1* covers -- Sell, or Recruit/Train/Sell?

froggerjohn

Selling directly from the rewards page yields 100 iso per cover.
Recruit/Train/Sell is 100 iso per character, but worth SHIELD XP (which eventually turns into iso).

So I'm assuming the latter is better, at least early on (I'm at SHIELD rank 20 right now).

Any other factors in this analysis?

Dormammu

Someone did the math on this after they revamped the way XP works. I think I remember that it was ISO positive to farm 1-stars for the XP rewards until you get into an upper shield level (80-100ish?) but after that you'll get more iso for just selling them.

froggerjohn

Are there leveling consequences of boosting the SHIELD XP rank?

Quebbster

froggerjohn said:

Are there leveling consequences of boosting the SHIELD XP rank?

Getting a high SHIELD rank locks you out of low level SCLs in PvP events. Other than that I don't think there is any downsides to increasing your SHIELD rank.

HoundofShadow

I levelled up my S.H.I.E.L.D ranking too fast and kind of regret it because I'm locked out of SCL 5 and soon, I'll be lock out of SCL 6. The score difference among the top scoring board for SCL 5, 6, 7, 8 are pretty crazy. SCL 6 typical top scores are about 800 and when you reach SCL 7 or 8, the top scores are about 2000. 

I'm referring to PvP only.

Quebbster

HoundofShadow said:

I levelled up my S.H.I.E.L.D ranking too fast and kind of regret it because I'm locked out of SCL 5 and soon, I'll be lock out of SCL 6. The score difference among the top scoring board for SCL 5, 6, 7, 8 are pretty crazy. SCL 6 typical top scores are about 800 and when you reach SCL 7 or 8, the top scores are about 2000. 

I'm referring to PvP only.

Yeah, the top rosters are locked out of SCL 1-6 but they do tend to spread out in SCL 7, 8 and 9.

rocks52

Dormammu said:

Someone did the math on this after they revamped the way XP works. I think I remember that it was ISO positive to farm 1-stars for the XP rewards until you get into an upper shield level (80-100ish?) but after that you'll get more iso for just selling them.

Did they figure it with max covered level 1 1*?  Iso loss for maxing out a character and then selling it vs Iso loss for not just outright selling the covers.  Also would depend on if we're talking a lv 40 1* vs lv 50

Quebbster

rocks52 said:

Dormammu said:

Someone did the math on this after they revamped the way XP works. I think I remember that it was ISO positive to farm 1-stars for the XP rewards until you get into an upper shield level (80-100ish?) but after that you'll get more iso for just selling them.

Did they figure it with max covered level 1 1*?  Iso loss for maxing out a character and then selling it vs Iso loss for not just outright selling the covers.  Also would depend on if we're talking a lv 40 1* vs lv 50

I don't Think the farmers level their onestars, they just keep them at level 1 and apply covers as they come.

I seem to recall the break-even Point being around level 177.

MoTiV

I'm not sure where the break even point is but you can always check how much ISO per XP you're getting by dividing the rank reward (ISO) by the amount of XP needed to get to the next rank. 

Right now I'm at rank 99 and it takes 3875 ISO to get to 100. The rank reward is 52500 ISO so 52500/3875 = 13.55 ISO/XP. Each 1 star cover gives 10XP so right now every cover I farm gives me 13.55 *10 =135.5 ISO. So I'm getting a +35% ISO boost by farming. Once it gets down to around 100 it won't be worth the effort but right now i need all the ISO i can get!

froggerjohn

Thanks for the notes on SCL leveling. Although I did initially do a bit of 1* farming, I think just selling the covers is a safer course overall, so I don't get forced into an SCL I'd rather not be in.

rocks52

MoTiV said:

I'm not sure where the break even point is but you can always check how much ISO per XP you're getting by dividing the rank reward (ISO) by the amount of XP needed to get to the next rank. 

Right now I'm at rank 99 and it takes 3875 ISO to get to 100. The rank reward is 52500 ISO so 52500/3875 = 13.55 ISO/XP. Each 1 star cover gives 10XP so right now every cover I farm gives me 13.55 *10 =135.5 ISO. So I'm getting a +35% ISO boost by farming. Once it gets down to around 100 it won't be worth the effort but right now i need all the ISO i can get!

I'm at rank 114 so 60,000 iso after 4725 xp.  that equals roughly 12.7 iso/xp

rocks52

Ok the math here is wrong.  You only get XP for first time rostering a specific character.  so re-rostering a 1* will not give you 10 xp each time.  So you only get 90 (or 120) xp from max covered 1* characters.  

DarthDeVo

rocks52 said:

Ok the math here is wrong.  You only get XP for first time rostering a specific character.  so re-rostering a 1* will not give you 10 xp each time.  So you only get 90 (or 120) xp from max covered 1* characters.  

You are correct that you won't get XP for re-rostering a character, but if you get one of the three-cover 1*s to 13 covers, you can respec which cover is at 5, and each time you do that you do get 10 XP, which is what I do. I haven't bothered maxing out a two-cover 1* and then selling it yet, and probably won't.

stef_focus

rocks52 said:

Ok the math here is wrong.  You only get XP for first time rostering a specific character.  so re-rostering a 1* will not give you 10 xp each time.  So you only get 90 (or 120) xp from max covered 1* characters.  

But you then get 100 iso for selling the character.
For 2 color 1*:
Sell 10 covers: 1000 iso
roster/train/sell: 100 iso + 90 xp
For 3 color 1*:
Sell 13 covers: 1300 iso
roster/train/sell: 100 iso + 120 xp

As long as the iso/xp for the shield rank is higher than 10, you're on a net positive. Of course the roster/train/respec for 3 color 1* will net more xp.

Personally I do the respec for the 3 color ones, and sell directly the 2 color ones (not worth the hassle of trying to get 5 covers of each color)

Daredevil217

Am I crazy or is farming 1* like giving away iso?

I think of XP rewards as this bond or inheritance that’s put away for me and I can’t touch it until I reach a certain age. I will eventually be old enough to get it, I just have to be patient. By farming instead of selling you are essentially paying a fee that allows you to access your bond sooner. So you get yours this year but paid for that privilege while I get mine next year and would have pocketed the money you spent to get yours sooner.

I know that this analogy doesn’t work precisely because in MPQ there’s always another inheritance right around the corner. But I still think in the long game you are ultimately giving iso away by choosing to farm 1s. With every other tier obviously the rewards make up for the lost iso.

 It’s sort of like the people who will spend CP to champ a character and say “well I got a legendary token so it evened out”. No it didn’t! You were going to get that champ level eventually, and when you did you would have had your CP in the bank as well!  Again you’re just paying to get something that you were going to get eventually sooner. 

stef_focus

If you get near the max level it indeed would be a little like giving away ISO. But 1) It becomes unprofitable far before that, and 2) so far the history of MPQ has shown that even if you are at max rank, the XP will still keep counting, so when they up the max level you get a head start.

The same with buying a cover for CP. Most do this when they have other covers dying on the vine and it is a choice between keeping CP and selling of the covers, or buying the last cover and champing. It is a loss on content but a gain in roster strength and opportunity. I would rather have a usable 5/3/5 IM40 than 20 CP, + 500 iso + lot less useable 5/5/2 IM40. An increase in roster strength also means higher placements and higher rewards.

So it is more a question of putting money in your savings account or investing it.

Dormammu

Daredevil217 said:

Am I crazy or is farming 1* like giving away iso?

I think of XP rewards as this bond or inheritance that’s put away for me and I can’t touch it until I reach a certain age. I will eventually be old enough to get it, I just have to be patient. By farming instead of selling you are essentially paying a fee that allows you to access your bond sooner. So you get yours this year but paid for that privilege while I get mine next year and would have pocketed the money you spent to get yours sooner.

Except the farmers are getting their next bond, and next bond, and next bond.... all while you're waiting for your first just so you can have some more ISO in hand when the bonds run out - which by the time they do your roster is so far advanced it won't matter.

Daredevil217 said:

 It’s sort of like the people who will spend CP to champ a character and say “well I got a legendary token so it evened out”. No it didn’t! You were going to get that champ level eventually, and when you did you would have had your CP in the bank as well!  Again you’re just paying to get something that you were going to get eventually sooner. 

I've spent 240 CP to champ a 4-star. I didn't do it to save covers on the vine or get a LT champ reward, I did it to improve my roster. It was Peggy, and at the time she instantly made me more competitive and allowed me to earn better rewards and spend less time doing it. That was valuable to me, valuable enough to warrant the CP. I wasn't going to get the two Peggy covers I needed from RNG token pulls (the odds were astronomical, at least) and getting her champed made me happy.

This game is an endless resource grind. There's always going to be more characters, more CP needed, more ISO needed, more HP needed... there's never a point where you go "I'm all caught up!" so we might as well champ the ones we love and have some fun along the way.

rocks52

DarthDeVo said:

rocks52 said:

Ok the math here is wrong.  You only get XP for first time rostering a specific character.  so re-rostering a 1* will not give you 10 xp each time.  So you only get 90 (or 120) xp from max covered 1* characters.  

You are correct that you won't get XP for re-rostering a character, but if you get one of the three-cover 1*s to 13 covers, you can respec which cover is at 5, and each time you do that you do get 10 XP, which is what I do. I haven't bothered maxing out a two-cover 1* and then selling it yet, and probably won't.

Wouldn't this hurt you in the long run?  If you never sell those 1* covers, you never get any iso from them.  Are you also immediately selling all 2-cover 1*?  I don't feel like trying to math it to see what the net gain/loss is there

DarthDeVo

rocks52 said:

DarthDeVo said:

rocks52 said:

Ok the math here is wrong.  You only get XP for first time rostering a specific character.  so re-rostering a 1* will not give you 10 xp each time.  So you only get 90 (or 120) xp from max covered 1* characters.  

You are correct that you won't get XP for re-rostering a character, but if you get one of the three-cover 1*s to 13 covers, you can respec which cover is at 5, and each time you do that you do get 10 XP, which is what I do. I haven't bothered maxing out a two-cover 1* and then selling it yet, and probably won't.

Wouldn't this hurt you in the long run?  If you never sell those 1* covers, you never get any iso from them.  Are you also immediately selling all 2-cover 1*?  I don't feel like trying to math it to see what the net gain/loss is there

Others have done the math and I think it's somewhere above Level 150 or so that it's a net ISO loss to farm the 1*s for XP.

In more fearful, this is what I do. IM35, Storm and Spider-Man are all at 13 covers. Say I pull a whole bunch of standard tokens. I open up IM35 from my roster, who is 4/5/4. I'll apply a blue cover to make him 4/4/5, then a red cover to be 5/4/4, a yellow to go back to 4/5/4 and so on until I can't do it anymore. I repeat the process for the other two. I'm often left with a few covers for each character since it's probable to draw a few extra of one of the three colors. Whatever's left, I sell in bulk. I don't bother selling and rerostering the 2 cover 1*s. Call it a hybrid method. 

I get a little less ISO in the short term, but it gets me to the next level--and therefore the large ISO windfall--more quickly.

rocks52

Interesting.  After reading this thread, I just started rostering all the 1* characters and sell them when they get maxed out.  Sometimes before.  Iso loss is fairly negligible so whatever

Dormammu

DarthDeVo said:

Others have done the math and I think it's somewhere above Level 150 or so that it's a net ISO loss to farm the 1*s for XP.

It's not hard to figure out. For example, I am SHIELD Level 104 and it takes 4150xp for me to go up a level, and I'll receive 55,000 ISO...

You get 10xp for farming a 1-star
4150/10=415 (total xp needed divided by 1-star xp value)

So it would take 415 1-star covers to gain me a shield level. If I sold those 1-stars I would get 41,500 ISO
415*100=41,500 (ISO value of 1-stars needed to advance a SHIELD Level)

So it's a net ISO gain of 13,500. That amount is not worth it to me to bother with 1-star farming, I'll just take my 100 ISO now, but others may feel differently.