Guaranteed Nonduplicate from an Elite Pack

Drewster
Drewster Posts: 116 Tile Toppler
edited December 2017 in MtGPQ General Discussion
A guaranteed nonduplicate from an elite pack would be worth more jewels to me than 400.

Let's go with 500...

I won't shout at around 750.

1K and up = I'm still going to Las Vegas on most elite pack sets.

(This is not a feature which has been promised to us yet... just a desirable dream as of this posting.)

Comments

  • Drewster
    Drewster Posts: 116 Tile Toppler
    Krishna said:
    Hesturk said:
    The system seems good. However the major problem I see are the elite pack. Masterpiece are not craftable and you won't be able to get a reroll from the Elite pack. Then I think the only possible balance would be to have only masterpiece in Elite pack.
    yes. There's enough lousy Masterpieces to fill out an Elite Pack. 

    here's an example Masterpiece Elite Pack right here:
    1. Platinum Angel
    2. Omniscience
    3. Chrome Mox
    4. Aggravated Assault
    5. Avatar of Woe
    6. Sunder
    7. Gauntlet of Power
    8. Champion's Helm
    9. Lightning Greaves
    10. Counterspell





    There you go. 4 great cards and 6 meh cards. You can do that at least a couple other times. Make this pack 600 or 800 for people that are only searching for MPs.
  • Drewster
    Drewster Posts: 116 Tile Toppler
    edited December 2017
    I like @Hesturk's idea too.

    Combine these two ideas and what do ya get?

    Satisfied customers.
  • Ohboy
    Ohboy Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    A guaranteed masterpiece would be priced closer to 3-4k jewels, depending on whether masterpieces were considered loss leaders. 


  • Krishna
    Krishna Posts: 205 Tile Toppler
    Ohboy said:
    A guaranteed masterpiece would be priced closer to 3-4k jewels, depending on whether masterpieces were considered loss leaders. 


    3k would be overpriced even for Hibernum, I think. Oktagon is trying to be in touch with the playerbase, and offering a pack that would clearly only favor the elite of the elite would be pretty damaging. I could see up to 1k, maaaybe a little higher, but Purple takes so long to stack up, you'd have to finish with every top reward for weeks and weeks to get 3k (and that's if we keep getting HoD or an event with equivalent Purple).
  • __Adam
    __Adam Posts: 111 Tile Toppler
    Krishna said:
    Ohboy said:
    A guaranteed masterpiece would be priced closer to 3-4k jewels, depending on whether masterpieces were considered loss leaders. 


    3k would be overpriced even for Hibernum, I think. Oktagon is trying to be in touch with the playerbase, and offering a pack that would clearly only favor the elite of the elite would be pretty damaging. I could see up to 1k, maaaybe a little higher, but Purple takes so long to stack up, you'd have to finish with every top reward for weeks and weeks to get 3k (and that's if we keep getting HoD or an event with equivalent Purple).
    The current price is 400 for a ~10% chance, right? So a 100% chance would cost 10x as much, putting it at 4K in the current market.  I'm not saying it's reasonable, but that'd be the math.  3K is actually a pretty good deal when you look it at that way.  (that's how F2P game psychology works!)
  • hawkyh1
    hawkyh1 Posts: 780 Critical Contributor
    mythics+ cards that form the elite packs pool are usually
    quite good cards. imo allowing non duplicate rolls on
    these cards would mean making more desirable much
    more accessible. I believe it will be a case of see how
    balanced the booster crafting is before the question of
    allowing more non duplicate access to mythic cards.

    HH
  • Hesturk
    Hesturk Posts: 73 Match Maker
    edited December 2017
    I'd rather get a guaranteed non dupe from the Elite pack. However my idea of a guaranteed masterpiece was taking into consideration that there won't be anymore reroll . Getting a dupe mythic from that pack would convert into 1/10 of a mythic. The dupe masterpiece would convert into 1/2 one. Maybe they could adjust up the amount of orb/rune you get for a dupe mythic from Elite pack. That could be more reasonable 
  • Drewster
    Drewster Posts: 116 Tile Toppler
    Hesturk said:
    I'd rather get a guaranteed non dupe from the Elite pack. However my idea of a guaranteed masterpiece was taking into consideration that there won't be anymore reroll . Getting a dupe mythic from that pack would convert into 1/10 of a mythic. The dupe masterpiece would convert into 1/2 one. Maybe they could adjust up the amount of orb/rune you get for a dupe mythic from Elite pack. That could be more reasonable 
    This is why an all masterpiece elite pack makes sense... If there Has to be dupe chances in the elite pack make it so we get at least half of the coin for a guaranteed mythic (is the plea).
  • Ohboy
    Ohboy Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    Krishna said:
    Ohboy said:
    A guaranteed masterpiece would be priced closer to 3-4k jewels, depending on whether masterpieces were considered loss leaders. 


    3k would be overpriced even for Hibernum, I think. Oktagon is trying to be in touch with the playerbase, and offering a pack that would clearly only favor the elite of the elite would be pretty damaging. I could see up to 1k, maaaybe a little higher, but Purple takes so long to stack up, you'd have to finish with every top reward for weeks and weeks to get 3k (and that's if we keep getting HoD or an event with equivalent Purple).

    And here you've pointed out exactly why a masterpiece only elite pack is a bad idea.

    The correct price point is about there. 1k is a massive steal, and shouldn't ever happen, so the elite packs would literally be only for the elites. 
  • blacklotus
    blacklotus Posts: 589 Critical Contributor
    edited December 2017
    Ohboy said:
    Krishna said:
    Ohboy said:
    A guaranteed masterpiece would be priced closer to 3-4k jewels, depending on whether masterpieces were considered loss leaders. 


    3k would be overpriced even for Hibernum, I think. Oktagon is trying to be in touch with the playerbase, and offering a pack that would clearly only favor the elite of the elite would be pretty damaging. I could see up to 1k, maaaybe a little higher, but Purple takes so long to stack up, you'd have to finish with every top reward for weeks and weeks to get 3k (and that's if we keep getting HoD or an event with equivalent Purple).

    And here you've pointed out exactly why a masterpiece only elite pack is a bad idea.

    The correct price point is about there. 1k is a massive steal, and shouldn't ever happen, so the elite packs would literally be only for the elites. 
    i actually agree with this view point. Masterpieces are created as the final chase cards for the end game elite players. Giving them away easily and cheaply definitely does not benefit d3.

    The crafted non-dupes mythics are enough to give players enough powerful cards to win with. I consider Masterpieces when booster crafting is out as the equivalent of paper ccg holographic foil cards: very nice to have to complete one's card collection but unnecessary to win with.

    What d3go can do is maybe introduce jewels for cash purchases for those so inclined to pay cash to chase these ultra-rare cards.

    So far, there isn't a stand-a-lone jewels for cash purchase options. 
  • ZW2007-
    ZW2007- Posts: 812 Critical Contributor
    I think there are some very valid arguments on both sides here. It seems to me like a good middle ground could be something like an elite pack with 6 mythics and 2 masterpieces that still gives dupes with the caveat that the cards all have an equal drop rate. Obviously some knobs would need tweaked to find the perfect balance in order retain the value of jewels but I see something like this being a realistic alternative.
  • IM_CARLOS
    IM_CARLOS Posts: 640 Critical Contributor
    --Adam said:
    Krishna said:
    Ohboy said:
    A guaranteed masterpiece would be priced closer to 3-4k jewels, depending on whether masterpieces were considered loss leaders. 


    3k would be overpriced even for Hibernum, I think. Oktagon is trying to be in touch with the playerbase, and offering a pack that would clearly only favor the elite of the elite would be pretty damaging. I could see up to 1k, maaaybe a little higher, but Purple takes so long to stack up, you'd have to finish with every top reward for weeks and weeks to get 3k (and that's if we keep getting HoD or an event with equivalent Purple).
    The current price is 400 for a ~10% chance, right? So a 100% chance would cost 10x as much, putting it at 4K in the current market.  I'm not saying it's reasonable, but that'd be the math.  3K is actually a pretty good deal when you look it at that way.  (that's how F2P game psychology works!)
    10% x 10 = 100%? 

    I don't think so...
  • Theros
    Theros Posts: 490 Mover and Shaker
    edited December 2017
    Jewels are hard to get than crystals so elite packs must be no dupe by default. The game is already grindy as it is; elite should stay at 400
  • hawkyh1
    hawkyh1 Posts: 780 Critical Contributor
    let's say I grind totp for jewels.

    20 jewels per days = 20 days to acquire 400 jewels.
    1 pack dupes booster per day = 60 orbs per day
    (1uc+4c). 20x60 = 1200 orbs.
    if I get a dupe elite pack mythic I end up with
    1200 + 500 = 1700 orbs or ~ half of a legacy mythic.
    orbs are likely the way to getting mythics. when you
    grind for jewels you are also filling up your mythic
    meter. the emphasis is no longer all or nothing on
    not getting a dupe from your elite pack.

    HH
  • Dropspot
    Dropspot Posts: 200 Tile Toppler
    Actually the count is better @Volrak estimated 5pack dupes to worth around 118 orbs on average.
  • Krishna
    Krishna Posts: 205 Tile Toppler
    ZW2007- said:
    I think there are some very valid arguments on both sides here. It seems to me like a good middle ground could be something like an elite pack with 6 mythics and 2 masterpieces that still gives dupes with the caveat that the cards all have an equal drop rate. Obviously some knobs would need tweaked to find the perfect balance in order retain the value of jewels but I see something like this being a realistic alternative.
    EQUAL DROP RATE?!?! that's madness.

    When Bolas was set to be released, people were (logically) speculating that Bolas could cost $75 - $100. Bolas was then released at CHEAPER than a new dual-colored PW. Oktagon is looking to do right by the playerbase, and I strongly believe they will do something to help players get more Masterpieces. The players have brainstormed here a bit, and maybe Oktagon will use it as market research and incorporate that into their development process. Regardless, things likely won't stay the same in regards to the Elite Packs. I  admit, I am looking forward to seeing what they release.

    What would you like to see implemented for the Elite Pack? This would be a great poll:

    1) Equal drop rate for Mythics and MPs
    2) Guaranteed non-duplicate
    3) More Cards in pack to reduce chance of duplicate
    4) All Masterpiece Elite pack cost 1000 or less
    5) All Masterpiece Elite Pack cost 1001 - 2000
    6) All Masterpiece Elite Pack cost 2001 - 3000
    7) All Masterpiece Elite Pack cost 3000+


  • Volrak
    Volrak Posts: 732 Critical Contributor
    edited December 2017
    IM_CARLOS said:
    --Adam said:
    The current price is 400 for a ~10% chance, right? So a 100% chance would cost 10x as much, putting it at 4K in the current market.  I'm not saying it's reasonable, but that'd be the math.  3K is actually a pretty good deal when you look it at that way.  (that's how F2P game psychology works!)
    10% x 10 = 100%? 

    I don't think so...
    What Adam probably means is the cost for an expected return of 1 MP is 10x as much as the cost for an expected return of 0.1 MP.  (But you make an important distinction, since if reactions to booster crafting details told us anything, it's that the players love short-term guarantees more than long-term averages.)

    Krishna said:
    Regardless, things likely won't stay the same in regards to the Elite Packs. I  admit, I am looking forward to seeing what they release.
    I'd put a fair chance on something changing... eventually.  And ideas are good.  But given that Oktagon haven't given any suggestion at all that they plan to work on this, I wouldn't set my expectations too high just yet.
  • sjechua
    sjechua Posts: 173 Tile Toppler
    How about set specific non-duplicate Masterpiece only Elite Packs for 1,000 Jewels? So, 4 sets with 10 MPs each ... Which one would you purchase?

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