Allow us to rearrange creatures

wereotterwereotter Posts: 2,056 Chairperson of the Boards
Now with some of the tribal lord types in Ixalan, it's even more important than ever to have our creatures on the field in the proper order. This can be frustrated by either having a creature destroyed and the new cast version ending in the third spot, or by the order in which you draw them. For example in this new set, Captain Lannery Storm needs to be in the bottom slot, else she won't make a treasure before your other pirates attack, and none of them will get her boost. Additionally with Mavren Fein, you need your pile of vampire tokens in the third spot so any reinforced vampires can buff them before they attack.

It would be helpful to be able to either rearrange the creatures, or, if that creates too many potential issues regarding rearranging because of defenders being played, perhaps we as players can choose which of the three slots we want creatures to live in when we cast them. So a creature is cast, and we can place it in the second or third slot and now have it default always to the first.

Comments

  • NaiNai Age Unconfirmed Posts: 4 Just Dropped In
    Was going to make my own post about this but I agree this needs to be addressed ASAP. If this was like normal magic (Which oktagon seems like they have an interest in mimicking) these things would be covered in the "declare attackers step". Been having trouble with Goring Ceratops and Mavren Fein personally. 

    Spot wouldn't matter if all of the attacks triggered when you move to the attacking step, not when each individual creature attacks. Definitely aggravating, and goring ceratops seems to be way over costed since it isn't guaranteed in the first slot. Hope they fix this.
  • hawkyh1hawkyh1 Posts: 780 Critical Contributor
    edited February 2018
    being able to choose creature slots might cause balancing
    problems for creature/tokens that have prevent damage?

    HH
  • BullvinneBullvinne Age Unconfirmed Posts: 77 Match Maker
    edited February 2018
    This is also an issue with Goring Ceratops. I have actually removed it from my Huatli Dino deck because it almost always gets sent to the top and its ability is useless the majority of the time.

    I agree...if anything, creatures and enable buffs to other creatures on attack need to default to the bottom. So creatures like Goring Ceratops and others are actually useful.

    Or as @Nai pointed out, is have the buff enable on the attack step...that would work as well
  • wereotterwereotter Posts: 2,056 Chairperson of the Boards
    hawkyh1 said:
    being able to choose creature slots might cause balancing
    problems for creature/tokens that have prevent damage?

    HH
    I'm not sure I see how.... care to elaborate?
  • hawkyh1hawkyh1 Posts: 780 Critical Contributor
    prevent damage horse token would be always be
    positioned in the first creature slot? (sunmare token)

    HH
  • wereotterwereotter Posts: 2,056 Chairperson of the Boards
    hawkyh1 said:
    prevent damage horse token would be always be
    positioned in the first creature slot? (sunmare token)

    HH
    Yes, I get that, but I don't see why this is an issue. We already have prevent damage creatures that default to the first slot, and if you want those horses in the first slot, it's easy to put them there by giving them reach/defender.

    Problem here is you don't necessarily want some of the Ixalan creatures to have those defensive buffs. I want Captain Lannery Storm in the first spot, but I don't want to give her defender, and may not have the ability with the colors pirates run in. Similarly with vampires, you want your tokens in the third spot, but there's no way to get them there
  • hawkyh1hawkyh1 Posts: 780 Critical Contributor
    currently, hiding the sunmare behind it's prevent damage
    token requires an extra(usually specific) card. should the
    token be removed the process has to be repeated again
    to get the setup. otherwise you could just constantly hide
    the sunmare behind it's token that is given vigilance
    (knightly valour) every time a new token is created. cards
    like consul's lieutenant and drana, liberator of malakir have
    always preferred to be in the 1st creature slot.

    HH
  • hawkyh1hawkyh1 Posts: 780 Critical Contributor
    currently, hiding the sunmare behind it's prevent damage
    token requires an extra(usually specific) card. should the
    token be removed the process has to be repeated again
    to get the setup. otherwise you could just constantly hide
    the sunmare behind it's token that is given vigilance
    (knightly valour) every time a new token is created. cards
    like consul's lieutenant and drana, liberator of malakir have
    always preferred to be in the 1st creature slot.

    HH
  • wereotterwereotter Posts: 2,056 Chairperson of the Boards
    hawkyh1 said:
    currently, hiding the sunmare behind it's prevent damage
    token requires an extra(usually specific) card. should the
    token be removed the process has to be repeated again
    to get the setup. otherwise you could just constantly hide
    the sunmare behind it's token that is given vigilance
    (knightly valour) every time a new token is created. cards
    like consul's lieutenant and drana, liberator of malakir have
    always preferred to be in the 1st creature slot.

    HH
    Saving Grace and Mantle of Webs are a thing.... makes it really easy to put the token right in front. However your argument against it assumes the AI will know to do this.

    But as was mentioned the issue can also be solved by simply having all attack triggers resolve at the start of the combat step rather than when each creature individually attacks since the problem with creature order is entirely due to the attack triggers not going off until the creature actually attacks, and there are a lot of creatures in Ixalan that this impacts.

    Cards that will have this problem, for general reference:
    Fathom Fleet Captain
    Captain Lannery Storm
    Goring Ceratops
    Sanctum Seeker, when paired with Mavren Fein
    Mavren Fein
    Smuggler's Copter, when paired with Stromkirk Condemned
    Consul's Lieutenant
    Dauntless Aven
    Gilded Cerodon
  • hawkyh1hawkyh1 Posts: 780 Critical Contributor
    choosing creature slots also affects suppression bonds and
    any card that affects 1st creatures.

    HH
  • wereotterwereotter Posts: 2,056 Chairperson of the Boards
    hawkyh1 said:
    choosing creature slots also affects suppression bonds and
    any card that affects 1st creatures.

    HH
    That is something I thought of, but if they were to implement this change, Suppresion Bonds could always disable the lowest creature in the list (assuming you only had creatures in the 2nd and 3rd slots)
  • hawkyh1hawkyh1 Posts: 780 Critical Contributor
    edited February 2018
    what about suppression bonds + cast out? I meant also
    cards like brawlers plate(just shuffle the firststrike guy in
    when needed, ...firststrike flyer needed this turn). sphinx
    of the final word would be much tougher in that 3rd
    creature slot.

    HH
  • wereotterwereotter Posts: 2,056 Chairperson of the Boards
    hawkyh1 said:
    what about suppression bonds + cast out? I meant also
    cards like brawlers plate(just shuffle the firststrike guy in
    when needed, ...firststrike flyer needed this turn). sphinx
    of the final word would be much tougher in that 3rd
    creature slot.

    HH

    I addressed Suppression Bonds in my last comment, so I don't think I need to state that again, and cast out doesn't care what slot the creature is in.

    figuring in optimal blockers would add to the game rather than take something away. If I know my opponent is going to attack with a berserker, and I have a creature with first strike or double strike, I should be able to put that in front just the same as if I have a defender, I am able to give it first strike. I don't see this as an issue more as a tactical advantage that can be afforded to both sides of the field.

    And again, this assumes the AI will know to put certain creatures in certain spots. It's also possible that the AI will never rearrange its creatures if given the opportunity, much like it doesn't know to save up loyalty for better planeswalker effects, or how to cycle its cards after casting New Perspectives.

    And again, I wouldn't be upset if rather than being able to rearrange creatures (as was stated a few times before this) if all attack triggers happened at the start of combat rather than when each individual creature attacked. If that were the case, then the order of creatures on the board would be less of an issue.
  • FurksFurks Posts: 149 Tile Toppler
    Instead of allowing creatures to be reordered, they could change the game mechanics by adding a pre and post combat phase. All triggers would then have a chance to be triggered before or after all creatures have attacked. 
  • wereotterwereotter Posts: 2,056 Chairperson of the Boards
    The game used to work like that. Now it doesn’t. Didn’t matter as much before as only a few creatures needed certain spots. Now they’ve doubled that number with tribal matters mechanics. Something definitely needs to change to accommodate that. 
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