What makes a coalition?

shteev

span_argoman said:

shteev said:

Volrak said:

Much of the argumentative energy here seems to have been spent on things which weren't anyone's actual point.  (What a waste.)

That's because nobody actually wants to be having this discussion at all... it's only ever brought up as a way of shutting down the feedback of other forum members.

I for one am actually rather interested in this discussion really. So don't be jumping the gun claiming no one is. The issue was to defuse the existing debate points before moving on to talk about the role of coalitions in the game.

For one, no one has ever gotten round to disputing the point about coalitions being a focal point for this game / core focus of MtGPQ.

I get that it is a big part of why so many people are still hanging onto this game despite the various issues we've had with the game. I don't see how it is a key focus of the game.

There are people who play this game to compete for prizes and enjoy that banding together with like-minded players gives them an extra benefit in-game.

There are players who just enjoy having a group of people to hang out with and share their experience of the game with.

There are players who enjoy playing the game, love improving their own game and care little for cooperative play (who have largely been driven away by the termination of QB).

There are players who play just because they enjoy the game mechanics and wish for more solo content. Rewards of any type are just there to give them greater access to the experience which the game has to offer.

And the official forums being a social platform, is more likely to attract and retain players who come from the first group. Especially if we consider that this is one of the primary recruiting grounds of these mega coalitions. So a lot of people here fighting to prioritise coalition play and rewards isn't surprising.

But don't let that mislead people into thinking that coalition play should be the one to be promoted over all else. They're just over-represented here.

Ok, Well I for one am absolutely prepared to cede the ground that coalition play should be the central focus of the game. I've never made that point myself.

I've also never noticed any coalition players demand that solo events be reconfigured to their coalition based needs.. so why are particular solo players frequently, loudly, and with rather unpleasant strategy demanding that coalition events be reconfigured to their solo based needs?

Solo play for solo players, coalition play for coalition players. Does that sound reasonable?

Mainloop25

luckyvulpi said:

Mainloop25 said:

If that's what it sounds like then come join us and see how far from the case it actually is.

People come and go all the time for various reasons. Least of which is because of it being  a hostile environment. 

I really can't tell if this invitation is sarcastic or not, but I'm going to have to decline.  People with your attitude are why I've quit competative coalitions and why I've chosen to stay away from them.  If inviting someone to your coalition is the only counter argument you have, then I think we're done here.  You'll keep thinking your coalition is friendly while doing unfriendly things, and I'll have to accept that humans still do deceitful things when manipulated by greed, and do my best to avoid them.

It was a serious invitation but I knew full well you wouldn't take it. No amount of explaining our workings was changing your mind about your assumptions of my group, so the only way to convince you otherwise was to see it for yourself.

Competitive coalitions aren't for everyone. Heck, even I go through phases of the level of competition I want to participate in. It's just that when assumptions and accusations are being thrown around about how they work, I have to step in and try to clarify some things. 

Furordraco

The feeling bad part is your own. When i miss 8 fights in rotgp, i know that no one will scold me for it, but i will feel bad because i let my coalition down. On the other hand, if i miss events and i dont comunicate with anyone about it, even though they might be close friends, i would still want them to kick me out, and it wouldnt make them less friends to me. They made a choice based on the needs af a group and not a single person, and because of me, single dude whos causing problems, should they just say "well hes a friend lets bring everyone down cause of him..."? No way!!!! friendship also means sticking to what you say you will do with your friends, may it be for a game or for keeping the earth spinning round or whatever. There are standards to play this game and coalitions are pretty clear on how they want things to work. The middle ground does not exist. @Ohboy of course your teammates will think better of you if you do good on events...whats wrong with that? and if they are your friends and you do bad they will probably scold you...because a real friend tells you to your face what you dont want to hear and not what you want to hear.

span_argoman

shteev said:

Ok, Well I for one am absolutely prepared to cede the ground that coalition play should be the central focus of the game. I've never made that point myself.

I've also never noticed any coalition players demand that solo events be reconfigured to their coalition based needs.. so why are particular solo players frequently, loudly, and with rather unpleasant strategy demanding that coalition events be reconfigured to their solo based needs?

Solo play for solo players, coalition play for coalition players. Does that sound reasonable?

Oh come on, if we want to pick on individuals, there are those who have suggested to make some of the weekday PvP events coalition events again. There are those who have proposed to increase coalition rewards for one reason or another.

While not direct demands on the player experience of the other player types, changes in the extent of rewards from one category is incentivisation for players to focus more on a certain aspect of the game.

At the end of the day, players still need those Crystals and Jewels to fill out their collection for one purpose or another. Increasing the share of rewards from coalition play from say 20% to 30% would make these other players lose out more by not actively engaging in the competitive coalition aspect of the game.

I don't appreciate the (not very subtle?) demonising of these other players who are vocal about taking a stand different from yours. Maybe they aren't as eloquent with words. Maybe they feel strongly enough about it to be blunt in their words like how MtGPQ players went from polite to blunt to paggro to sarcastic to openly insulting in their interactions with Hibernum on these very forums.

I'm not condoning the behaviour by explaining it. But you're not exactly a role model yourself in tactfully and politely communicating with others on this forum. And perhaps when people see that a prominent personality (or personalities) gets away with it so frequently, they expect that this is the norm for the place. It's just more annoying when you're on the receiving end.

But back to the point itself why people might even make these comments. It's cause it makes perfect sense to such a player.

For a solo player maximising rewards, the more events he or she can afford to play, the better. People generally tend to have more time on weekends and hence having the two most rewarding events happen primarily on the weekends is great for solo players.

Likewise, for those not caring about the intricacies of competitive coalition play, it makes perfect sense to forgo the additional coalition rewards to save one's sanity.

And while coalition-centric players have shared their own pains regarding this arrangement, the explanations were strictly made from their own perspective.

So if one side thinks their suggestions are logical and the other side fails to explain in a way that the first side understands, it's hard not to see it devolve into a haha you're just torturing yourself-why don't you understand situation.

Kind of like how a sports fan might have difficulty explaining to someone not interested in their favourite sport why the sport is so awesome.

So really, there are different priorities at play there. Maybe both sides should try to understand the other side a little better and think about how better to engage.

babar3355

Everyone knows that people that don't play in competitive coalitions don't have souls.  And everyone who does play in competitive coalitions are commi-terrorists.

Not sure how this turned into such a judgmental poo-slinging fest, but I think we would all be better served not seeking to judge or label each other.  (Especially considering most of us don't know each other from Adam).  

Ridiculous.

Furordraco

@span_argoman everyone is saying what they think about how coalitions are or should be..and how we see it all works. Of course most comments will be self made opinions. But we are here to confront opinions thats what forums and threads are for.  @babar3355 at this point you should know that all the discussions like this one end in an opinion fest and aggresiveness. We are all flawed humans.

luckyvulpi

I think when people started to bring in their own real coalitions as examples instead of using hypothetical ones is when mudslinging started. Because suddenly anything remotely negative someone says about an example is mudslinging and that shuts down every counter argument.  This is why I didn't want to bring up a specific coalition in the deleted thread but someone brought their own coalition up and every counter argument for that is now mudslinging.

Brigby

*Please keep all comments civil and on-topic to the discussion of "what makes a coalition." Please do not reference in-game players nor coalitions, unless given express permission to. Thank you!

Mainloop25

luckyvulpi said:

@Mainloop25

Quick question:

Was I flagged for implying that your coalition isn't friendly, or that I didn't like your competative attitude?

I could understand the first one, but having different opinions on attitudes happen all the time so I wouldn't really understand the second one... So just want to clarify which one.


Also:  Do you happen to be part of the [redacted] discord chat alliance?  I got invited to the chat but I havn't said anything.  I was actually thinking of joining it since the people chatting seem nice, but if you're in it at the top, I wouldn't want to have to deal with your competative attitude and you guys probably wouldn't want me after this.  So just wanted to know if you're there or not.as

I think [redacted] (my coalition alliance)  is part of the [redacted], but I actually don't go much outside of the team's Discord chat. So if you are trying to stay away from me that is the best place to hang out, lol. 

As far as the flagging goes? You'd have to ask the person who flagged you. Wasn't me. 

span_argoman

@Furordraco There's no issue with confronting opinions. My point was that when trying to engage someone if using your own language doesn't work, it helps to try to speak their language or understand things from their perspective.

luckyvulpi

Okay.  Clearly this is something they don't want us to discuss.  I should have learned from before when a new thread was made.  You guys win the argument.  I'm out

spadpl

Mainloop25 said:

luckyvulpi said:

@Mainloop25

Quick question:

Was I flagged for implying that your coalition isn't friendly, or that I didn't like your competative attitude?

I could understand the first one, but having different opinions on attitudes happen all the time so I wouldn't really understand the second one... So just want to clarify which one.


Also:  Do you happen to be part of the [redacted] discord chat alliance?  I got invited to the chat but I havn't said anything.  I was actually thinking of joining it since the people chatting seem nice, but if you're in it at the top, I wouldn't want to have to deal with your competative attitude and you guys probably wouldn't want me after this.  So just wanted to know if you're there or not.as

I think [redacted] (my coalition alliance)  is part of the [redacted], but I actually don't go much outside of the team's Discord chat. So if you are trying to stay away from me that is the best place to hang out, lol. 

As far as the flagging goes? You'd have to ask the person who flagged you. Wasn't me. 

[redacted] is not a part of [redacted] alliance, but many of their members and members of all other coalitions are part of our fun, helpful community and anyone is welcome! (PM me for an invite).

bk1234

[MOD MIC ON] This thread is being closed due to deviation from original topic and personal attacks against individuals / coalitions. While constructive disagreement is essential to any successful forum, let’s all try to remember to keep it civil so that this forum remains a helpful resource for anyone who visits. [MOD MIC OFF]