PVE Fix Suggestion - Change how Placement is Earned

dlegendary0ne

Don't know if this has been discussed already, but I have some thoughts on how to fix PVE.  For me, the time requirements are a pain, and tapping is the only way to get top placement.  So I thought of some ways to fix this:

PLACEMENT

• Change Placement rewards to a time-based system where the player with the lowest total play time is the winner
• Each match played is timed and recorded
  
• Each node can be played up to six times
  
• The timer is started manually by the player when the board loads 
  
• The total times for each match played will be added up for each player to determine the winner for the (sub)event
  
• The player with the lowest total play time for the event gets the top spot
  

* After the last reward is earned for a node, the node can be played multiple times for a better final play time.  The previous 5 plays of the node are locked in and cannot be changed.

* Players can opt out of a match at any time without a time penalty

* Not sure what to do if there's a tie:  Maybe give the same rank for those that are tied, or have them face the other's team, or maybe a sudden death timed boss fight that throws a RNG element into the fight to guarantee both players will not get the same times.  You could also have them fight pvp versions of the other person's team.  

PROGRESSION

• Progression rewards will remain points based
• Whenever you win a match in a node, you earn 1 out of six rewards for that node
  
• Points earned are limited.  When the total number is reached, all rewards have been earned
  

ADVANTAGES

• Players can start and stop anytime the event is running without the risk of losing placement 
• Players can recover in between matches to maximize health pack usage (to offset the loss, raise the price of health packs)   
• Players play when they're at their best - making the game more reflective of a player's roster strength
  
• Enjoy the story - Since the timer doesn't start until the player activates it within the match
  
• Eliminates the need for tapping - since points are finite and only the time played is what counts toward placement, there's no need to play a match over and over to gain placement, and thus, no tapping.
  

These are just some thoughts I had.  If there's a thread about this already, please feel free to move this.  Thanks

Smart80

Nice worked out suggestion, but possibly needs too much to be changed.

I think multiplying all points by 10, but keep the minimum points per node the same, is easiest way to prevent crazy tapping. Tapping will have negative result..

Second idea would be to lock each node after 6, 7 or maybe 10 hits..

And this indeed needs to be fixed...

dlegendary0ne

Thanks.  It's a lot of changes to make, but I think it'd be worth it.  Tapping of any kind undermines the point of having a strong roster.  People shouldn't get rewards just because they happen to have more time to play than I do.  With a timer based system, players can be ranked solely on the merit of their rosters, which is why they changed xp gains to be based on changes to their roster.  It falls in line with their philosophy.

The other BIG thing this fixes is not having to play game for large amounts of time.  I HATE having to play this game for 1-2hrs at a time every day because I want to do well.  That fix alone would stop the game from interfering with real life so much because it lets me play at my own pace.  If I'm being honest, this fix is more important than tapping personally, but I don't think you can fix one without fixing the other.

Tiggida

All they have to do is make all the nodes go to zero and refresh normally like all the other nodes do. Then placement basically comes down to who finishes the initial 4X clear the fastest AND who does their final clears closest to the end (i.e. who plays the most optimally) Having some nodes that sit at 3 or 4 pts is the reason why people can tap. I don't understand why people suggest anything other than this as a solution. It's the easiest solution and the devs should be able to implement it in no time with little effort. If you look at scores  in brackets where there are no tappers in any given pve, there are pretty much never any ties. I personally have never seen a tie (except that one test where everyone tied due to a max amount of points available) and I've been playing since beta. The devs have stated those tapping nodes are there to prevent ties. They've basically created a "solution" to a problem that doesn't even exist. 

Scores will be SUPER close, but I doubt you'd see any ties with this solution.

Smart80

As they stated the tie problem as an issue, the 10x points value remains more likely to be the solution the devs could agree on...

Tiggida

Smart80 said:

As they stated the tie problem as an issue, the 10x points value remains more likely to be the solution the devs could agree on...

See that's the thing. Ties are not an issue becuause people don't have the same amount of pts available when they have a system where nodes refresh. To get a tie, people would have to start and finish all of their clears at the EXACT same time over an entire event. Even a slight difference in timing will produce different scores. I have no idea why they think ties would be rampant. 

Smart80

Not sure what level player you are, but when high end player do their clear in close to 20 minutes, the times are very close and very possible in between point refreshes. And as they tend to check when competition start their grind, thats pretty much the same as well.
points dont refresh every second or even every minute...

but still, whether ties are indeed a problem or not is pretty much irrelevant, cause its stated by devs that it is, so you cant simply ignore it for your solution.....

multiplying the points by 10 and keeping the node points as minimum as they are, tapping for hours will not help your score compared to perfect timed grind, yet still make it possible to somewhat redeem some points if timed wrong. But most important, its easy to implement in game code im sure and gameplay will stay the same as well...

Tiggida

I am high enough end that I can compete for top placement if I want to. I've finished clears within one minute of someone else and our scores differ by 1-5 pts. I fully understand how it works. Like I said, scores will be veeeeerrrrryyy close, but tied? I highly doubt it. I've never seen it and I've played plenty of pves competitively/optimally over the years. Have you ever seen a tie? Just curious because I personally have never seen one.

Tiggida

I have seen scores as close as 10 pts or so at the end of an event though. Just never an exact tie. 

Smart80

Still think you dont get my point. Its not about you thinking there is no issue with ties, or if there are no ties at all. Only thing that matters for devs is that they see it as an issue and wont care about a solution that ‘risks’ ties...

Kid_Dash

You could have the last clear time for each node be timed down to a time increment small enough (maybe nanosecond or microsecond) to determine a clear winner.  But only the last match so it doesn't stress the servers too much. 

broll

Tiggida said:

All they have to do is make all the nodes go to zero and refresh normally like all the other nodes do. Then placement basically comes down to who finishes the initial 4X clear the fastest AND who does their final clears closest to the end (i.e. who plays the most optimally) Having some nodes that sit at 3 or 4 pts is the reason why people can tap. I don't understand why people suggest anything other than this as a solution. It's the easiest solution and the devs should be able to implement it in no time with little effort. If you look at scores  in brackets where there are no tappers in any given pve, there are pretty much never any ties. I personally have never seen a tie (except that one test where everyone tied due to a max amount of points available) and I've been playing since beta. The devs have stated those tapping nodes are there to prevent ties. They've basically created a "solution" to a problem that doesn't even exist. 

Scores will be SUPER close, but I doubt you'd see any ties with this solution.

AND people who have time to play in the existing brackets.  I would love to see the OPs suggestions because I don't and my rewards suffer every single event because of it.  Remove the restrictions for the game to force you to play at their time and let you play on your time.  If I could do my clears between 7 & 10 PM EST I could probably T10 most events, instead I get T50 with the occasional T20 every event.

dlegendary0ne

Tiggida said:

All they have to do is make all the nodes go to zero and refresh normally like all the other nodes do. Then placement basically comes down to who finishes the initial 4X clear the fastest AND who does their final clears closest to the end (i.e. who plays the most optimally) Having some nodes that sit at 3 or 4 pts is the reason why people can tap. I don't understand why people suggest anything other than this as a solution. It's the easiest solution and the devs should be able to implement it in no time with little effort. If you look at scores  in brackets where there are no tappers in any given pve, there are pretty much never any ties. I personally have never seen a tie (except that one test where everyone tied due to a max amount of points available) and I've been playing since beta. The devs have stated those tapping nodes are there to prevent ties. They've basically created a "solution" to a problem that doesn't even exist. 

Scores will be SUPER close, but I doubt you'd see any ties with this solution.

That solves the tapping issue, but still gives no flexibility on when you can play, which is the other big problem I have.  Grind for 30mins-1hr, then play another 30mins-1hr for 4/6 rewards is a lot of time to devote to a game every day at once.  The timer based solution addresses this.  Yeah it's an overhaul, but the quality of life improvements will keep players in the game for longer I think.