Structural analysis, PvP model (long)

MacEifer

You don't get descended upon by high champ level 4's unless you go to the open bracket. You have to decide to go to play with the big boys instead of someone making that call for you. That's the whole point of this thing. This is not some "wooah wooah my roster is bad I don't want to be C4roled anymore" post. It's about choice and transparency. You only get to play against people who are ready to play against you or at least think they are. 

Bowgentle

MacEifer said:

You don't get descended upon by high champ level 4's unless you go to the open bracket. You have to decide to go to play with the big boys instead of someone making that call for you. That's the whole point of this thing. This is not some "wooah wooah my roster is bad I don't want to be C4roled anymore" post. It's about choice and transparency. You only get to play against people who are ready to play against you or at least think they are. 

His suggestion was to lock out 5* chars from CL7 and lower in PVP, which means I can use my 4s.

MacEifer

Sorry, I was talking about the system I proposed at the top. I don't think the current system can be rectified with small fixes. 

alaeth

Bowgentle said:

alaeth said:

{snip}

I would argue a newer player shouldn't even have the possibility of pulling a 5* cover until they have a championed 4...

OR

The method of match-making in PvP needs to lock out those 5s in the lower ranks... Say... below 7...?  PvE has already been tweaked - by applying fixed levels and caps based on SCL.  The same needs to be done for PvP (by restricting the player's available roster...?)

The second you lock out 5s on pvp you will have a million people with 350+ boosted 4s eating all of the low players candy in lower CLs.

Possibly... but if there's minimum and maximum Ranks for each SCL, (in theory) it should help to promote a more level playing field.  

With the changes to XP gains (only gains for things that "improve your roster") it seems clear to me they are trying to use Rank as a better gauge of a player's competitive strength. But as OP is experiencing, there needs to be a lot more changes to the matching algorithms to make it effective (and fun) to play PvP.

I think we can all agree we'd like an easy fight in PvP... but we'll settle for a fair fight.

WelcomeDeath

So....I don't understand this thread at all.  Your mmr is screwed not because you leveled to 300, but because your DD is a 5* with 11 covers.  I agree with OJSP, need to get some 4* champed to fix it.  Don't worry about 3s for a bit if you don' have the iso. Get the 4s done.  

To the actual proposal.  If everyone just gets the same level stuff in this system, why level your stuff?  We just got rid of softcapping in pve (mostly).  We don't need it in PvP.  

While I agree that vets don't really understand 3* play or "up and coming" rosters in PvP as it stands these days, not much has changed.  The thing that's holding you back isn't 5* guys. We can't hit you as it is, for the most part.  The thing that's holding you back is other players in your tier.  575 and done has gone past just 3* guys to a lot of 4* guys ( and I've even seen 5* guys go to 575 and done in a post-gambit world!).  People scored a lot higher with wins based when the scoring was EXACTLY THE SAME.  even 3* guys got to 900.  Fix the damn reward structure and you'll see more people playing, then 900 will be very possible.  If they made it more worth it to go to the next 100 points, more people would.  And if they got rid of that idiotic reward at 575 and made progression *progressive*, it would cause people to play more.  

MacEifer

It's not quite about progression, it's about gameplay. The real problem isn't that I can't get my rewards or somesuch it's that getting them isn't any fun. When the majority of your matches are either vs people way below or way above, then the games themselves become a chore.
And so the system plateaus at certain progression points so that you can stay at that specific point for a while and enjoy yourself while you're working up your roster to go to the next division. And it's not like everyone will be same level there, but they should be within a certain range that gives everyone a fair shake.

PenniesForEveryone

MacEifer said:

It's not quite about progression, it's about gameplay. The real problem isn't that I can't get my rewards or somesuch it's that getting them isn't any fun. When the majority of your matches are either vs people way below or way above, then the games themselves become a chore.
And so the system plateaus at certain progression points so that you can stay at that specific point for a while and enjoy yourself while you're working up your roster to go to the next division. And it's not like everyone will be same level there, but they should be within a certain range that gives everyone a fair shake.

This is your own fault.  Roster management is part of the game, and you haven't managed yours well at all.  You have literally a 1 in a million roster and to expect the game to tailor to it is absurd. We don't need any more choice in play beyond the roster decisions we have already made.  You chose to continue to pull and level 5s before you had 4s, you chose to skew your own roster, and consequently your versus play is equally as skewed.

MacEifer

PenniesForEveryone said:

MacEifer said:

It's not quite about progression, it's about gameplay. The real problem isn't that I can't get my rewards or somesuch it's that getting them isn't any fun. When the majority of your matches are either vs people way below or way above, then the games themselves become a chore.
And so the system plateaus at certain progression points so that you can stay at that specific point for a while and enjoy yourself while you're working up your roster to go to the next division. And it's not like everyone will be same level there, but they should be within a certain range that gives everyone a fair shake.

This is your own fault.  Roster management is part of the game, and you haven't managed yours well at all.  You have literally a 1 in a million roster and to expect the game to tailor to it is absurd. We don't need any more choice in play beyond the roster decisions we have already made.  You chose to continue to pull and level 5s before you had 4s, you chose to skew your own roster, and consequently your versus play is equally as skewed.

The only absurd thing is the assumption that everyone else is enjoying their PvP matchups or the general experience of it. As I and others have said before, you don't need some crazy roster to get misplaced by the PvP system.
My roster isn't the point, why do you keep making it the point then?

CNash

The game tells you literally nothing about "managing your roster" to manipulate PVP matchups in your favour. It actively promotes 4-star and 5-star characters as the thing that everyone wants and should aspire to, then punishes players who open Legendary Tokens or spend CP and manage to skip the entire 3-star tier (and in rare cases most of the 4-star tier). How does this make any sense?

MacEifer

The funny thing about that is when you consider the option of players putting themselves in brackets instead of the game doing it for you, all that mystical roster juju goes away and you end up with a proper "bigger is better" roster philosophy instead of the current "intransparent math traps around the next corner." approach.