Premature transition to the end game??

Daredevil217

My situation:

350k Iso (with Rogue and Sandman needing to be champed/dying on the vine).
84 LT
6600 CP
43 4 Star champ’s but only 5 latest. 

Daredevil is my favorite superhero. I’m thrilled that he’s in the upper tier of characters in the game. And I have only a single cover of his. God mode Gambit also happens to be in latests as well.

Now I have no desire to jump into 5* land. I enjoy my 4s wayyy too much. That said. I’d love a fully covered Murdock that I could soft cap or something and of course Gambit isn’t bad either. I know that if you don’t strike while characters are in packs they are gone forever. So if I ever want to get a fully covered Daredevil I have to strike right now as he’s set to leave packs. However, I don’t have the Iso or latest champs to support all the covers I’d get along the way and would have IMMENSE waste when like I said, I don’t even want the 5* game anyway. 

I’m open to any thoughts you might have.  Thanks!

fight4thedream

There are a few things you should consider:

1. How much am I enjoying the game now? Will acquiring said character(s) improve my overall experience of the game?

2. Why am I hoarding my CP? For specific characters I want or to get the new "hotness" that will allow me to be competitive in PvP and/or PvE?

Something else you might want to keep in mind is that acquiring 5* has actually changed significantly over the last few months:

1. 5* debut token: You now get an option of 2 older 5* characters with the addition of the new character in a special token set. As long as the devs continue to utilize such a distribution method, you can at least hope for another shot at getting DD in the future (along with a new 5* character). Obviously, whether they continue to do this in the future is not guaranteed.

2. 4* champed rewards: We are now seeing the devs roll out 5* characters in 4* champed rewards. I imagine if you are aiming for DD, you might want to focus your Bonus Heroes on Elektra and Kingpin. 

3. Heroes for Hire: You can buy one classic 5* character per PvE event at 250 CP and a latest at 500 CP. Of course, considering the system it will take you a very long time to acquire all DD covers and even though 250CP is a pretty good deal, I wouldn't recommend trying to build a 5* character just from that. It is better utilized for those characters that are almost cover complete if you ask me. 

And of course, you always have the option to buy the covers outright at 720CP but you will need to have at least one cover in each color but I don't recommend you pursue such a course of action.

It sounds like to me you are happy where you are in the game right now and the idea of selling a lot of latest bugs you. The real question is how capable you are of being able to champ all of them to avoid waste. Do you feel that in the future should a DD be available again that you will be in a better position to avoid wasted covers? If yes, then I recommend you wait and start gathering the necessary ISO for the day DD is featured in debut character token set. If no, then I would recommend you pull now as you will get a solid cast of 5* characters (Gambit may be the strongest and DD is also quite good but I personally think 5* Thor is the most fun 5* character in the game). Prioritize which characters you want and which you can go without for the time being.

But whatever you choose, good luck! ﾞ☆⌒o(*^ｰﾟ)ｖ

Quebbster

You could set Daredevil as your bonus hero, start opening tokens, and stop once you have 13 covers for one of the fivestars, hopefully Daredevil. Keep in mind that you can get Latest fivestar covers exchanged by Customer Service, so if you stop when you have 13 covers for someone you don't need to level them up.
Of course, without ISO you might end up with a lot of wasted fourstar covers. To level up seven fourstars would cost you 2 million ISO approximately.
But yeah, he will probably be in a special release vault at some unspecified point in the future, so it might make more sense to save up CP until then.

fight4thedream

Ah! but that does remind me that you will only be able to swap covers for Latest pulls. If you save up enough CP you should be able to brute force cover him if need be if you try your luck with a future debut token but you never know with RNG.

Straycat

I say go for it. I never hoard anyways, but whats the point of hoarding if you don't break it open for something you want?
I have no desire to enter 5* land either, but I recently started spending iso leveling up some of my better covered 5*s to 360. My Daredevil is 4/4/5, and I love playing him. He's good, and really fun to use. And even if you end up with extra Thor's or Gambit's before covering DD, who cares if you sell an extra cover if you don't want to champ them anyways?
The 4* waste would hurt a bit, but overall if you end up with 1-3 13 cover 5*s I think it would be worth it. Think of it as immersion therapy into learning to accept selling covers. Rogue is worth championing, but some of the new releases are fair to leave underleveled until you have the iso. 

Daredevil217

fight4thedream said:

Ah! but that does remind me that you will only be able to swap covers for Latest pulls. If you save up enough CP you should be able to brute force cover him if need be if you try your luck with a future debut token but you never know with RNG.

But i run the risk of wasted 5* pulls due to bad rng because I don’t want to champ him, just cover him. 

Does that change anyone’s opinion?

Quebbster

Daredevil217 said:

fight4thedream said:

Ah! but that does remind me that you will only be able to swap covers for Latest pulls. If you save up enough CP you should be able to brute force cover him if need be if you try your luck with a future debut token but you never know with RNG.

But i run the risk of wasted 5* pulls due to bad rng because I don’t want to champ him, just cover him. 

Does that change anyone’s opinion?

As I said: When you have thirteen covers for one fivestar, any fivestar, stop pulling. There's not a bad one in the lot, and if it's not Daredevil who gets thirteen covers, he should pop up later in some special store during a future fivestar release.

Daredevil217

Quebbster said:

Daredevil217 said:

fight4thedream said:

Ah! but that does remind me that you will only be able to swap covers for Latest pulls. If you save up enough CP you should be able to brute force cover him if need be if you try your luck with a future debut token but you never know with RNG.

But i run the risk of wasted 5* pulls due to bad rng because I don’t want to champ him, just cover him. 

Does that change anyone’s opinion?

As I said: When you have thirteen covers for one fivestar, any fivestar, stop pulling. There's not a bad one in the lot, and if it's not Daredevil who gets thirteen covers, he should pop up later in some special store during a future fivestar release.

So you’re suggesting I pull now and deal with the fact there will be immense 4* cover waste?

1. Cloak & Dagger [Champed]
2. Rocket & Groot [Champed]
3. Gamora [Champed]
4. Sandman (5/3/5) [L70] 4 expiring after PVE
5. Vulture [Champed]
6. Mockingbird [Champed]
7. Yondu (5/2/5) [L140]
8. Lockjaw (3/5/5) [L70]
9. Rogue (3/5/5) [L140] - 2 expiring after Xmas event
10. Nightcrawler (5/4/4) [L209]
11. The Hulk (2/2/3) [L94]
12. Nico Minoru (2/2/1) [L70]

For what it’s worth.
* I’m 10k away from the Iso needed to champ one 4*
* Could easily get the Iso to champ another in two weeks from regular play.
* I have 11 max-champed 2s I could sell for another 715k Iso, 50k shy of what I’d need to champ 2 more.

So I could champ 4 more before expiration and have 9/12 Champed and the cover waste would only be from three characters and unchamped classics.

Probably champ Rogue, Sandman, Yondu and Crawler though it could change with cover distribution. 

Straycat

Quebbster said:

Daredevil217 said:

fight4thedream said:

Ah! but that does remind me that you will only be able to swap covers for Latest pulls. If you save up enough CP you should be able to brute force cover him if need be if you try your luck with a future debut token but you never know with RNG.

But i run the risk of wasted 5* pulls due to bad rng because I don’t want to champ him, just cover him. 

Does that change anyone’s opinion?

As I said: When you have thirteen covers for one fivestar, any fivestar, stop pulling. There's not a bad one in the lot, and if it's not Daredevil who gets thirteen covers, he should pop up later in some special store during a future fivestar release.

As I said, even if you end up with extra Thor's or Gambit's before covering DD, who cares if you sell an extra cover if you don't want to champ them anyways?

Daredevil217

Straycat said:

Quebbster said:

Daredevil217 said:

fight4thedream said:

Ah! but that does remind me that you will only be able to swap covers for Latest pulls. If you save up enough CP you should be able to brute force cover him if need be if you try your luck with a future debut token but you never know with RNG.

But i run the risk of wasted 5* pulls due to bad rng because I don’t want to champ him, just cover him. 

Does that change anyone’s opinion?

As I said: When you have thirteen covers for one fivestar, any fivestar, stop pulling. There's not a bad one in the lot, and if it's not Daredevil who gets thirteen covers, he should pop up later in some special store during a future fivestar release.

As I said, even if you end up with extra Thor's or Gambit's before covering DD, who cares if you sell an extra cover if you don't want to champ them anyways?

I actually missed your orginal comment. I think I was posting while you were but it’s helpful advice. I might even be able to get a fifth covered if I put off pulling for a week.  If DD rotates out the first and I do all my pulls and submit my ticket on the 29th, I should be safe right? Even though they’re out of office I still would have submitted the request before rotation. I’d probably aim to champ Nico in that case, leaving Hulk, Lockjaw and 9 classics to sell. 

Ruinate

Can you hit 1200?

Don't forget that as we try to dig ourselves out of the iso hole, Demi is constantly throwing more dirt onto our heads.  Some of us have to accept that we may never get to the point where there is no cover waste.  I've been working on it for a long time and I have 13 champed 5s but still have 17 more 4s that I need to champ.  I deal with a lot of waste but when I look at the growth of my roster, I am fine with it.  Because I now have a wide variety of 5s I feel there isn't a reward I can't get anymore.  Sacrificing some of my 4s allows me to get every new 5 to level 460+ before they leave Latest without any hoarding or spending.  T10 Pve and T5 Pvp is "easy" and I think the resource flow is greater overall because of it.  I do not know what roster progression is like without opening and how satisfying/unsatisfying it is, but it seems you don't really have a problem with it.  But if you can't hit 1200 you may want to consider.  You can at least sell your waste for some change but every time you miss rewards because your roster can't hang, you get nothing.    

As far as Daredevil goes he's pretty amazing.  He isn't the most powerful and he isn't a must have (I would say Thanos is in the current state) but he's the most convenient to have.  Works with any team in any game mode.  Imo he is the most fun 5* to build a team around and it's just amazing to see how much damage an extra hit does when strike tiles are involved.  RIP Gambat.  Daredevil misses you.  

Daredevil217

I’ve never hit 1200. I have 43 4-champs and have heard from people on these forums that with a roster like mine that should be feasible with optimal play and lots of HP. I sometimes struggle to get to 900 since I don’t play optimally and am mostly free to play. I’m ok with not hitting 1200 though. 

Milk Jugz

I say pull, pull until you cover the character you want. Especially since you're not into champing the 5*, who cares if you waste a few covers. Don't worry about the waste in your 4*, with the potential to have 47 champ 4s your waste won't be terrible. I have 49 champ 4s, I pull as I go- the waste is acceptable. Have fun pulling!!!!

Oh, and if you decide to pull, let us know your rates, who you covered, how much you spent, who you champed. I know I'm curious already

bender

I was in a similar boat as you @Daredevil217. I ended up pulling and am OK with the results.

My thoughts / experience:
- Like me, although you don't have all of the latest 4* champed, you have most of the better ones done (I referenced DesertTortoise's tier list and Jarvind's 4* forum list) so 4* waste isn't bad.

- I pulled at a more than decent 5* rate, but got a ton more Thor and Gambit covers than Daredevil. I ended up around the 300 pull mark before getting 13 Daredevil covers.

- I added covers sporadically to see how close I was getting to the 3 x 13. What I didn't do was work to the best softcap standalone spec (from my reading Daredevil 535, Gambit 355, Thor 553). Customer Service refused to cover swap my Gambit and Thor to the best spec as I already had them at 13 covers.

- As of right now, if you happen to end up with surplus Gambit covers, you can sell them and get a Marvel Legends 5* only token. This has eased the pain of my unbalanced pull rates!

- So I have a bunch of 5* Thor covers to sell. I have read that it is best to roster a dupe. I guess there is a extremely small chance they may nerf/buff him (probably unlikely). I think I'm just gonna reluctantly sell them.

Best of luck with your decision (bender is not a Marvel hero so I didn't have that reason!).

huktonfonix

I wouldn’t call 43 champed 4* a premature transition to 5* play. Some thoughts:

1) do you play pvp or pve primarily? Once you level your 5s there’s no real going back to 4* play in pvp, which is a shame because 4* are a deep, balanced, interesting Tier. In pve though your scaling is 100% based on the CL you choose, so you could stick with 4* even with champed 5s if you want.

2) Daredevil and Thor are both extremely fun to play and are powerful, versatile, well-designed characters. Gambit is broken and annoying, but the only thing worse than using him every match is facing him every match and not having your own to counter.

Point is this is a great bunch of 5s in Latest. The best set of 3 in a year, and archangel seems unlikely to dethrone any of those 3. My Daredevil is my highest 5 at 470 and is easily my favorite 5* to play. If it’s also your favorite comic character you really can’t go wrong.

3) I wouldn’t assume your current hoard will definitely cover any specific five. It can be very streaky. It took me under 200 pulls to cover Daredevil and Thor is at 11 covers in under 150 pulls, but Gambit took me 310.

4) covering classics is a fool’s game and gets harder by the day. If you want Daredevil I’d go all-in now. You’ll likely not cover him once he’s in classics.

5) I disagree with those above saying stop when your first 5 gets to 13 covers. Daredevil and Thor especially benefits from levels because you want them under 50% health, and when blowing a hoard you want to make your “A Team” as strong as possible. You won’t be adding many levels to any of them once they drop to classics, so dive in head first or not at all.

Daredevil217

Milk Jugz said:

Oh, and if you decide to pull, let us know your rates, who you covered, how much you spent, who you champed. I know I'm curious already

I absolutely will!  But again want to wait as long as I can so I can save as many covers as I can.

bender said:

- As of right now, if you happen to end up with surplus Gambit covers, you can sell them and get a Marvel Legends 5* only token. This has eased the pain of my unbalanced pull rates!

This is a HUGE thing I didn’t think about!  How long do we have to exchange Gambit  covers for tokens??

huktonfonix said:

I wouldn’t call 43 champed 4* a premature transition to 5* play. Some thoughts:

Premature as in I don’t have the Iso ready to champ them or enough latest champs to deal with waste. 

1) do you play pvp or pve primarily? Once you level your 5s there’s no real going back to 4* play in pvp, which is a shame because 4* are a deep, balanced, interesting Tier. In pve though your scaling is 100% based on the CL you choose, so you could stick with 4* even with champed 5s if you want.

I play both. Regularly 900/top 25 and top 10 PVE. So I’m good where I’m at not making my 4s obsolete. 

2) Daredevil and Thor are both extremely fun to play and are powerful, versatile, well-designed characters. Gambit is broken and annoying, but the only thing worse than using him every match is facing him every match and not having your own to counter.

Point is this is a great bunch of 5s in Latest. The best set of 3 in a year, and archangel seems unlikely to dethrone any of those 3. My Daredevil is my highest 5 at 470 and is easily my favorite 5* to play. If it’s also your favorite comic character you really can’t go wrong.

3) I wouldn’t assume your current hoard will definitely cover any specific five. It can be very streaky. It took me under 200 pulls to cover Daredevil and Thor is at 11 covers in under 150 pulls, but Gambit took me 310.

Yeah but if I over-cover Gambit, as mentioned above I can swap him out for other 5 pulls and will make DD my sole bonus.  But you’re right there are no guarantees. I could also stop when any get to 13 and finish DD later because I don’t have the Iso to champ anyway. 

4) covering classics is a fool’s game and gets harder by the day. If you want Daredevil I’d go all-in now. You’ll likely not cover him once he’s in classics.

Yep. Hence the dilemma. 

5) I disagree with those above saying stop when your first 5 gets to 13 covers. Daredevil and Thor especially benefits from levels because you want them under 50% health, and when blowing a hoard you want to make your “A Team” as strong as possible. You won’t be adding many levels to any of them once they drop to classics, so dive in head first or not at all.

I don’t want to mess up my MMR by champing and once again, I don’t have the Iso to champ and apply the extras anyway. 

Daredevil217

@BlackBoltRocks

Do you know how long we’ll be able to swap Gambit for tokens?  I’ll have to weigh the benefit him being essential versus waiting to pull so I can collect more Iso before covers expire.

Avalanche Kincaid

Daredevil has a great skill set, good in pvp and pve.  Gambit is probably best 5* right now.  Definitely best if you have a decent bolt (previous #1) and also excels at taking down bolt and gambit alone.  Thor is ok, amazing in PvE when boosted or when boosted 5E has a big red, yellow, or green.  If there was a time to pull for your favorite character it is right now.

Pants1000

A couple other things to consider.  You’ll probably get a couple shield ranks, which will give you more ISO.  If necessary, you can also sell off a few max champed 3’s for ISO.  With those you may be able to champ all of the latest 4’s.

Ask yourself what you’re hoarding for.  If you hoard to completely avoid cover waste, you may never get there.  

Open them, get your favorite character, and have fun! 

Spudgutter

If you have 43 champed 4*, and don't want waste, you are never going to reach the end in this game.  you will have some waste, but with 43 it won't nearly be as much as you think.  

Pull until you get DD to 13 and don't look back.  you don't have to level him, but you will regret it later, when you finally do take the leap, and you realize how impossible it will be to get 13 covers for him from classics.  

I repeat, Pull.  These are the best three at once we've seen in quite a while.  you have been hoarding this long, and he is your favorite, and he is a really good character. 

jredd

the key to not wasting covers obviously is champing. at 550k iso for a 5*, and 370k for a 4*, if you're not packing a scrooge mcduck money bin full of iso into your opening party there will be waste. 

turfing 4* gets less painful the more you do it. but having as many 4* champed as you can beforehand reduces that. if you don't want to level your 5*, like others have mentioned, you can pull till you get one covered. or keep going and make dupes. at any rate, getting a 5* covered while you can is better than waiting.