A wins-pvp'er driving standard transmission...

shartattack
shartattack Posts: 370 Mover and Shaker
in MPQ General Discussion
Scene: A wins-based pvp-er sells their car and gets a fantastic deal on a car with standard (manual) transmission.  They take it out for a test drive with the car salesperson...

WPVPer:  (Car stuck in first gear) This car is terrible!  It won't go a fast as my old car and it's very loud and grindy sounding.  I'm never going to get where i want!

salesperson:  Well, if you just put your foot on the clutch and shi---

WVPVPer: Shut up! I've always driven my car this way! I shouldn't need to learn any strategies or stuff! I'm just a casual driver! why would they make these stupid things!

salesperson: It's really quite responsive and easy, Here, I'll show you--\

WPVPer: (fingers in ears...) i can' t hear you!

<end scene>
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Comments

  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    The same argument works in reverse.

    PointsPvPer - What I can't shift anymore?  But I won't be able to accelerate as fast by redlining....  Sure i can still get there but it will take slightly longer...
  • Dotproduct
    Dotproduct Posts: 217 Tile Toppler
    I think OP is making the claim that those wanting win based PvP don't know how to play PvP and should adapt to the system that they have and not ask for change to something that already works if you know how to use it. 

    OP is also likely the same type of person that would say you should stick to a T9 keypad instead of a whole on screen keyboard.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,479 Chairperson of the Boards
    Possibly I'm missing something but didn't the Wins Based player actually say they were fine with slow and grindy because now their insurance premium was reduced to zilch and they could absorb hits from other road users hogging all the lanes with no loss of progress on their journey? Or maybe I just imagined about a month worth of posts to that effect...


  • DaveR4470
    DaveR4470 Posts: 931 Critical Contributor
    This is why I drive an automatic.
  • AlwaysWrong
    AlwaysWrong Posts: 67 Match Maker
    Yeah, but the dealership makes their money off of installing a clutch that has parts that overheat after a few gear changes so that the drivers have to regularly buy cooling pads to apply and then wait until it works again. 
  • AlwaysWrong
    AlwaysWrong Posts: 67 Match Maker
    Also, I think a good analogy would be drag racers and Sunday drivers arguing about how to drive. 
  • Yepyep
    Yepyep Posts: 955 Critical Contributor
    broll said:
    DAZ0273 said:
    Possibly I'm missing something but didn't the Wins Based player actually say they were fine with slow and grindy because now their insurance premium was reduced to zilch and they could absorb hits from other road users hogging all the lanes with no loss of progress on their journey? Or maybe I just imagined about a month worth of posts to that effect...


    You're correct.  Most Win Based proponents are fine abandoning any chance at placement to get the guaranteed progression rewards, some are even fine doing more total wins because they can stress less and fight easier opponents.  Most win based players are still working on their 4* rosters and that's what's most important to them.  T5 is unavailable for most in either system so the progression bird in the hand is worth two in placement bush.
    I think both of these are exactly right, at least as applied to me. I have about 14 champed 4*s, I think. 

    But I’ll add that I had little difficulty placing modestly in the wins system, too. I sure can’t place any better in the points system and progresssion beyond the 10cp-level is usually a lost cause. Very — to totally — dispiriting. 
  • Beta-Ray Bill
    Beta-Ray Bill Posts: 124 Tile Toppler
    So... why?
  • ZootSax
    ZootSax Posts: 1,819 Chairperson of the Boards
    Khanwulf said:
    Most people are smart enough to get off the damn road when it's points-season, which reduces the pool to play against, greatly.

    Isn't that the truth.  In the wins-based system, there were so many unshielded players out there that I could hit 575 points in ~10-11 wins just about every time...which didn't matter, as I needed 16.  I haven't played that high, yet, in the current season for IRL reasons, but it's looking like it's back in the 14-16 range again just like it usually was before.  

    So, using our car analogy, I'm driving the same damn car, yet I have one group of people telling me it was better last month and another arguing just as forcefully that it's better now.
  • shardwick
    shardwick Posts: 2,121 Chairperson of the Boards
    The owner of the car lot would be better off if they switched to selling hybrid vehicles.
  • DrDevilDinosaur
    DrDevilDinosaur Posts: 436 Mover and Shaker
    Can I get a self-driving car?
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,929 Chairperson of the Boards
    DrDevilDinosaur said:
    Can I get a self-driving car?
    Put Gambit and MEH on a team, and you’re halfway there.
  • WelcomeDeath
    WelcomeDeath Posts: 349 Mover and Shaker
    Dotproduct said:
    I think OP is making the claim that those wanting win based PvP don't know how to play PvP and should adapt to the system that they have and not ask for change to something that already works if you know how to use it. 

    OP is also likely the same type of person that would say you should stick to a T9 keypad instead of a whole on screen keyboard.

    That's awfully judgemental.  I like the points system.  I get the frustration of only making it to a certain point and getting hit back, but that's part of the game.  Progress your roster and you'l hit higher points.  People can't get every reward in the game without a certain roster strength and that's how it should be.  It gates rewards so that maybe people will spend some to get to the next set of rewards.  

    Comparing new pvp to a fully functioning system and standard pvp to a partially broken system isn't an accurate analogy.  Depending on how you look at it, someone could claim both systems are broken.  You have a 3*  roster and can't get the same rewards as a 4* guy?  That's actually ok.  You have a 4* roster and can't get to 1200 as easily as a 5* guy?  That's ok too!  I have a 5* roster and can't climb as easy as guys with 550 5*...and guess what?  That's ok too!  You have the ability to slowly progress your roster and/or use different techniques to score better.  

    One other thing to consider:  5* play isnt the same as other tiers of play.  Matches just take longer.  Like if they ran combined arms and 40 wins, no problem! 5* guys LIKE events like that because they're lightning fast and they can farm iso much more easily if they want.  40 wins in 3* or 4* play takes much less time.  So...you want a system that punishes you for progressing to the highest tier in the game?  I'm sorry, we tried that in pve.  It was a stupid system then and it's a stupid concept now.  Fix progression, make it something like what it was pre cupcake nerf so it makes sense.  Then see where we land.
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    shartattack said: 
    Scene: A wins-based pvp-er sells their car and gets a fantastic deal on a car with standard (manual) transmission.  They take it out for a test drive with the car salesperson...

    WPVPer:  (Car stuck in first gear) This car is terrible!  It won't go a fast as my old car and it's very loud and grindy sounding.  I'm never going to get where i want!

    salesperson:  Well, if you just put your foot on the clutch and shi---

    WVPVPer: Shut up! I've always driven my car this way! I shouldn't need to learn any strategies or stuff! I'm just a casual driver! why would they make these stupid things!

    salesperson: It's really quite responsive and easy, Here, I'll show you--\

    WPVPer: (fingers in ears...) i can' t hear you!

    <end scene>
    Yeah but the salesperson doesn't mention that the manufacturer doesn't like how their standard transmission is performing and are looking for ways to make it better.


  • Wumpushunter
    Wumpushunter Posts: 627 Critical Contributor
    Don't fall for the  us vs them, win vs points be against the devs who will never change anything to a hybrid system.  Why can you join a point system and me a win system, why can't some vault and others not, why are we all lumped together when it makes sense we are all different.
  • Taganov
    Taganov Posts: 279 Mover and Shaker
    Wumpushunter said:
    Don't fall for the  us vs them, win vs points be against the devs who will never change anything to a hybrid system.  Why can you join a point system and me a win system, why can't some vault and others not, why are we all lumped together when it makes sense we are all different.
    Well, it costs money to develop more options, and more options typically introduces lowered ease of use, more bugs and more maintenance.

    Also, because money. It looks like the whales' vets' engagement numbers in buy clubs PvP dipped with win-based.

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