3* Gambit Worst in Tier

DyspepticDyspeptic Age Unconfirmed Posts: 7 Just Dropped In
The recent 'fix' to Gambit makes him worst in tier, and not just because he used to be good. He is at best equal to Ragnarok and Sentry and at worst (if you are unlucky) much worse.

Without a battery (in my experience charged tiles don't really count), Ragin' Cajun spawns three medium strength CDs, maybe twice per match. At max strength this deals 730 single target damage per AP if none are destroyed. Sentry's world rupture deals 242 AOE damage per AP (or 728 damage per AP if you lump for three active enemies) plus 85 AOE friendly damage per AP if no CDs are destroyed.

Without a battery, Aces & Eights does about 148 single target damage per AP maybe three to four times per match. The board shake is really weak, and the charged tiles are as likely to hurt as help you. Ragnarok deals 226 single target damage per AP and is way more likely to cause cascades without hurting you if the blue doesn't trigger anything.

And Stacked Deck--- deals 104 AOE friendly damage per AP in exchange for charged tiles (we already know these are unreliable) and 387 single target damage per AP. Compare to Ragnarok at 162 AOE damage per AP and 31 AOE friendly damage per AP. Or compare to Sentry at 355 AOE damage per AP and 112 AOE friendly damage per AP. Gambit is also cheaper, so you can proc the damage to your team more often. Yay.

So Gambit is "as good" as the most hated 3* characters when he has 5 covers in every power. And he is much squishier than either Ragnarok or Sentry.

Seriously, does your team ever test play these changes? This isn't a rebalance, it is punishment for anyone who ever liked the character. There were plenty of suggestion fixes on the forums by people who play--you could have cut his health to Hood level and fixed Stacked Deck to prevent allies from firing purple or red instead of just whatever colors Gambit has covered (which you should have done immediately after this loophole was discovered IMO).

I'm really disappointed in the developer team. This is total rubbish.
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Comments

  • Tiger_WongTiger_Wong Posts: 487 Mover and Shaker
    you’re overreacting. He’s not worse than Elektra. Stacked deck is still not worse than Ragnarok’s green. He’s still better than Hulk once you get past a certain level. And Doc Ock is only ok on one possible team/vs one possible team and as soon as you get a character with better powers, he becomes just as obsolete as most of the other 3*s.

    Some of you guys are still in the 3rd phase of loss. Eventually you’ll get to the Acceptance Phase and be able to see things clearly.


  • ammenellammenell Posts: 738 Critical Contributor
    he still gives champ rewards. 
  • TPF AlexisTPF Alexis Posts: 3,813 Chairperson of the Boards
    Also, Ragin' Cajun overwrites enemy Strike/Protect/Attack tiles. That's worth something right there, even if none of the countdowns resolve.
  • Tone77Tone77 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2 Just Dropped In
    Now that Gambit's, black power has been turned into a mediocre power, perhaps, you should make his red power a little more powerful? For, now, he has 2 powers that do very little. I loved how Gambit was at the beginning and I blame the change to those who exploited his black power with 0/0/5. But, why change the 5* Gambit? That power makes him a 5* character. Now, as the 3* stands, I will get some Rogue covers and then delete him. Honestly, I voted for Gambit, he's always been my favorite member of the x-men... He was very useful for grinding story events. Now, he's a tragedy.
  • DyspepticDyspeptic Age Unconfirmed Posts: 7 Just Dropped In
    you’re overreacting. He’s not worse than Elektra. Stacked deck is still not worse than Ragnarok’s green. He’s still better than Hulk once you get past a certain level. And Doc Ock is only ok on one possible team/vs one possible team and as soon as you get a character with better powers, he becomes just as obsolete as most of the other 3*s.

    Some of you guys are still in the 3rd phase of loss. Eventually you’ll get to the Acceptance Phase and be able to see things clearly.


    Overreacting how? The numbers don't lie--you can see how similar he is to the community hated chars by pretty simple math. Or perhaps you mean that the numbers will change eventually?
  • Tiger_WongTiger_Wong Posts: 487 Mover and Shaker
    Dyspeptic said:
    you’re overreacting. He’s not worse than Elektra. Stacked deck is still not worse than Ragnarok’s green. He’s still better than Hulk once you get past a certain level. And Doc Ock is only ok on one possible team/vs one possible team and as soon as you get a character with better powers, he becomes just as obsolete as most of the other 3*s.

    Some of you guys are still in the 3rd phase of loss. Eventually you’ll get to the Acceptance Phase and be able to see things clearly.


    Overreacting how? 
    He’s not “worst in the tier”. It’s not a “punishment to whomever liked the character”.

    Not even close 
  • AnonAnon Posts: 1,222 Chairperson of the Boards
    Dyspeptic said:
    you’re overreacting. He’s not worse than Elektra. Stacked deck is still not worse than Ragnarok’s green. He’s still better than Hulk once you get past a certain level. And Doc Ock is only ok on one possible team/vs one possible team and as soon as you get a character with better powers, he becomes just as obsolete as most of the other 3*s.

    Some of you guys are still in the 3rd phase of loss. Eventually you’ll get to the Acceptance Phase and be able to see things clearly.


    Overreacting how? 
    He’s not “worst in the tier”. It’s not a “punishment to whomever liked the character”.

    Not even close 
    He's not the absolute worst, but he's still not even good.
  • IceyOneIceyOne Posts: 28 Just Dropped In
    I'm surprised they didn't go with a move for him that actually destroys tiles in a block considering his cards are suppose to explode. I'd like his Black move to be changed to something like that insyead of generating charged tiles like his red does and causing generic damage and detriment to his team.
  • JwallyrJwallyr Posts: 165 Tile Toppler
    I mostly agree with OP on this one. I consider it an obvious bug that a 0/0/x Gambit would produce AP without locking out ally abilities, and it's embarrassing that the devs didn't fix it sooner.

    ...but they didn't fix it, they completely reworked the black power into something awkward and mostly bad, while leaving the purple and red exactly as they were, despite them being (presumably) balance originally around the constant stream of free AP from the old black. His red was always very mediocre damage with very minor board shake, but it was ok because it was basically spammable. Now it does mediocre damage with very minor board shake and you can barely afford to use it.

    His purple was always the stronger ability, and it's still pretty useful for the utility of neutralizing special tiles with some damage on top, particularly since there's no reason not to build 5/3/5 since the red gets nothing from more covers except incrementally more (but still mediocre) damage. You still can't afford to use it regularly, but I'm pretty ok with not automagically wiping out 3 enemy special tiles every 3 turns or so.

    The fact that Gambit damages his allies for (combined) 50% of the damage he does to the enemy is just bizarre. The charged tiles are dangerous to leave on the board, so you have to be very careful with board condition before using it, and/or have 7 red AP saved up without any actual advantage in getting there.

    All that being said, I have had some really great success at the 3* level with IM40/KK/Gambit. By prioritizing yellow matches followed by black, I can pretty reliably generate some charged tiles (while outhealing Gambit's damage to his own allies) and then nuke them with Gambit's red, continuously generating team heals through Gambit's cheap abilities and IM's recharge (which itself is a cheap ability that generates heals). The simple fact remains that this team is 100% reliant on KK's heals to have any kind of sustaining power. I consider Gambit's black to be 100% unusable without KK on the team, because I don't want to accelerate the pace at which I have to burn health packs to keep playing.

    So... yeah, as an individual character Gambit now seems virtually unplayable to me. With IM40 and KK to mitigate his most glaring flaws, he makes for a good heal generator with KK... but that doesn't speak to him being actually useful in his own right.
  • White_DethWhite_Deth Age Unconfirmed Posts: 63 Match Maker
    Hence why i sold him immediately for 2000hp and never looked back. If the fixed the battery prob id still use him as i never exploited his black. I liked the purple but now its busted. There are plenty of 4*s that destroy enemy tiles anyway so why bother with him at all?
  • RumakashiRumakashi Age Unconfirmed Posts: 31 Just Dropped In
    edited December 2017
    There are plenty of 4*s that destroy enemy tiles anyway so why bother with him at all?
    It's the reason he was nerfed. I found it totally disturbing that a 3* character seemed better than a huge amount of 4*. If you have 4* character with similar powers, it's totally anormal to use the 3* except if he's boosted.
  • DAZ0273DAZ0273 Posts: 4,950 Chairperson of the Boards
    I don't know if he is worst but he is very efficient at killing his team mates!

    I decided to have a "death - off" playing the BE shortly after his nerf with him, 3* Thanos and Sentry as a team. I used all their powers without regard to consequence (and wasn't bothered about winning) and Gambit very efficiently succeeded in helping kill Lvl217 Thanos before Thanos could do him in with Court Death! Sentry wasn't even close even with a Sacrifice! Then by some miracle I won the fight with only Gambit left but yeah...that cheap black is extra-efficient at killing your team!
  • vinniebabe22vinniebabe22 Posts: 13 Just Dropped In
    He’s still better than Hulk once you get past a certain level. 


    Wow.... some memories there. I remember when I thought he was going to be the only 3 star I'd ever need when I first champed him  :'(

    Also, Gambit has taken a big hit but he was clearly OP. I grouped him with 3* Strange and the hood and would wipe out mook waves far too easily. Even waves far beyond usual punching weight. I agree that the adjustment was quite harsh if you'd been using him a lot and especially if (like me) you'd been waiting years for him.

    I enjoyed the time he was in my rotation but unless he's buffed he's not worth using. Champ rewards are Rogue covers though so not all bad
  • ThorstiennThorstienn Age Unconfirmed Posts: 34 Just Dropped In
    He is definitely not worst in tier! Not is ragnarok. Nor is Hulk. Sure, for ultimate use you want KK with all 3, but we are talking about 3* synergies that can punch far above their weight.
    If you are in the 3*tier yet find yourself constantly up against champ 4*(Or just for fun do it in sim anyway). Bring him with KK and IM40, and wreck their faces. (NB: it wont be the fastest)
    If you're past 3*, then who cares about "bad" 3*s.
    Hell, you could argue IM40 is a lousy 3* on his own, without synergy: his powers are expensive AND drain AP, minus his yellow, which are RANDOM countdown that also stun him.
    Instead of complaining that he isn' an OP GOD anymore, think of the uses he can have. I think sentry is useless, but ppl say he is good with Carol (a 4*!).
    In other words: I find him more useful than Elektra, Punisher (besides red very occasionally) and Vision (mostly due to him being R/B/Y)
  • DAZ0273DAZ0273 Posts: 4,950 Chairperson of the Boards
    Gambit is still OK on offence as you don't have to use his black but can save it up as a finishing blow to lesson team damage taken. When his PvP comes back around, the AI is going to murder itself spamming black ala Juggernaut and Sentry sacrifice as it knows no restraint! So that could be fun.

    Punisher red is an awesome boss killer, so he isn't trash by any means.

    Elektra is pretty lousy - even champed she is fairly pointless but at least she has damage mitigation which might come in handy. Her purple is horrible though.

    Vision has synergy issues but he has his uses.

    Sentry - I just can't see any upside to using him.
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