When to start working towards 5* transition ?

tonypqtonypq Posts: 88 Match Maker
Hi all,

Curious when I should focus on 5* transition. For 5* I have several with 7-10 covers, Surfer 8, OML 10, Ironman 8, Thanos 8, Panther 7. I have about 30 4*s to fully cover/champ, although I've champed the most essential ones, most of what' left is low tier 4s and niche characters I wouldn't use much.

Just getting to the point legends token pulls never gets me the 4* covers I need just hoards of duplicates. Feels like I'm wasting my CPs where as if I had saved them I might have at least one of those 5* fully covered. Although without spending my CPs as I get them, it's less chances at pulling 5s, which I've been fairly lucky getting 5s from token pulls. I have every 5*, most with at least 3 covers. 

I purchase VIP, and also hit the CP rewards in PVE and PVP, so I earn the frequently. Just not sure which way to go. 

Should I save CPs for 5* covers or keep rolling with token pulls hoping to finish of some 4s and occasionally get a random 5* ?

Comments

  • carrion pigeonscarrion pigeons Age Unconfirmed Posts: 942 Critical Contributor
    If you're wasting covers, you should hoard. The point where you want to be entering 5*s is probably the point at which your hoard gets big enough to spam enough LTs to cover 5 all at once, which is about 300 of them.   Just let your hoard grow as it will, and the moment will come naturally. 
  • twistmonkeytwistmonkey Posts: 79 Match Maker

    Ideally you want to hoard your LTs and CP until you have at least around 300 latest legend pulls available (will be a mixture of CP/LT). The reason for this is two fold: 1) by not pulling tokens / CP you'll be able to save up the ISO you will need to champ your 5s when you do pull, and 2) when you do crack  your hoard, you'll be pulling from a pool of three characters not the twenty or so 5s that are currently in classics.

    The reason you want around 300 is you'll have around a 98% chance of covering all 5s in the latest legends pool, and you'll be able to request covers swaps for non optimal cover distribution (unlike with classic 5s).

    Keep in mind, when you do pull you'll need around 3 x 574k = 1.7m ISO to champ your three shiny new 5s, plus any 4s that you may not have champed at that point.

    Also worth noting that you don't HAVE to pull when you hit 300 pulls. For example I hit 300, then waited until SL and Ock both dropped out of tokens until I pulled (my three were Spidey/DD/Gambit). Hit me up on the line app if you're looking for more info or an invite into any of the hoard chats.

    Good luck!

  • tiomonotiomono Posts: 1,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    So at what point would anyone pull classics? After you have 3 5*s champed? There are too many good characters in classics to completely ignore them imo.
  • StraycatStraycat Posts: 959 Critical Contributor
    I would probably wait until you have more 4* champs, 30 is only about half of them. I don't know if you are pulling classics, but you could switch to Latests and see if rng wants you to make the jump. Thats what happened to me, I managed to cover a 5* from LTs without hoarding, probably because the bulk of my 3*s started giving lots of Lts and cp.
    But if you are bored with the 4*s and have the patience, you can do the hoard thing. Dupes will always happen, so I wouldn't necessarily change up everything for that reason. I have 56 4* champs and still get dupes sometimes.
  • BlackBoltRocksBlackBoltRocks Posts: 2,284 Chairperson of the Boards
    tiomono said:
    So at what point would anyone pull classics? After you have 3 5*s champed? There are too many good characters in classics to completely ignore them imo.
    I consider anyone with three champed 5* effectively in 5* land. As such, you might as well continue pulling from Latests, because you're much more likely to covermax any future 5* from there, if you want more 5* champs.

    The only two occasions you should even consider reverting to Classic LTs is

    1) you have a Classic 5* at 12 covers. Even then, there is a less than 1% chance you'll get that 13th cover, even less so if that 5* is not at a 4/4/4 build, because there's a chance of you drawing a dupe cover. I'd rather you Bonus that Classic 5* and just stick to pulling Latest Legends.

    2) You don't care about champing 5* anymore and want to go back to focusing solely on 4*.

    You might also want to save up CP for when they release a new 5*, because that 5* will likely with be two other 5* in the special store. Or you can save up CP for random special stores, like the Cosmic Legends or Family Legends stores
  • tiomonotiomono Posts: 1,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    So only pull classics to build your 4's and hope you luck into a good spread on a 5? I just don't understand the never pull classics thinking that gets promoted so much on here.
  • DormammuDormammu Posts: 3,379 Chairperson of the Boards
    I use my CP on classics. It's a good way to slowly build 5-stars and get even advancement on 4-stars. But then, I'm still building a few older 4-stars and I'm in no hurry to make the 5-star jump. The 'never pull classics' mentality is for max-covering 5-stars, but building that hoard and waiting for the 'right' 3 to be in latest legends requires some patience/discipline to act at the right time.
  • grannegranne Posts: 839 Critical Contributor
    I pulled classics while I was concentrating on building 4*s. There came a point, though, where I was getting enough LLTs that my latest 5*s were getting a decent number of covers, and a lot of my 4*s were reaching the 10+ covers range. That was when I decided to switch, both to slow slightly my 4* acquisition rate and to build up some 5*s. I don't hoard, but I now have a champed 5* Thor.
  • carrion pigeonscarrion pigeons Age Unconfirmed Posts: 942 Critical Contributor
    It isn't "never pull classics". If you're in 4* land and not hoarding, then classics are the way to go, because they're cost-effective.   But at some point the level of dilution in classics will mean that you have enough of a higher chance of hitting a dupe you can't use that the higher cost of Latests will cease to matter. At that point, you should hoard, if for no other reason than because you need the iso. 

    Once you're hoarding, then Latests start to get progressively more interesting, because the low level of dilution means they're the best place to spam a lot of resources at once. 
  • Pants1000Pants1000 Posts: 480 Mover and Shaker
    I always pull classics and don’t hoard.  I usually end up with 5-8 covers on each 5* before they leave latest, then add onto that in classics.

    It’s worked ok.  I have 3 champs now (Phoenix, Surfer and Cap), Ock at 13 covers, and 4 more at 12 covers (OML, Hawkeye, Panther and BSSM).

    Since I’ve spent on classics, I think I have much higher 4’s than most people with a few champed 5’s.  Peggy is my highest at 362.  Once I get her to 370 I’ll switch my BH to Gamora for Thanos covers, or Kate for Hawkeye covers.  I should be able to champ both of those in the next few months.

    If it weren’t for Gambit I’d say it worked well.  But now 5* PVP stinks, and my Gambit has 7 covers.
  • sinnerjflsinnerjfl Posts: 1,104 Chairperson of the Boards
    tiomono said:
    So only pull classics to build your 4's and hope you luck into a good spread on a 5? I just don't understand the never pull classics thinking that gets promoted so much on here.
    Pulling from Classics is just futile at this point if your goal is to properly cover a 5*. Not only do you need to pull a 5* in the first place, then you need to RNG into the cover you actually want and there's like 20 5*'s with 3 colors each, spread that over 100, 1000 or more pulls and you probably wont even have one of the classic 5* covered.

    Just pulling from Latests requires hundreds of pulls and there only 3 characters in there.


    To the OP, like a lot of people said, you should hoard until you have about 250-300 pulls and wait for a good set of 5*'s in Latests. It will take a few months but you'll only need to do this once, after you get your 5*'s covered, save whatever CP/tokens is remaining for the next interesting chars. With regular play, you'll be able to cover the next set of 5*'s in Latests with relative ease.
  • tonypqtonypq Posts: 88 Match Maker
    For those of you who have hoarded around 250-300 LL token pulls, about how long did that take you ? 

    I typically earn all the CP's in every PVE event including DP daily. Almost always get the 10 CP's from each PVP event and some from the PVP season rewards as well. Then other sources like VP and champion cover rewards. 

    It's hard for me to hoard, I was addicted to buying sports cards as a kid, not spending my CP's as soon as I get them is tough heh. For the few years with some retirements in between, I've always used my CP's soon as I got them.

    Even know I have quite a bit 4*s left to cover/champ, I've finished pretty much all the essential ones I'd really use. I have enough 4s that every event I have a decent selection of powered up characters now. Spending my CP's as I get them, I've typically always used them on the 20 CP legend token pulls, I've made progress on the 4's I really wanted/needed and got every 5*. At this point I'm getting duped to death with 4* covers in my classic pulls and was confused how/when to work on my 5*s. 

    It's certainly a pain to cover classic 5*s now, my OML has now gotten R/Y covers about 4 times when I need 2 black to finish him. Then other 5s I have at 7-8 covers, still seems like a pipe dream to cover them anytime soon. As a Thanos 5* black cover I need is in the store at 250 CPs, I started thinking maybe I'd be better to stop pulling classics and save CPs for when 5* covers I need come around like Thanos, IM, BP, OML, SS. I don't have a whole lot of luck with bonus 5*s either, maybe gotten 3 or bonus 5s since that feature kicked in. 
  • sinnerjflsinnerjfl Posts: 1,104 Chairperson of the Boards
    tonypq said:
    For those of you who have hoarded around 250-300 LL token pulls, about how long did that take you ?
    3 to 4 months, and thats with hitting 1200 in PVP pretty much always.
  • tiomonotiomono Posts: 1,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    sinnerjfl said:
    tiomono said:
    So only pull classics to build your 4's and hope you luck into a good spread on a 5? I just don't understand the never pull classics thinking that gets promoted so much on here.
    Pulling from Classics is just futile at this point if your goal is to properly cover a 5*. Not only do you need to pull a 5* in the first place, then you need to RNG into the cover you actually want and there's like 20 5*'s with 3 colors each, spread that over 100, 1000 or more pulls and you probably wont even have one of the classic 5* covered.

    Just pulling from Latests requires hundreds of pulls and there only 3 characters in there.

    I mean I get it from the standpoint of trying to get into the 5* game as far as getting 2 or 3 champed, but is there a point you should go back to classics to try and widen your 5* game? Or should you just totally ignore all the older characters and continue just covering the latests?
  • BlackBoltRocksBlackBoltRocks Posts: 2,284 Chairperson of the Boards
    tiomono said:
    sinnerjfl said:
    tiomono said:
    So only pull classics to build your 4's and hope you luck into a good spread on a 5? I just don't understand the never pull classics thinking that gets promoted so much on here.
    Pulling from Classics is just futile at this point if your goal is to properly cover a 5*. Not only do you need to pull a 5* in the first place, then you need to RNG into the cover you actually want and there's like 20 5*'s with 3 colors each, spread that over 100, 1000 or more pulls and you probably wont even have one of the classic 5* covered.

    Just pulling from Latests requires hundreds of pulls and there only 3 characters in there.

    I mean I get it from the standpoint of trying to get into the 5* game as far as getting 2 or 3 champed, but is there a point you should go back to classics to try and widen your 5* game? Or should you just totally ignore all the older characters and continue just covering the latests?
    As I said, forget about Classics for 5* land. Either focus on the three Latests, or wait for those special 5* stores to come around, usually during a new 5* release (which should be sometime later this week; we're due for a 5*) or a special event (like Infinity War)
  • BlackBoltRocksBlackBoltRocks Posts: 2,284 Chairperson of the Boards
    tonypq said:
    For those of you who have hoarded around 250-300 LL token pulls, about how long did that take you ? 
    My current rate is around 30CP and slightly less than one LT per day. I'll round that up to the equivalent of 50CP per day; so it would take me around 150 days to hit 300 pulls. Sources:

    - SCL9 in pretty much every PvE event, with the rare drop to SCL8
    - 575 points every PvP (I can't be bothered with 1200. I've never hit the 10k season point either)
    - Champ rewards from 2*, 3*, 4*
    - CP from alliance members
    - CP from SHIELD intercepts (which is sort of negligible tbh)

    I'm not a VIP.
    It's certainly a pain to cover classic 5*s now, my OML has now gotten R/Y covers about 4 times when I need 2 black to finish him. Then other 5s I have at 7-8 covers, still seems like a pipe dream to cover them anytime soon. As a Thanos 5* black cover I need is in the store at 250 CPs, I started thinking maybe I'd be better to stop pulling classics and save CPs for when 5* covers I need come around like Thanos, IM, BP, OML, SS. I don't have a whole lot of luck with bonus 5*s either, maybe gotten 3 or bonus 5s since that feature kicked in. 
    Indeed. It's much better to spend 250CP on a Classic 5* in the HfH store. For myself though, I'd only do that if a Classic 5* is at 12 covers. Like say if your Thanos is at 3/4/5 or something, go ahead and buy that Black cover. But ymmv
     
  • bluewolfbluewolf Posts: 2,590 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2018
    Let's say you want a specific 5* character in Classic.  Your odds in 3 weeks, when Thor enters Classics and there are 20 5's in there, will be around 0.75% of getting, say, Thor.  That's about 133 pulls to get, with even distribution, one of each Classic 5.  Getting more covers gets into statistics and it starts getting more likely that you get some of one 5 over another, since even distribution is a very unlikely scenario.  Anyway, 133 pulls is 2660 CP.  Now, you might end up with 2-3 of one character and 0 of others (and probably would) so who knows where luck takes you there.

    Now let's say you want 300 pulls in the Latest store, which is recognized as the best way to move to the 5* tier, and probably gets you 3 13 cover 5's.  That's 7500 CP, but you will have LTs as well to make up some of that CP.  But, if you took that 7500 CP to Classics you would probably have, on average, 0-5 covers for all 20 5's which is basically worthless.  My estimate of earning about 25CP a day means its about 150 days / 5 months to get 7500 CP.  I don't got to 1200, so if you do that, you can drop your time by about a month, I guess.  Either way, the mountain you are trying to climb is impossible if you dump CP into Classics unless you are going to dramatically increase your CP with spending.

    The odds of getting a specific 5* in Latest is 5%.  The odds of getting a specific Latest 4* from a pull is 3.54%.  The odds of getting a specific Vintage 4* from a pull (currently, with 60 4*'s in tokens) is 0.885%.  (Luckily, there are other avenues for getting 4* covers now.)  The Latest store provides, no question, the best bang for your CP buck.  And cover swaps are a thing in Latest and make it a lot easier for the average player to finish a 5* vs cursed RNG getting in your way in Classics.

    The sad fact is that the Classic 5's that aren't significantly covered are probably locked away by dilution for players.  Feeders can help if you are lucky, but even there, getting someone to give you all 6 covers will take a lot of focus on one 4* as a bonus hero.

    The 5's are the carrot.  The recent actions of the devs make them a little more attainable, but there is still a huge hurdle in getting a Classic 5 covered, and I really can't see how someone can start from 0 covers now and get there until, perhaps someday, there is a 5* cover in placement or progression.  But making it too easy makes 6*'s something of the next carrot, and I believe the game will shut down before a 6* is introduced.
  • JSP869JSP869 Posts: 576 Critical Contributor
    edited March 2018
    I currently have 35 4* champions with 10-12 more needing just 1-2 covers. My best covered 5*s are 2/4/3 Gambit and 5/3/1 Daredevil. I had fun spending my tokens and CP in January before Gambit left Latest, and since then I've been hoarding again, and I've saved up 29 LTs and 770 CP. That's just 20% of a 300+ Legendary pull. Nowhere near enough.

    I also have practically no Iso at the moment because every few events I get a 4* cover for a partially covered 4* so I bump them up to their next level, because I know that when I do a 300+ Legendary pull, the more 4* champions I have the fewer covers will be wasted. So the way I see it it's beneficial to my long game to champ a 4* when I have the opportunity to do so, even if it's not a 4* I'm ever likely to use outside of their required node.

    I'm trying to continue hoarding, and the recent changes D3 are making to 4* champion rewards are certainly helping curb my enthusiasm. I got DD's 5th yellow cover from Kingpin hitting 280, and when I get the Rogue progression cover from the next event that will put her at 280, so I'll get a Legendary Token there and when they change her rewards (sometime in the future) to give covers at 280, etc., it will probably be a Gambit cover. That means if I can buy a Purple or Black Gambit cover from the H4H store, I'll eventually be able to champion Gambit via Rogue and her champion rewards.

    I'm also waiting for the next 5* "Gambit", and hopefully by the time that new killer character comes along (whoever it is) I'll have the LTs and CP for a 300+ pull. If not, I'll just have to pass on them and keep hoarding. Because I'd rather wait and get 2-3 fully covered 5*s than have another partially covered "Gambit".
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