Should I Sell My 5*?

Ironica
Ironica Posts: 6 Just Dropped In
edited January 2018 in MPQ Tips and Guides
Though I have only been playing for 160+ days, I did manage to get a five star Black Widow (black cover).  I have been using her a lot for power hits and the passive ability is nice when used with Ironman 40 yellow ability.  However, I'm at the point that I'm only focusing on three stars and she is hurting my PVP matches (as most times, I'm facing someone with five stars (though Dr Strange sure helps me out :smile: )).  Since I wasn't wise as first and bought too many packs, my space is somewhat limited and I am unable to not open packs (don't have that type of patience :wink: ), I was thinking about selling her to free a spot and lower the PVP matches to my level (I have found a nice 3* team with Hawkeye, Ironman M40, and Dr. Strange).

So, what say ye?  Should I Sell to free up a slot and lower the PVP matches or just keep her so I have one of her covers when I get to the point of building up 5*s?

Comments

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'm new here too. I have played for about 2 months. Based on my experience, I don't think selling your 5* will affect your MMR much. Back when I got a few two stars champed and leveled to between ~110-120, the game was showing me teams with 2*/3* and 5* at one cover. At that point of time, my highest leveled characters was 2* at level ~110-120. Right now, I'm meeting many team that has either one or two 5* with 1-4 covers now. 

    What kind of teams are you seein PvP and Simulator?

  • Ironica
    Ironica Posts: 6 Just Dropped In
    Sometimes i see teams that have 300+ 5* while others have an average of lvl 200s while my highest one (excluding my 5*) is 173.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    The typical levels of 5* I see are: 255, 270, 300, 330.

    What I gathered so far regarding MMR are:

    1) the level of the opponent's team that you will usually see is the average level of your top 3-7 characters. If your 3* is/are boosted, it will use the boosted level instead.

    2) your win rates affect the kind of opponents that you will see. The MMR will pair you with opponents of similar win rate as well.

    3) The higher your points, the more exposure you will get. This means that even players with champion 5*/4* will be able to see you. 

    One other theory might be a lot of new players are using their CP to open Latest/Classic tokens and they got 5* by luck. So, they team their 2* or 3* with their 5*. So, even if you sell your 5* BW, you might still be seeing those teams. 

    That might explain why I was seeing teams with 5* even though I only have 2* back then.

    Based on my experience, I doubt selling your 5* would have much effect on your MMR.

    However, if you want to make space for another character, maybe you have to ask yourself how reliant are you on 5*BW in PvP/Simulator Training. By the way, how many champed 3* do you have?

    I think it would be better to have another opinion from a much seasoned players. 
  • Ironica
    Ironica Posts: 6 Just Dropped In
    My top three (excluding BW) are 173 (3* Cyclops), 172 (M40 Ironman), and 169 (Dr Strange).

    Usually, if someone has the basic 5* character (like I do), it doesn't bother me.  However, when they have the lvl 300+ 5*, a lvl 270 5*, and a champion 4*, it's impossible (even with my lvl 169 Dr Strange) to even come close to that.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    It's a good thing you can pay to skip. It's possible to win that team, but you would be using 2 to 3 healthpacks after the match. If you were to weigh the pros and cons, winning those teams aren't worth it.

    I would skip teams like those that you mentioned. Simply because the match damage is too much for me to take it. Looking at all your top level characters, I think you would be seeing champed 3* 60-70% of the time?

    What decision did you make? 
  • Ironica
    Ironica Posts: 6 Just Dropped In
    edited January 2018
    I did end up selling her as I found a nice combo (IM M40, Dr Strange, and 3* Hawkguy) that is quite fun (M40 recharge mixed with Hawkeye blue powers let me fire off multiple ones at once (plus having multiple strike tiles and just hitting them when he runs out of arrows is quite lethal)).  It gave me the extra slot for another 3* and I haven't seen any 5* in PVP except the basic lvl 270 that you get when you are lucky to pull one.
  • Ironica
    Ironica Posts: 6 Just Dropped In
    Also, with PVP, I'm not looking to be first at all but to get the overall stone's points rewards (hope that made sense :tongue:)
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2018
    It's great to know that you're happy with your decision. Continue having fun with MPQ. 

    I think you are referring to Hero Points (gold) or Command Points (star-shaped).
  • Ironica
    Ironica Posts: 6 Just Dropped In
    I mean the progression points.
  • LeaveMyCookies
    LeaveMyCookies Posts: 62 Match Maker
    I'll share my experience. I'm almost 1 year in, day 320ish. For new players with weak rosters 5* heroes are amazing for the prologue, because it has a fixed opponent levels. With thr recent changes to how PvE scaling works 5* are viable in low lvl SCLs (up until like SCL 5), because the match damage itself that the 5* can offer is enough. After that it falls off and you find yourself relying on active and passive skills to do the work, and without extra covers that 5* won't scale that well. 

    Another note is that even if you get multiple covers for a 5*, do not, I repeat DO NOT increase the level of that hero cause it will completely screw your PvP match making.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2018
    I got a couple of 5* (one of them leveled to 275) from Classic Tokens while building up my 3* (a few champed @ level ~170).  But, I've already sold all my 5*. My experience with MMR reflects no change even after selling all my 5*. I think the SCL somehow plays a part in the opponents you meet as well. I'm still being matched with level 300+ 5* or 4*, but it's not a big deal anyway. I'd just skip them. I think your score in PvP also plays a part in the kind of opponents that you meet.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,480 Chairperson of the Boards
    SCL has no effect on what teams you are able to fight. It breaks down like this:

    SCL - This determines the prize table that you achieve via placement and progression. This will also, in theory, determine how likely it is that you can place higher in your bracket as it is assumed that players would play in SCL appropriate levels and thus obtain scores relevant to their roster strength. However - don't count on it. It is not at all strange to find Champed 5* players going down to lower levels to obtain high placement.

    Who you can fight:

    This is determind by various factors

    1.) MMR - nobody really knows how this works but it is generally believed that the game takes into account your 3 highest levelled characters (included boosted characters) when searching for opponents to match you with and I believe also the number of covers (could be wrong about that) - there is a range within this value that means you can meet lower and higher ranked teams. If you level your 5* from the 255 basic level too high then it will eventually have an impact, especially if it is a bad boost week for your 3's but if your 3* boost beyond the level of any low covered 5 then the impact should not be too severe. If you are seeing low level 5* (and reaching level 300 with a 5* does not require many covers) this is because MMR believes that you are operating within the same "range" in terms of roster strength and current score.

    Your defensive team is based upon the strongest team you used last - this was changed from the previous situation to eliminate a tactic referred to as "cupcakes" which players could use to boost scores by deliberaltely leaving weak teams and then co-operating in third party chatrooms to enable them to climb off each other.

    From my personal experience, I have multiple champed 4's, the highest of which is lvl 280 and I can see teams that are at the 3* level quite often at a PvP start but as my points tally rises I will generally run into similar 4* champed teams before hitting a wall of R4G/Gamora/Medusa. It is not uncommon for my opponents to have 4* boosting over lvl400 which is out of reach of even my boosted 4*.

    2.) The game can potentially match you with any other player who is playing in the time slice you choose. That includes players of a much higher level than you. However, until you obtain a certain score, your teams will normally be invisible to higher level players.

    3.) Score - the game takes into account your score and the higher you get determines the amount of points you gain from winning a match, this is determined by the difference in player scores. As it is possible for a players score to have changed between the time you queue them and the time your battle is completed, the amount of points you can win may change also (upawrds or more likely downwards).

    Players who "front run" PvP will be particularly juicy targets because they could be worth 50 - 60 points to a player with a low score but on retaliation, the low score player will be worth considerably less points. When you see players with scores in the mid 30's, this normally means they are around the same score level as you currently. Higher players can eventually "break" MMR but you are unlikely to be much of a target because points that can be scored are determined by the difference in players scores - a player at 1000+ points seeing a lower scoring team it will only be worth very low points to them, whereas in reverse that high scoring player is worth mega-points.

    4.) When you play. Obviously who is active at any point in your time slice will influence who you can queue. If there aren't any players of similar roster strength for you to fight, MMR will stretch to it's broadest reaches to try and match you. Unfortunately, this likely means that other active players with points worth pursuing are more likely to be in the upper range of your MMR and thus more difficult to beat.

     

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,480 Chairperson of the Boards

    On the topic of selling 5* characters – this is a mixed bag.

    On the one hand, 5* are tough to get, take up space and they are an extravagance and may sit with 1 cover for a long time.

    On the other hand, their relatively high health at low levels and high match damage can help. If you are able to run a team that produces strike tiles, such as 3* Blade that match damage can stack up. A non levelled 5* can match damage to death easy PvE rounds and also the Dat Required character portion of DDQ in super quick time saving your other characters for tougher later rounds.

    If you don’t level them too high then you can comfortably keep them rostered whilst you build your 3* tier as boosted 3’s will scale beyond.





  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    @DAZ023

    Excellent posts and insights for newer players. I think I have read the longer post somewhere before in D3 forum or maybe I'm having Deja Vu.

    In PvP, I think it could be an advantage or adisadvantage to start early. If I start early and hit 500 points, the opponents that I would be seeing would have about 20k to 30k hp for each of their characters. It would be risky to fight against them. It's a team with a total of 60k to 90hp vs my team with a total of 30k hp. One interesting thing to note is when I wake up the following day, I would be hit for 150 to 180 points. When I checked those players, most of them are already in 4* or 5* land and they are well covered or champed. Like what you said, it could be due to the limited number of players early in the PvP.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,480 Chairperson of the Boards
    Nothing wrong in starting early (especially as this will normally guarantee seed teams for up to 100+ points for "free") as somebody has to start generating points but it depends very much on what your goal is. If it is a certain progression reward and you want to rush to it and can do so in one session then don't care if you are smacked back down then great! Otherwise you shield out until you are ready to go again or you have to gamble if you don't want to spend HP.

    One of the elements of PvP is trying to work out what your "float point" is - i.e. the score you can reach before attacks start hitting and if you don't want to lose points you have to shield. It's not something that can be taught beyond trial and error in multiple PvPs but if you get a handle on it it means you can generally run up to that zone and then sit there waiting for better targets to queue and healthpacks to regen. Of course, if you overshoot then you can paint a target on your head. Try and take note of how far you can go with your roster before you are getting hits.

    At this point you will also want to leave out a strong defensive team to make anyone who does happen to be able to queue you to have second thoughts about attacking. PvP players are understandably adverse to receiving damage to their characters but also want quick matches. Anyone who guarantees taking some damage or dragging things out might save you some hits.