Which characters need a buff in health?

Waddles_Pines

Along with power creep, there's also older characters that suffer from low HP.  Usually the rationale behind lower health is invisibility or healing.  I was going through my characters and my highest lvl character is Gwenpool.  Sure she's fun to use and helpful at times, but I looked at her HP and sheesh, At lvl 302 she has 13.3k HP, Niko @ lvl 229 has pretty much the same HP. 

What's your character that has low HP for no good reason?

Daiches

Waddles_Pines said:

Along with power creep, there's also older characters that suffer from low HP.  Usually the rationale behind lower health is invisibility or healing.  I was going through my characters and my highest lvl character is Gwenpool.  Sure she's fun to use and helpful at times, but I looked at her HP and sheesh, At lvl 302 she has 13.3k HP, Niko @ lvl 229 has pretty much the same HP. 

What's your character that has low HP for no good reason?

HP is part of the overall character balancing. A long time ago almost every character that existed got a large healthbuff.. except some at the time very powerful support characters like Storm 2star and Hood.
Any healer by the way will automatically have lower health (Wolverines, Phoenix, etc..)

Waddles_Pines

I mention Gwenpool cause she doesn't heal, turn invisible, not really a support character, etc.  It'd be cool if one of her "cheat" codes was to heal herself or the team...

Daiches

Waddles_Pines said:

I mention Gwenpool cause she doesn't heal, turn invisible, not really a support character, etc.  It'd be cool if one of her "cheat" codes was to heal herself or the team...

Girls often get less health by default. There was a thread calling this out somewhere in the last year

Shintok17

Doctor Strange, OML, 2* Storm, 2* Black Widow, Loki, 3* Wolverine, 5* Hulk, and 3* Deadpool. These are the ones that I have that I have noticed are not up to par with the rest in Health. Some are probably that way because of their healing capabilities.  

DAZ0273

Wasp should have health at least comparable to Invisible Woman as neither particularly rely on being athletes.

Dormammu

While I understand that the rarity (or number of stars) has nothing to do with a character's power or toughness in the comic books, I always felt like the amount of health a character had should - at least in relation to other characters of the same rarity. But there's too many inconsistencies to believe the developers agree.

Like, why does Maxpun have 4k more health than XFW? There's nothing physically exceptional about the Punisher. He's just a normal human with a lot of experience and a lot of guns. But Wolverine enjoys his mutant stamina and durability (not related to his healing factor) which has been documented to propel most mutants above peak-human.

Why does 3-star Hawkeye have 3k more health than Loki? Hawkeye is in pretty good shape, sure, but Loki's a friggin god that can withstand blows from Thor and the Hulk. If either Thor or the Hulk punched Hawkeye, they'd squish him like a grape.

There's even inconsistencies among roles. If AP generation/theft is balanced with less health, why doe IM40 have so much more health than Loki or Hood?

The only consistency I see is among healers - they always seem to have lower health.

DAZ0273

Dormammu said:

While I understand that the rarity (or number of stars) has nothing to do with a character's power or toughness in the comic books, I always felt like the amount of health a character had should - at least in relation to other characters of the same rarity. But there's too many inconsistencies to believe the developers agree.

Like, why does Maxpun have 4k more health than XFW? There's nothing physically exceptional about the Punisher. He's just a normal human with a lot of experience and a lot of guns. But Wolverine enjoys his mutant stamina and durability (not related to his healing factor) which has been documented to propel most mutants above peak-human.

Why does 3-star Hawkeye have 3k more health than Loki? Hawkeye is in pretty good shape, sure, but Loki's a friggin god that can withstand blows from Thor and the Hulk. If either Thor or the Hulk punched Hawkeye, they'd squish him like a grape.

There's even inconsistencies among roles. If AP generation/theft is balanced with less health, why doe IM40 have so much more health than Loki or Hood?

The only consistency I see is among healers - they always seem to have lower health.

Apart from Silver Surfer who is mid range.

Waddles_Pines

Dormammu said:

Like, why does Maxpun have 4k more health than XFW? There's nothing physically exceptional about the Punisher. He's just a normal human with a lot of experience and a lot of guns.

Slightly off-topic to my own topic, but another question is why the cover used for PunMax is of him more mature, but the in game art shows him as spending too much time lifting things and putting them down...

Dormammu said:

The only consistency I see is among healers - they always seem to have lower health.

Which brings me back to why o why does a non healing Gwenpool has less HP than Nico (70+ lvls lower) who can heal. 

*sigh*

Caprila

Waddles_Pines said:

Dormammu said:

Like, why does Maxpun have 4k more health than XFW? There's nothing physically exceptional about the Punisher. He's just a normal human with a lot of experience and a lot of guns.

Slightly off-topic to my own topic, but another question is why the cover used for PunMax is of him more mature, but the in game art shows him as spending too much time lifting things and putting them down...

The in-game art is accurate to how they draw him in the comic itself (the covers for that series depict him very differently from the art on the pages).

Waddles_Pines

Caprila said:

The in-game art is accurate to how they draw him in the comic itself (the covers for that series depict him very differently from the art on the pages).

Thanks for the insight, I'm starting to read a lot of comics on Marvel Unlimited, but haven't gotten around to reading Pun, though I think I will start reading Frankencastle just because it sounds like the most absurd idea for poor Frank...

broll

Dormammu said:

Like, why does Maxpun have 4k more health than XFW? There's nothing physically exceptional about the Punisher. He's just a normal human with a lot of experience and a lot of guns. But Wolverine enjoys his mutant stamina and durability (not related to his healing factor) which has been documented to propel most mutants above peak-human.

Punisher is a bullet sponge without a healing power.  Wolverine is one with a healing power.  I think that makes sense personally. Punisher pushes through pain and injury to an exceptional level and it's one of the reasons that makes him who he is.  Wolverine does the same to a point, but in game where there needs to be balance between characters having him have a huge health pool and a true heal would be unbalanced.

Dormammu

broll said:
 Wolverine does the same to a point, but in game where there needs to be balance between characters having him have a huge health pool and a true heal would be unbalanced.

I think XFW's healing is balanced by its 3-turn countdown tile and 9AP cost. If he had constant regeneration like Patch or OML I might agree with you, but right now XFW's health is outclassed by the bulk of the 3-star tier.

My Lv 254 Patch has 10,320 Health with passive regeneration every turn
My Lv 287 XFW has 11,856 Health with that crummy countdown which costs 9 AP

dave7099

She's a glass cannon . 15k damage for 10ap is pretty great . There's a few characters like that.  Kate, Iceman, mockingbird. Cheap hard hitters. Xfw is the exception.  He's terrible

DrDevilDinosaur

If I recall correctly, a long time ago the devs said they think of character Health in terms of "Endurance in the fight" rather than actual health (so it's a poorly named mechanic that they were in charge of naming, but... go figure).

Anyway, the concept is that this stat is essentially a rating of how long the character is willing to stay in the fight. Some characters are just naturally weaker than others, so they have a smaller health pool because they would be overpowered much faster. For someone like Loki, the lower stat is supposed to indicate that he's really just likely to tinykitty off because he's bored or he's trying to be mischievous and whimsical or whatever.

Bruce Banner really should have been the hallmark implementation of this concept - Banner himself is weak, he's just a scientist who's not even close to peak human physical ability, but Hulk? Well, Hulk basically has infinite health.

And yes, as others have pointed out, all of this is supposed to be weighed up against each character's abilities.

DAZ0273

I've thought of another one - Galactus if R4G are boosted.

Warbringa

The only way in which health matters is in character balance.  I could care less about what a character in the comics health was or should be based but more on how well does it balance out with the characters powers.  I do agree that XFW needs a health buff, not because he is Wolverine but because as a character, his health is just too low given his other abilities, especially a conditional countdown healing ability.  Silver Surfer should have more health.  While that alone won't make him a top tier 5*, it can't hurt.  I am ok with Gwenpool's low health because her green and purple powers are really good, which more than make up for a lower health pool.  

Overall though health pool is generally a secondary characteristic.  Powers are way more important as the difference between 1000-3000 health in a tier for health is generally fairly low impact.  

Jarvind

Generally the more damage a character can deal quickly, the lower their health. Healing or AP-stealing abilities also tend to result in lower health. There are exceptions though - Thoress has a ton of health despite hitting pretty hard, and Gambit doesn't have particularly low health despite being the devourer of worlds. Yondu can heal, hit hard AND mess with enemy AP, but his health is fairly average.

Straycat

Powers that reward you/ make you take damage also tend to have better healthpools. Thing, Red Hulk, Hulkbuster, Venom, Agent Venom, Thanos. But that is sort of built into their overall design where you'd expect them to be tougher. I have no info to back it up, but doesn't higher match damage also lead to higher health?

Dormammu said:

Like, why does Maxpun have 4k more health than XFW? There's nothing physically exceptional about the Punisher. He's just a normal human with a lot of experience and a lot of guns. But Wolverine enjoys his mutant stamina and durability (not related to his healing factor) which has been documented to propel most mutants above peak-human.

Why does 3-star Hawkeye have 3k more health than Loki? Hawkeye is in pretty good shape, sure, but Loki's a friggin god that can withstand blows from Thor and the Hulk. If either Thor or the Hulk punched Hawkeye, they'd squish him like a grape.

I think another reason for lower health is annoying passives. Hood, Loki, Dr Strange, prebuff Wasp.