Should we buy another PW?

Marvaddin

Hey guys!

I love to buy cheaper things (black friday, hmmmm...), and there are some PWs in the vault with a nice discount. Nahiri and Dovin Baan 35% off, Jace 2 20% off.

Currently I'm going for dual PWs, and I got Ajani Vengeant, Kiora and Sorin. In any event that uses 5 nodes, I'm going with these for red, blue and white, with Nissa 1 for green and Liliana 1 for black.

Not really interested by Jace, but would like if you seasoned guys can help me:

1) how is Nahiri compared to Ajani I own?

2) What about Dovin and Saheeli (at her normal price)? His skills seems to be directed to Kaladesh set, which sooner or later will be out of standard events. Are they worthy, even for standard after Kaladesh is out?

3) What about the PWs which will be later avaliable, Tezzeret, Sarkhan and Samut? Any I should look at?

4) As for general advice, which are the PWs you guys use for each color? Why? (Don't come with Nicol Bolas, dual only.)

sjechua

@Marvaddin it depends on your play style and your card collection For the white node, you can use Dovin Baan, then you can switch Sorin to the black node. When Vraska is available, you can replace Nissa with her. DB's abilities and slots are very flexible. Pairing white and blue will give you access to both support removal and bounce as well as non creature strategies, which can be useful in certain events. Personally, I go for the Omni loop potential, courtesy of @Mainloop25 and @majincob

Kinesia

One thing to consider is that you can also treat different planeswalkers as deck slots and set different ones up for different things.

Sure it's more expensive than deck slots slightly but you are getting a lot more options of of it too.

Gilesclone

1) Nahiri plays very differently than Ajani.  Nahiri is very aggressive, good for “win in x turns” but not good for control. Very good with cheap, readily available creatures. I like both.  

2) Saheeli is one of the very best.  Her mana is incredible.  Ixalan will have vehicles so her abilities remain relevant, but even without them she’s awesome.  Dovin is flexible.  Good all around but not amazing.

3) Tezz 2 is another top tier PW.  Great for Cast x supports.  Bolas may have just made Sarkhan pointless.  Samut is another fun Aggressive PW, maybe not essential.

4) For white it really depends on the objectives but Ajani 1, Nahiri, Dovin, and Elspeth are my favorites.  Blue, all the 2 color ones are good.  Saheeli and Kiora are probably the top 2 walkers in any color.  My black favorites are Tezz2, Ob Nixilis, and Lilliana 3.  Lots of red options: Aj1, Nahiri, Koth, Saheeli, and Samut all see lots of play. Green really needs a second color.  Kiora, Nissa 3, and Samut are my favorites.

If I had to pick one of each: Kiora, Saheeli, Tezz2, Ajani 1, and Samut would cover all bases pretty well.  Or sub out Ajani/Samut for Nahiri/Nissa3.

bk1234

I prefer Aj1 over Nahiri, especially if you aren’t advanced in the game. His abilities give you control — and it takes awhile to collect the cards necessary to run good control decks

In ThePower9, most people also recommend Kiora, Tezz2 and Saheeli as other noteworthy duals. 

Samut will take you further than N1 for aggro green. 

Dovin is great for blue or white nodes and has good abilities. 

Koth or Nahiri for aggro red.

Elspeth is AMAZING.  She is the only mono I use for PvP and she doesn’t lose. 

Finally, Ob is necessary for PVE, he’s the most flexible for a lot of objectives.

Kinesia

Nodnod... A lot of us have been saying it as subtext but to be more blunt... Think about the "requirements" for events that you currently have trouble with and work out who would help with that.
Some of the nodes are optimised for specific walkers, like "play zombies and lose creatures" is ok with basic Lil, perfect with one of the others, it's also pretty good with Ob.

For "play 2 werewolves and no other creatures" think about how you can win without creatures at all and then match that with a colour you have ok weres in (dont need to be mythic, cheap is fine!) Most people have their favourite ways, but even green/white Ajani is perfectly doable for that.

Kinesia

Nodnod... A lot of us have been saying it as subtext but to be more blunt... Think about the "requirements" for events that you currently have trouble with and work out who would help with that.
Some of the nodes are optimised for specific walkers, like "play zombies and lose creatures" is ok with basic Lil, perfect with one of the others, it's also pretty good with Ob.

For "play 2 werewolves and no other creatures" think about how you can win without creatures at all and then match that with a colour you have ok weres in (dont need to be mythic, cheap is fine!) Most people have their favourite ways, but even green/white Ajani is perfectly doable for that.

Doomstat

All of the above comments are pretty spot on. Thinking of planeswalkers as deck slots with different abilities AND considering event objectives are key to wanting to buy a new pw.

Dovin is one of my favorite walkers, but that's because I have great blue and white cards in my collection. Tezzeret 2 is my next purchase because I want to play zombies out of him.

The biggest thing to consider is can your collection support who you buy? Do you have more aggro cards or stall cards? Better Blue or Red? 

 I think urging you away from the Starter Nissa is a good start, though. Mono green is a rather tough deck to build without a lot of rare and mythic cards and be a tough competitor. I have a lot of good green cards, but it's even hard for me.

ElfNeedsFood

The crystals are a small part of the investment.  The runes are more valuable than the crystals IMO.  Go for quality over quantity, especially early on.

1. AJ1 is more white than red while Nahiri is more red than white...  I like both for their own uses.

2. Saheeli is one of my favorites.  Her mana curve plus deck flexibility make her work really well for "cast no spells", "cast no supports", and even "cast no creatures" if you have the right token spells and slip in one vehicle that you don't hand cast.  It doesn't even have to be the best vehicle, just about any of the 6/6 vehicles are fine, one of the mythics is killer.  Dovin is good with both AKH and HOU as the color combo is great for both cycling decks and aftermath decks too, but I'd go Saheeli, even with the extra crystals.  They also happen to be handing the crystals out like candy this week...

3. Samut is probably a better pickup next week than Nahiri this week.  They both run very aggressive.  Tezz 2 is my favorite black walker, give me lots of supports!

4. My selection varies a lot, but I have a lot of choices (all but 5 that I'll probably never pick up).  My current favorites are Samut for most Red node, Ajani or Giddeon 3 on White, Kiora on Green, Tezz2 for Black, Saheeli for Blue.  I have Bolas, but I'm still trying to find the deck that feels right there...

Szamsziel

I'd recommend first to consider coverage of the color wheel - you should have at least two pw able to play on each color. (in control and aggro mode).

One point regarding nahiri - her ultimate is cheap and can be abused on big creatures - especially if you can give them double strike

IM_CARLOS

If you are into this game you will buy every pw sooner or later, if you sit on 100+k of runes, all pw are maxed out and all deckslot are in.

blacklotus

I agree with Carlos. I collect all the pw available. There is no better time to buy them than when they are at a discount. Buy as many as you can.

If Octagon ever re-launches Arena type events with locked pw in 2018, all pw will be required then. 

Mainloop25

Nahiri is excellent for people without the biggest collections because she can make monsters out of even common creatures. She's is great for going through a lot of events, but she tends to be a bit too aggro for a lot of event objectives. Dovin is basically a must-have if you ask me. Blue/White is possibly the strongest color combo right now (arguable with blue/green.) He is one of the best planeswalkers in the game across two accounts of mine. Saheeli is very good, top tier, but does take a good collection to really shine. Samut is similar to Nahiri in that she is also suitable for those without the greatest collection because her abilities can buff up mediocre creatures. But I would take Nahiri over samut overall.  Tezz2 is also top tier especially in legacy events. He can really do control better than any other black walker, and is probably only second to Dovin in that category. Don't bother with Sarkhan. There's a reason you almost never see him used anymore. 

Sirchombli

Nahiri was the first 2c pw I got. I like her better than ajani, but mostly because I had her for a good year before I picked up ajani. Ajani gives me trouble in the mana department and nahiri can end a match quicker if you're racing. I'm a bit reckless, and not because of my affiliation, so I'm often racing and nahiris ult turns a big dum monster into a stoopid big dum monster. 

I use dovin a lot for blue nodes because he's versatile, but I really only ever use his first ability. I use saheeli far less than most of my teammates. If I want red and blue, I'm using bolas. Before bolas I just didn't use her. 

J2 is absolutely not necessary, but he's a lot of fun and can generate ridiculous amounts of mana. I always use him on the blue node of EC. I play all the big dum 12/12s. It feeds my inner Timmy. 

I use sorin a ton and when I'm not using him, I use ob. Elspeth has great gains, but has a bit of the koth problem of being awkward when there's a board full of black and red gems. 

Koth is definitely strong. Personally I hate him. Especially since samut came out. She's got pretty good gains and her abilities get people ded. I like ded. I use her on green nodes when I don't feel like playing kiora and having to think. 

Marvaddin

Well, thanks for all advice.

My collection isn't great, mostly commons and uncommons. 842 total cards, 91 rares, 10 mythic, 2 MP (Chain Lightning and Choke). So, yeah, thanks for considering which PWs are easier to use with poor cards. My Sorin deck, for example, lacks most cards to profit from his life gain skills, and I'm using my Liliana removal deck with white creatures that are stronger than the black ones. Lame!

Yeah, I know in the future I should own all PWs, but I can't afford it now, as I have around 2k Crystals, so I need to choose carefully. This is what you are helping me.

My main goals are get my collection stronger (booster crafting will help) AND, have at least a good deck for each color. This what I need, a good PW to work in each node.

If I got it correctly, most people think Saheeli is a must have, and better than Dovin (right?). Tezz2 is also one I should consider, as Samut.

I'm in a hurry now, but later I will post my event decks, so you can have an idea of what I own. For now, please continue telling which PWs you consider best options for each node.

Thanks again!

TheDragonHermit

Dovin is loads of fun, especially if you have Empyreal Voyager to mix up with his 3rd ability. Even once energize leaves standard blue/white is excellent for control and I already have some ideas for crippling lockdown decks.

FindingHeart8

Yes, yes...Ajani, Tezz2, Saheeli, Nahiri, Samut are all amazing, especially if you have cards that work with their strengths.

I'm surprised nobody mentioned Sorin as one of the higher-end (but not top) planeswalkers.  Yeah he's a glass cannon but White/Black in mtgpq can dish out some mean control and combos that work well with Sorin's life gain.

I'd say Sorin is a better commander (especially for legacy) than Dovin or any Gideon/Liliana deck, but that's just my 2 cents

ZW2007-

I skimmed a lot here but based on you using Kiora for blue and Nissa for green, I'd buy Dovin Baan at 35% off in a heart beat. Considering your PW stable, you aren't drowning in crystals and 35% off is an incredible deal. Putting Dovin Baan into the blue node lets you use Kiora for green. Saheeli is probably better than Dovin Baan on average but your card collection can also dictate who is better. Eventually you will want to own both which will give you more flexibility to meet specific objectives and rotate your planeswalkers around. If you get both DB and SR, you would then be able to put Sorin on black nodes. Just my 2¢.

IM_CARLOS

DB is more control than Shae, with al the white disable stuff. In events with xx or less damage he is way better i think. An for cycling he could use aggressive possessions.

Anyway.. More options are better. 

TomB

I have a very nice Standard Sorin build that uses mostly commons and uncommons (and 1 rare, but it's somewhat incidental). It features the black and white cartouches, Knightly Valor, first strike/doublestrike critters like Consul's Lieutenant, Trueheart Duelist, and Adorned Pouncer, and lots of black elim spells like Final Reward and Trial of Ambition. Coupling Sorin's ultimate with lifelink from the Cartouche of Ambition/Knightly Valor gives you first striking defenders with power that grows every turn, and most games are over 2-3 turns later.

If you're lacking in big time power cards it's something to consider for now...

Marvaddin

Thanks again for all help! Like said, I will post decks I'm using, so you can suggest strategies and PWs changes. These are base legacy decks, I change them accordingly (like putting eldrazi in if there is an event goal about it)

Vengeant Ajani - usually does red node, as it's the fastest deck I own:
Chain Lightning
Lightning Runner
Nahiri's Wrath
Volcanic Rambler
Lightning Axe
Solemn Recruit
Sanctifier of Souls
Visionary Augmenter
Oketra's Attendant
Smite the Monstrous

Runner buffs himself and other creatures to a fast kill. Other cards are used to deal with creatures that come to cause troubles. The Attendant is to be discarded or cycled, and still several times becomes an useful warrior.


Kiora - does blue, and in fact is a blue deck.
Sandwurm Convergence
Jace's Sanctum
Insidiuous Will
New Perspectives
Imaginary Threats
Niblis of Frost
Censor
Sigiled Starfish
Desert of the Mindful
Imprisoned in the Moon (Galestrike if Standard)

Too bad I don't own Sphinx's Tutelage, but I intend to soon. I try to disrupt mana gain and summoning of the enemies. If I don't succeed, Convergence kills in a few turns, while I bump an deactivate creatures (Threats, Niblis).


Liliana 1 - does black.
Oath of Liliana
Trial of Ambition
Accursed Horde
Ammit Eternal
Ruin Rat
To the Slaughter
Unholy Hunger
Final Reward
Lethal Sting
Horror of the Broken Lands

Oath, Horde and Ammit are to deal damage. Horror is to draw, and others are removals. I even own Doomfall, but I believe the removals need to be cheap as possible, to be used in any emergency.


Sorin - does white. It's basicly same deck as Liliana, as I don't have some key cards to profit from its life gain skills (like Serene Steward). To deal damage I use Oath and white creatures from Ajani deck.


Nissa 1 - does green.
Choke
Sandwurm Convergence
Nissa's Pilgrimage
Majestic Myriarch
Cultivator of Blades
Outland Colossus
Smuggler's Copter
Greater Sandwurm
Dissenter's Deliverance
Ambuscade

Cycling cards are used to buy (as the Copter), although Deliverance can have its normal use sometimes. Choke is used to damage enemy mana (not used by Kiora because she likes using blue gems herself), and Ambuscade is a removal. Other than that, powerful creatures, and Convergence which alone is a beast.

Any tips about how to improve the decks (even if I don't have the cards for now) or about PWs that could beneft more from them?

@TomB, your idea for a Sorin deck is very good. I had my old Gideon deck working about first strike defenders. With lifelink from Cartouche of Ambition, I guess it could work even better. I will try this one later.