? It's like the game has two different phases:
pre-IM40 and post-IM40.

Your Captain America is getting closer and you'll find he is an awesome partner for IM40 because once you get Cap's red and blue going (accelerated by IM40), they feed themselves AP back and before long you have shields all over the place. He's one suggestion for your next bonus hero.

After that you need some more green users. Patch is a perfect partner for IM40 & Strange against goons (not active opponents). The three of them can carve up goon teams quicker than a hot knife through butter. After one IM40 re-charge, Patch fills the board with strike tiles and Strange's blue and yellow puts those strikes to good use. But Patch also makes enemy strikes, which is why this team is better against goons who aren't making matches against you.

3-star Thor amps up much higher than 2-star Thor and his green decimates - you're getting close on him. Another character to look out for at the 3-star tier is Human Torch. His green will shred teams up fairly quickly.

In the short term, you have Ares. His green is no joke.

Just keep plugging red, blue, and green users with IM40. When he's boosted, IM40 will have the best red attack in the 3-star tier, so don't discount him from using his own AP.