Ideas from another game that could benefit MPQ

D4Ni13

So I discovered a new game recently, and I found some really nice concepts there, that I would like to share here, for potential improvements in the future.

The game I'm talking about is Injustice 2 (mobile version), which is very close to the PC or console game, but with some differences that are similar to MPQ in collecting & promoting characters. I will call it INJ from now on.  

So what I like about that game and I think could be brought in MPQ as well: 

1. Character Promotion

INJ has a system with characters ranging from 1 star to 5 star. A lot fewer characters than MPQ (but is a lot newer also - half a year I think). There are multiple versions of one character (like Batman, Wonder Woman, an so on) and the differences between them are in abilities and stats. Top character right now is 4*.

The good part is that you can essencially promote a 1* character to 5* if you want. I don't know if it would be equal to a 4* character that was promoted to 5*, but I did promote several characters from 1* to 3* and their stats increased with the change, so I think it's pretty possible that a 1* promoted to 5* would be at least decent in that tier. 

Personally I would welcome such a system in MPQ. I may not promote a Juggernaut to 5*, but there are a lot of 3* that I would promote to 4* and 5* if I could. We already have Balance of Power where every character is a 5* essencially, so why not having the option to have this in game all the time as well ? (of course promotion costs credits, but in INJ those are the standard currency - in MPQ that would be ISO-8). 

2. Achievements & Rewards

INJ has an achievement system that gives you rewards for having a certain number of characters, playing a certain number of battles, beating a certain number of missions in campaign and so on. While some of them are one-time completion, they also have a lot of ongoing ones. For example, playing 10 Arena battles gives you a reward, and after claiming it, you get another with playing 15 and so on. And the rewards scale with the ongoing achievement. 

That would be an awesome addition to MPQ and there is a lot of potential here as well. I mean yeah, we already have champion rewards, but this could be a really good way to gain more ISO-8 in the game and would help with a long time problem. 

3. PvP

Now this is one area where MPQ is searching for solutions, and INJ can help here as well. In INJ you have Arena that is always 3 days and a half long (which I think it's a good thing overall). You can play 3v3, or even 1v3, and you are matched according to a threat level that your characters have. So the matches are usually balanced. Of course there are tips & tricks and you could find easier battles or hard ones too. Another difference is that you have a limited number of fights with a certain character: every character can play in Arena 5 times and after that you have to wait for refresh (10 hours) to play with that character or you can use gems to refresh another 5 plays (gems are like HP used to be in MPQ before CP, so the premium currency, but there are a lot of ways to get gems without spending money. Also there is no limit to play with characters outside of Arena). 

It's an interesting system because it forces you to have variety, one thing that is desperately needed in MPQ. You see a lot of Medusa, Groket & Gamora in PvP ? Well that would be a lot less present with such a system. Now I'm not sure if the INJ system is a good example for MPQ, but it is something to take into consideration. 

Another thing that I like it's the reward system in PvP. You have tiers with different rewards, but the nice part is that gems are present in every tier. The first tier has few gems, and they grow more and more. You also cannot fall from a tier once you got there. 

I like this system a lot because it doesn't force you to grind. We currently grind a lot both in PvE and both in PvP to get to the reward we most want (CP or covers). With the INJ system in MPQ, every player could get CP, but just a lower number of it. One player could play how much he/she would want, and still get some part of the 'honey'. But if they grind they would be rewarded for that. The system also has a daily reward based on what tier you are in that day, which gives credits (would be ISO-8 in MPQ) and the rest of the rewards once the event is finished.

This is how the system looks in INJ: 

Top Tier

5000 Credits (Daily)

1000 Gems (at the end)

600 Arena Shards (at the end) - used to buys things from Arena only

360 Hero Shards (at the end) - used to unlock characters

...

Other tiers in between

...

Tier 3

1000 Credits (Daily)

80 Gems (at the end)

40 Arena Shards (at the end) - used to buys things from Arena only

10 Hero Shards (at the end) - used to unlock characters

Tier 2

750 Credits (Daily)

75 Gems (at the end)

20 Arena Shards (at the end) - used to buys things from Arena only

5 Hero Shards (at the end) - used to unlock characters

Tier 1

500 Credits (Daily)

70 Gems (at the end)

20 Arena Shards (at the end) - used to buys things from Arena only

This could be translated in MPQ like this (just an example, numbers would be adjusted): 

Top Tier

20000 ISO-8 (Daily)

25 CP (at the end)

1000 HP (at the end)

1 Latest Token (at the end)

2 4* Covers (at the end)

...

Other tiers in between

...

Tier 3

5000 ISO-8 (Daily)

5 CP (at the end)

250 HP (at the end)

1 4* Covers (at the end) 

Tier 2

3000 ISO-8 (Daily)

3 CP (at the end)

150 HP (at the end)

2 3* Covers (at the end) 

Tier 1

2000 ISO-8 (Daily)

1 CP (at the end)

100 HP (at the end)

1 3* Covers (at the end) 

So do you like any of this things ? Would you want to see any of them in MPQ in the future ? 

rbdragon

There's a few issues in you're analysis unfortunately. I've been playing IJ2 since the beginning as a reference:

Another difference is that you have a limited number of fights with a certain character: every character can play in Arena 5 times and after that you have to wait for refresh (10 hours) to play with that character or you can use gems to refresh another 5 plays (gems are like HP used to be in MPQ before CP, so the premium currency, but there are a lot of ways to get gems without spending money. Also there is no limit to play with characters outside of Arena). 

The refresh period for the arena is 12 hours, but that's kinda nitpicky. The real issue is that you say there is no limit to play with characters outside of arena, and although that is true in that if they are downed, there is no waiting to regain health, you are limited in how much energy you can use. At level 60 (current max), I get 118 "energies," which goes really fast in campaign mode - the heart of how you level up the character's powers/abilities.

Another thing that I like it's the reward system in PvP. You have tiers with different rewards, but the nice part is that gems are present in every tier. The first tier has few gems, and they grow more and more. You also cannot fall from a tier once you got there.

You absolutely can drop a level - especially the higher you get as the prizes are ultra competitive near the top (sound familiar?) And the prizes are not really that worth it unfortunately given how much work you need to put into the arena - it's a repetitive boring slog (again, sound familiar?). But you do earn gems at every level, and gems are quite valuable in the game.

I do love the short arena seasons - two a week is a big step up from the once a week slog where you had to grind so much to hold your spot...only to be dropped down by someone because they were awake at the right time.

Oh, one other thing about the arena - you're placed in a bracket based on when you joined the game - so if you just joined, no wonder you're having a great time! I joined at the beginning, so I'm with all the pre-release players and the megawhales. My score in your arena would probably get me much more, even though we can fight the same people. That part sucks big time. Imagine having every PVP event you're placed against players based on when you joined the game (not the event), regardless of roster level?

D4Ni13

rbdragon said:

There's a few issues in you're analysis unfortunately. I've been playing IJ2 since the beginning as a reference:

Another difference is that you have a limited number of fights with a certain character: every character can play in Arena 5 times and after that you have to wait for refresh (10 hours) to play with that character or you can use gems to refresh another 5 plays (gems are like HP used to be in MPQ before CP, so the premium currency, but there are a lot of ways to get gems without spending money. Also there is no limit to play with characters outside of Arena). 

The refresh period for the arena is 12 hours, but that's kinda nitpicky. The real issue is that you say there is no limit to play with characters outside of arena, and although that is true in that if they are downed, there is no waiting to regain health, you are limited in how much energy you can use. At level 60 (current max), I get 118 "energies," which goes really fast in campaign mode - the heart of how you level up the character's powers/abilities.

Well, I know about energy, but I didn't think this was relevant since MPQ does not have the energy mechanic and I don't think that would benefit MPQ. I only mentioned that thing so people would not misunderstand that I would propose to limit the time they can play a character in MPQ.

I don't know if the Arena itself would benefit MPQ as a system either, but I like the concept and it is worth considering as they are searching for solutions as we speak. 

rbdragon said:

Another thing that I like it's the reward system in PvP. You have tiers with different rewards, but the nice part is that gems are present in every tier. The first tier has few gems, and they grow more and more. You also cannot fall from a tier once you got there.

You absolutely can drop a level - especially the higher you get as the prizes are ultra competitive near the top (sound familiar?) And the prizes are not really that worth it unfortunately given how much work you need to put into the arena - it's a repetitive boring slog (again, sound familiar?). But you do earn gems at every level, and gems are quite valuable in the game.

I do love the short arena seasons - two a week is a big step up from the once a week slog where you had to grind so much to hold your spot...only to be dropped down by someone because they were awake at the right time.

Oh, one other thing about the arena - you're placed in a bracket based on when you joined the game - so if you just joined, no wonder you're having a great time! I joined at the beginning, so I'm with all the pre-release players and the megawhales. My score in your arena would probably get me much more, even though we can fight the same people. That part sucks big time. Imagine having every PVP event you're placed against players based on when you joined the game (not the event), regardless of roster level?

I tried to see if I can drop a level and I couldn't so I assumed that you wouldn't. Good to know that you can. Injustice PvP has its problems too. For example, I don't like that you cannot see how much you have until you can advance in tiers (or at least I didn't find any way of doing it). Also, for some reason I find it harder to fight 3v3 than 1v3, since when I play 1v3 I usually fight againts weaker characters that combined have the threat of my single hero. This is definitely a weak spot and could create a lot of problems in the future (if it doesn't right now). 

I didn't know about the placement in bracket either, because there is no info about it, so thanks for the info as well. 

The thing is that MPQ does not have to take the system as a whole and just implemented. That would be bad. But it could take what it is good from the system and make for a better PvP experience. Or it could make a different system entirely. I just wanted to share my experience there, because I found it a little refreshing coming from the heavy grind here. Having resourses available at every tier is a good idea in my book to cut a bit of grinding down. Promoting characters is also one idea I would like to have here. And achievements as well. But again, not exactly how it is implemented there, but take what is good only. 

D4Ni13

So @rbdragon since you are playing both games, and you are in top players in Injustice, how would you compare the experience in MPQ with the one in Injustice ? What do you like there and would like to see here ? You have a bigger picture than me, so you experience could really add to this discussion

Keirain1982

You dare use a DC game in a Marvel environment?!? Shame on you

In all seriousness, I like some of your suggestions, and actually some of them are similar to what we have now, just a bit more diluted.

Unfortunately, I don't think your suggestions will get implemented as we're too far into the hole to dig ourselves out.

I particularly like the idea of one character at different tiers. That could cut rosters down a little bit, and you could choose which version you wanted to use in your matches.

wymtime

I think MPQ does a lot of things similar to the ideas you have with shield rank and CL.  I think a simple suggestion would be:
PVP: go back to a wins based system with a lower total of wins required but CP in progression at higher CL.
#2 season rewards keep as points based but significantly buff the rewards.  Right now season rewards are very light.
#3 keep simulator as points based but increase the rewards based on CL
#4 have a weekly gauntlet with updated rewards.  It does not have to be all 3 subs each week but the opposit have week one be the easy sub week 2 harder week 3 hardest sub.  Or run a gauntlet based on CL for players to choose how hard they want to play for their rewards.  This will give players a week to get progression only rewards and not play on a timer similar to shield training but without required levels to play the game.

Straycat

I can't speak to most of the INJ comps since I haven't played that game past the tutorial and to link it to my PS version.
1. Character promotion. So how does that work with champ levels? I would be cool with 2* champ levels going up to 470+, because that doesn't cost any extra iso. Being able to level up a 1* to 4* territory would just cause my total iso deficit to skyrocket.

2. I'm always down for achievements whenever someone suggests it here. I just started Wolfenstein 2, and I like seeing the marker fill up on the side, 4/10 environmental kills. Or even in INJ 2 on PS4, I might randomly get a daily goal of 3 uppercuts or something. Any sort of achievement system would be welcome in MPQ.

3. Harder for me to judge pvp mechanics since I don't play it for placement. But the INJ system seems to involve gates that don't exist in MPQ outside of boss events. I guess that would be good

Dormammu

I despise games with 'energy' that limits how much you can play them. I've never understood why developers insist on using this mechanic in their games. Yes, it can generate revenue but more often than not it leads to players moving on and playing something else. Quite often, the further you advance in the game, the more 'energy' is required.

One of the reasons I love Marvel Puzzle Quest so much is because they have avoided this mechanic, or at least made it so their 'energy' (health) becomes less and less of a limiting factor the more you expand and improve your roster until it isn't even an issue.

This is (one of the reasons) why in a year or two, Injustice 2 and a hundred other games like it will disappear from mobile app stores and Marvel Puzzle Quest will still be here.

maguirenumber6

Achievements in MPQ could be a great way to earn some more iso. Achievements could be things like recruiting your first 4* or 5*, maxing a 3*, champing a 4* or  finishing in a certain position for the first time in PvP/PvE.

Kevmcg

I've posted this before, so will do it again. Similar to Fantasy Football, have a roster cap event. You can pick any 2-3 characters, but the total levels have to be 700 or less, 800 or less, etc. depending on your CL. Combined Arms requires a 2,3,4 star mix and is one of the events the player base tends to like based on the variety allowed. Having a max level cap would also allow for variety in setting up your best team to take down the opponent.

Ruinate

I would like to see D3 start to sell things other than power.  I have no evidence of this, but I do believe that some of the negative changes for the player base is to increase revenue.  Not much else you can do when you only sell one thing.  Something that doesn't affect game play such as character or board skins would be nice.  Then maybe we wouldn't think that a change is made to increase health packs sales so often.  

Jaedenkaal

Dormammu said:

I despise games with 'energy' that limits how much you can play them. I've never understood why developers insist on using this mechanic in their games. Yes, it can generate revenue but more often than not it leads to players moving on and playing something else. Quite often, the further you advance in the game, the more 'energy' is required.

One of the reasons I love Marvel Puzzle Quest so much is because they have avoided this mechanic, or at least made it so their 'energy' (health) becomes less and less of a limiting factor the more you expand and improve your roster until it isn't even an issue.

This, plus 1000. This is easily why I still play MPQ after 3 years and barely look at other mobile games.

Daredevil217

Being able to progress the more you play rather than regress when you play more in PVP

- This idea is brought to you by every game with a progression system, ever.

Borstock

I think the daily achievements thing is covered by DDQ. Overall achievements are covered by SCL levelling iso bonuses, champ rewards, and rewards for every won battle. I think we are good there.

I will admit that I always kinda wished we could promote characters to a different star level, but I don't know how it would work. Juggernaut covers drop like rain. OML covers do not. Wouldn't it end up being too easy to 5* Juggernaut? 

Honestly, I kind of just want to be able to use 2* Storm more often because I love her white costume. 

D4Ni13

Dormammu said:

I despise games with 'energy' that limits how much you can play them. I've never understood why developers insist on using this mechanic in their games. Yes, it can generate revenue but more often than not it leads to players moving on and playing something else. Quite often, the further you advance in the game, the more 'energy' is required.

One of the reasons I love Marvel Puzzle Quest so much is because they have avoided this mechanic, or at least made it so their 'energy' (health) becomes less and less of a limiting factor the more you expand and improve your roster until it isn't even an issue.

This is (one of the reasons) why in a year or two, Injustice 2 and a hundred other games like it will disappear from mobile app stores and Marvel Puzzle Quest will still be here.

I agree with you 100%.I like only the Arena mode of the game which doesn't have energy limitation, but number of games played, and I was questioning if that idea would be good for MPQ as well. We already have the health mechanic, so there's no need to think about energy, because it's clear that's not going to happen, and it would be a really bad move. But what if you would have G4mora PvP (just an example) and besides her you cannot use the same character more than 5 times in 10 hours (again, just an example, the number may vary according to MPQ standards - we take only the idea of the INJ Arena and adjust the idea for our game with our rules, and so on). Would that be a good thing for variety ? Would that be a good thing for competitive as well ? What if you cannot use your 5* Gambit or 5* Thanos more then X times every 10 hours ? Would that be a good thing ? Furthermore, having tier rewards rather than one single progression for everybody in the CL level would be better or worse overall ? 

Those are the questions that make sense. Energy is not of our concern. I agree that it is a iffy mechanic, and in INJ defense, they already have the console and PC versions which are making revenue due to first time sale and DLC packs. Frankly I only joined that game because they announced adding TMNT next year (due to crossover with Batman) and I'm a huge TMNT fan. In the long run, I don't know if INJ would grow to be as good as MPQ. It depends. Still they are only a half year old, and lets remember how MPQ looked at that age. 

Borstock said:

I think the daily achievements thing is covered by DDQ. Overall achievements are covered by SCL levelling iso bonuses, champ rewards, and rewards for every won battle. I think we are good there.

I will admit that I always kinda wished we could promote characters to a different star level, but I don't know how it would work. Juggernaut covers drop like rain. OML covers do not. Wouldn't it end up being too easy to 5* Juggernaut? 

Honestly, I kind of just want to be able to use 2* Storm more often because I love her white costume. 

I tend to disagree a bit on the covering of achievements. Rewards for every won battle are nowhere near achievements rewards. I guess you can say that champion rewards are a lot closer, but still, it's different. It's not about the rewards per se, but more about the feeling you have when you get something because you recruited the number 100th roster space, for having 20 4* heroes, for fighting 1000 battles, for being top 10 in an event 3 times. Things like that. 

Promoting characters would require some thinking, because like you said there is an availability issue. But I'm sure there could be a lot of ways to implement that. If we look at Balance of Power alone, it's nice that you can play Juggernaut at 550, but he's nowhere near the level of quality as sole 5* or 4* at level 550. 

Borstock

But if they instituted those kinds of achievements, wouldn't it just mean we'd have to play even more? That was a complaint during win based PvP. Or if it's just something you get after a certain amount of time, you're not really changing the game. You're just asking for more rewards for the same amount if work. I don't really feel like that works. 

Juggernaut may not be the only example that matters. For example, there are several 4* characters that would be problematic at level 550. Wouldn't we be turning the whole game into the Balance of Power PvP?

Again, I like the idea. I've thought about it myself a lot. I just don't know how it could work without a drastic change to the game. 

Spudgutter

You forgot 3 other small things that are pretty neat, one of which there was a survey in mpq about adding as a feature.

1.  Being able to send characters out on "missions."  The limitation is you can only send 3 at a time, and you cannot use them while they are gone.  There are about 8 or so lengths of time they can be gone, ranging from 45 minutes to 12 hours. The longer they are gone, the more xp and in game currency they bring back.  As a bonus, you can upgrade this feature to reduce the time away to as low as 30 minutes and 10 hours.  Upgrading also increases the chance of them bringing back gear and the "gems" that are the highest currency in the game. For an added thematic bonus, catwoman always brings back (steals) more.

2. Autoplay. Going into an easy match, you can let the computer play itself. Granted, the counter argument is why play if you arent playing, but if the game is going to force me to play super easy matches, it sure is a nice option to have.

3.  Auto-complete matches.  Similar to number 2, but even better.  Logging in everyday, it gives you 3 tokens to automatically complete a campaign mission, so you can instantly get the rewards.  Obvious, this could be abused in mpq for speed clearing pve, but man, it would be awesome for ddq.

D4Ni13

Spudgutter said:

You forgot 3 other small things that are pretty neat, one of which there was a survey in mpq about adding as a feature.

1.  Being able to send characters out on "missions."  The limitation is you can only send 3 at a time, and you cannot use them while they are gone.  There are about 8 or so lengths of time they can be gone, ranging from 45 minutes to 12 hours. The longer they are gone, the more xp and in game currency they bring back.  As a bonus, you can upgrade this feature to reduce the time away to as low as 30 minutes and 10 hours.  Upgrading also increases the chance of them bringing back gear and the "gems" that are the highest currency in the game. For an added thematic bonus, catwoman always brings back (steals) more.

2. Autoplay. Going into an easy match, you can let the computer play itself. Granted, the counter argument is why play if you arent playing, but if the game is going to force me to play super easy matches, it sure is a nice option to have.

3.  Auto-complete matches.  Similar to number 2, but even better.  Logging in everyday, it gives you 3 tokens to automatically complete a campaign mission, so you can instantly get the rewards.  Obvious, this could be abused in mpq for speed clearing pve, but man, it would be awesome for ddq.

I agree this could be neat, but not for everybody. Operations could not be so welcomed. I remember when TU meant that you cannot play that hero for a while, and people didn't enjoyed it. It was similar to operantions in INJ, so I don't know...