Define: Tappers(PVE)

Hadronic

I define tapping to be anytime you play a node and it gives no reward (iso, crit, etc) and rewards less than 5 pts

Pongie

LifeofAgony said:

Intentional hardcore tappers will tap a specific node up to multiple hours prior to the optimal grinding time.

Intentional moderate tappers will start optimal grind 5-20 minutes early to leave time at end of sub to tap a node.

Unitentional tappers will mistime their optimal grind time and use left over time to try and gain a few more points with the remaining time.

I'm in the last group (maybe the second group) but instead of using my left over time to gain a few more points tapping, I do my deadpool daily quest clears. 

shardwick

Hadronic said:

I define tapping to be anytime you play a node and it gives no reward (iso, crit, etc) and rewards less than 5 pts

Well, I've done that before and I'm not a tapper. I can be a bit ocd at times so like I may have a score that's at 69,994 so I'll hit a few more times to hit 70k even though the few extra pts won't matter in placement.

LifeofAgony

I think part of the non-vilification of the non-hardcore tappers is odds, if you’re in a bracket with tappers, there’s gonna be 1-6 hardcore ones already snagging the top top prize so the mid-range ones may not impact so much to cause as much vitriol.

i personally loathe everything about it and really really really wish it wouldn’t take a year to fix a problem the devs called attention to themselves as a problem.  But I am the vocal minority on that.

Hadronic

shardwick said:

Hadronic said:

I define tapping to be anytime you play a node and it gives no reward (iso, crit, etc) and rewards less than 5 pts

Well, I've done that before and I'm not a tapper. I can be a bit ocd at times so like I may have a score that's at 69,994 so I'll hit a few more times to hit 70k even though the few extra pts won't matter in placement.

I would argue that you tapped that node. Does that make you a tapper? No

The next question is, how many times does someone need to tap a node to be a tapper. Tapping the node 2 times to make your score a nice 70k does not make you a tapper, but you did tap a node a few times. I'm sure most everyone is guilty of tapping a node a couple times.

Bowgentle

If you miscalculate your grind and tap in the end - you're not a tapper.

If you start your end grind an hour or more before the optimal time with the intent of tapping to beat people who are 'only' playing optimal - you're a tapper.

If you see people 300+ points ahead of others - they're tappers.

It's not hard to recognize, and it's always the same people from the same alliances.
Come to 2.9 if you want to see the same names in the T5, always with at least 800 points up on 6th, sometimes up to 3000.

Daiches

Bowgentle said:

If you miscalculate your grind and tap in the end - you're not a tapper.

If you start your end grind an hour or more before the optimal time with the intent of tapping to beat people who are 'only' playing optimal - you're a tapper.

If you see people 300+ points ahead of others - they're tappers.

It's not hard to recognize, and it's always the same people from the same alliances.
Come to 2.9 if you want to see the same names in the T5, always with at least 800 points up on 6th, sometimes up to 3000.

3.9.1 currently has 10 people tapping in T10. It's pretty mandatory here.

HoundofShadow

Tappers = players who play certain node over and over again to gain an advantage over other players.

OR

Any player who has more points than the maximum points possible in a 4 + 3 or 4+1+3 clearing is a tapper. 

JSP869

huktonfonix said:

Is it when I hit refresh on the forums every 30 seconds to see if Brigby has posted Civil War info yet?

I thought it was when I've gone a few days without opening any tokens, and now I have to open 20-30 Standard Tokens (or more) in one sitting.

KC_Hammer

Daiches said:

3.9.1 currently has 10 people tapping in T10. It's pretty mandatory here.

What do you mean by 3.9.1?

fmftint

KC_Hammer said:

Daiches said:

3.9.1 currently has 10 people tapping in T10. It's pretty mandatory here.

What do you mean by 3.9.1?

Shard  3, CL9,  1st bracket

animaniactoo

LifeofAgony said:

i personally loathe everything about it and really really really wish it wouldn’t take a year to fix a problem the devs called attention to themselves as a problem.  But I am the vocal minority on that.

FWIW, they said that they didn't think that tapping a node 1000x a day was a healthy way to play and the didn't want to encourage it. But they also made it clear (read Brigby's original post) that they considered that about tapping a trivially easy node. I didn't notice the language initially but it's right there - and maybe that was more reflective of what was getting tapped back then and they didn't mean "well only those trivially easy modes". But...

My cynical take a year or so later is that they're fine with people doing it for harder nodes because it's not quite "mindless" play, and every argument I have seen about the need for the option as tie-breakers or an advantage to someone who doesn't start the initial grind right as it opens, is null and void imo. Because the number of times there is a tie-breaker where two people are going to be so exactly lined up on their timing that they are going to tie vs being off by 1 or 2 pts is pretty slim chances. And in every case where tapping is an advantage for me because I started late, hey, the guy who started 20 minutes ahead of me can do the exact same thing, so there's no "actual" advantage to me.

Somewhere, somebody is fine with this behavior and whatever it does to the stats for player engagement/time investment. Right up until it blows up in their faces because people who aren't willing to invest that kind of time and are too competitive to take it laying down give up the game in frustration.

Also I just want bragging rights that I called that this was still a thing way back when it was just starting to take off http://https//forums.d3go.com/discussion/66246/pointgrinding-in-pve-still-seems-to-be-widespread/p1 even though many of you doubted me.

LifeofAgony

“Hey Everyone,

We’ve recently noticed some players have been repeatedly playing missions (upwards of 1,000 times!) in order to gain higher placements in Events. While this immense amount of dedication is certainly impressive, we feel that this just isn’t a healthy way to play the game, and it isn’t fair to players who don’t want to grind trivially easy missions for a significant amount of time.”

It doesnt say anything about which node.  Trivially easy missions can be applied to any node, like say, a “hard” node that is 3 goons.  Or a node made trivially easy by say using boosted 5* DD.  

Either way you choose to read it, it still comes down repeatedly playing mission isn’t a healthy way to play the game.  That’s the message I take from it.  Posted on 3/28/17.  

The rockett

Hey a tapping thread I didn’t start!!  WOOOOOO!   @LifeofAgony really just summed up my thoughts.  This is effecting all slices and including top 10 ally placement.  The average of what is needed for a top 10 ally is insane at this point. 

shardwick

Hadronic said:

shardwick said:

Hadronic said:

I define tapping to be anytime you play a node and it gives no reward (iso, crit, etc) and rewards less than 5 pts

Well, I've done that before and I'm not a tapper. I can be a bit ocd at times so like I may have a score that's at 69,994 so I'll hit a few more times to hit 70k even though the few extra pts won't matter in placement.

I would argue that you tapped that node. Does that make you a tapper? No

The next question is, how many times does someone need to tap a node to be a tapper. Tapping the node 2 times to make your score a nice 70k does not make you a tapper, but you did tap a node a few times. I'm sure most everyone is guilty of tapping a node a couple times.

By your definition just playing the game would make someone a tapper.

Anyway, the easy solution is to keep a node at 0 after 7-10 clears so people can still hit a node a few times if the scores are very close. But, the best solution to me is to go to a progression only system where placement rewards are built into progression. People can put as much or as little effort into the game as they want, achieve the rewards that they want and, most importantly, play on their time instead of being on some fixed schedule.

Ducky

The rockett said:

Hey a tapping thread I didn’t start!!  WOOOOOO!   @LifeofAgony really just summed up my thoughts.  This is effecting all slices and including top 10 ally placement.  The average of what is needed for a top 10 ally is insane at this point. 

That also has to do with mercing, but that's an entirely different subject. 

Hadronic

shardwick said:

Hadronic said:u

shardwick said:

Hadronic said:

I define tapping to be anytime you play a node and it gives no reward (iso, crit, etc) and rewards less than 5 pts

Well, I've done that before and I'm not a tapper. I can be a bit ocd at times so like I may have a score that's at 69,994 so I'll hit a few more times to hit 70k even though the few extra pts won't matter in placement.

I would argue that you tapped that node. Does that make you a tapper? No

The next question is, how many times does someone need to tap a node to be a tapper. Tapping the node 2 times to make your score a nice 70k does not make you a tapper, but you did tap a node a few times. I'm sure most everyone is guilty of tapping a node a couple times.

By your definition just playing the game would make someone a tapper.

Anyway, the easy solution is to keep a node at 0 after 7-10 clears so people can still hit a node a few times if the scores are very close. But, the best solution to me is to go to a progression only system where placement rewards are built into progression. People can put as much or as little effort into the game as they want, achieve the rewards that they want and, most importantly, play on their time instead of being on some fixed schedule.

Not sure how you got to that conclusion using my definition.

ZeroKarma

Everyone who scores in the highest levels of placement for PvE is a tapper to some extent. It has been outlined pretty well here.

Timing your clear at the end to have zero time left when you are finished is considered “optimal” but is is extremely difficult and risky. Most people, even the best PvE players will have 5-10 minutes after their final sub clears which they will fill by tapping the 4E or the hardest regular node to fill time and make sure they don’t get passed by someone who may be slightly more optimal.

The true tappers are the ones that will hit these nodes repeatedly well in advance of a sub end to make up for a) slow early grinds where they are well behind the fastest players or b) people that can’t play on the schedule dictated by the game and stil want to place.

I feel sympathy for b, because real life is real life and we all want rewards. PvE is something that isn’t conducive to everyone at the highest tiers of play that have limited windows for MPQ. But group a simply has acknowledged that they can’t play and win matches fast enough to place well so they go for the allowed PvE participation trophy which is most time = most rewards.

TBH - PVP is similar in that people that are able to shield and hop 6 times a day will be able to beat others who can’t. But you will normally have to beat very tough teams to get there.

Lets be clear. With the latest PvE scaling, and if you look at the people who are egregiously tapping, they ARE hitting trivial nodes. The only node in PvE, even at Cl9 that is not trivial is the 5* essential. Everything else is Thanos fodder or easy pickings for any 5* team in this game right now.

0_efx_0

What have I done, I only asked for a definition of tappers. I’ll read all of this later and try to process it all.