3*->4* players: How's the game treating you?

Vyktori

TL/DR: Starting with SCL-based difficulty in PvE, recent game changes have made it more difficult to catch up to players who are already well-established in the 4* tier and higher.  I'm irritated.  Keep reading for a play-by-play of my experience.

I ask the title question because I've started to feel a bit beat up due to the game changes in the last few months.  Some background before I make my case:  I've been free-to-play since I installed MPQ a year ago.  I play PvE competitively (optimal clears and all that) and PvP minimally (more on that later).  I have all 3*s champed as of last week, 6 4*s champed, and I'm farming 2*s.

Back when I was in the 2*->3* transition at SCL 6, I could finish top 10 without the 4* essential.  This made sense - why should I need a 4* to make progress with my 3*s?  I was quite happy with 3 covers from placement and 2 from progression the next event.  I expected the trend to continue with 4*s once I started champing 3*s and moved up to SCL 7, albeit a little slower (1 and 1 instead of 3 and 2).  I was right, at least initially.  I started recruiting 4*s, and if I had the essential, I could get top 10 at SCL 7.  Awesome.

The other critical thing I discovered was that finishing top 50 in a sub at SCL 7 awarded 100 Hero Points (instead of 50 at SCL 6).  I can't over-emphasize the importance of that income as a F2P player.  I still haven't recruited everyone, so having enough HP to buy new slots limits my ability to open Latest Legends and Classic tokens without waste.

So, what happened?  SCL-based difficulty was introduced and 5* rosters started showing up at SCL 7.  Not great, but them's the breaks.  I still managed to top 10 on occasion, and if I didn't, I was at least bringing in HP, some 3* covers (placement, progression, alliance placement), and a 4* from progression.  At some point, I had enough 4*s rostered that the main constraining factor was my clearance speed.  This improved substantially once I had a couple 4* champs (particularly Rocket and Groot).  Cool - I was getting back on track.

Then, the 5* essential node gets added to SCL 7.  I'm sorry, what?  Why do I need a 5* to make progress on my 4* roster?  I tried to make a go of it, but I can't break top 50 without the 5*.  Now I have a decision to make:  Drop back down to SCL 6 so I can continue bringing in HP and earning 3* covers from placement or stay at SCL7 basically just for progression.  Well, I can't roster characters without HP and not even getting a 3* in placement after busting my **** isn't appealing, so I drop down when I don't have the 5*.  (For the record, I can top 10 at SCL 7 if I have the 5*, but making that a regular thing seems unsustainable with the nature of RNG and an advertised 3:2 Latest:Classic ratio for featured 5*s.)  This pretty much sucks.

But, wait, there's hope!  If PvP goes win-based, I can maintain a steady stream of 4* covers regardless of PvE SCL level as long as I put the time in.  Not optimal, but I'm willing to do it.  And I did, for one season.  And now it's been rolled back.  So I'm back to treating PvP like a sprint - join in the last hour or so and get as far as I can before the end or I get smacked down.  My champed 4*s allow me to just hit 800 or so before I get beaten back down which nets me the 3*.  I can't claim to understand needing 4* champs just to get a 3* reward.  I could no doubt improve my results if I were willing to shield and play the PvP metagame, but a.) I need the HP for roster slots and b.) I don't have the interest.

So there you have it.  Sorry for the novella, but I'm really frustrated with the way things have gone lately, especially the win-based rollback.  There was soooo much feedback that was ignored about why it wasn't a good system and how it could be changed to make everyone happy.  It failed so spectacularly (and predictably!) that it warranted an emergency rollback with no backup plan.  The whole situation was handled extremely poorly. 

In conclusion, I'm just wondering if my experience has been typical of other 3*->4* transitioners.  It seems we've gotten the short end of the recent series of sticks.  Anyone else feel this way?

- Vyktori

Uthgarprime

I just wanted to say kudos on using novella. Love big words.

Michaelcles

I was transitioning from 3 to 4 star land and I quit MPQ.  I’ve spent $200 USD, and was frustrated about how they introduced Rogue, and added a 5 star node into SCL 7.

I rated the game 1 star at the Apple Store, and post from time to time.  This type of game is terrible - they will keep adding higher levels and more characters all in an attempt to grab $$$.  I prefer games that when you buy, you get the whole thing.

This game can’t go on forever, eventually they’ll lose the license to the Marvel characters

aa25

I believe you are already catching up. What I wrote below is just to say that you are catching up, not trying to say you should experience the same slog as I did.

I have a full 4* roster now. I moved up to 4* land about a year ago (so about 1-year play time). Back then, there was no SCL, no 4* cover in the progression, no HfH, no BH. ISO income was like 10k per week. The main source of 4* covers is not and was not the cover in the progress. It is the CP. Back then, there was only 25 cp in the progression. The was a 4* cover in PvP progression, but I never got it either.

The main source of 4* covers are 3* champ rewards and CP which flows like fountain these days. 4* transition has always been a slow process, but it is also much faster than what it was. Be patient, you are getting there. Look at it this way, it took me about one year to get my first 4*. You already got 6 from the same time frame.

TPF Alexis

The real killer is the reduction in HP income. 3* to 4* transition involves a huge increase in number of roster slots. If you drop down to SCL6, it gets cut about in half. If you roll at SCL7 without the 5*, it drops way further. Even if you have the 5*, That node adds a ton of time to a transitioner's clears, both increasing the time investment in the game and hurting placement. It takes me longer to play SCL7 now than it did when I was solidly in 3* land, because that extra node has more than wiped out all the speed increases from the improvements to my roster.

Wumpushunter

It's going very slowly, like treading quick sand. All their changes and fixes of their changes keep me gasping while giving 2 + year players and whales VIP tours of quick sand fields.  

125 level increase, vaulting, HfH store, adding 5 nodes, abandoning win based pvp, everyone of those slowed my progression and helped those firmly in 4/5 land.

Vhailorx

Nice comment, tc!  

Bad news: 4* transition was long and slow for those of us who did it before clearance levels, and it sounds like it remains long and slow now.  And there are definitely reward imabalances (such as more or less needing 4*s, or at least very good champed 3*s, to get a single 3* cover from points-based pvp).  

Good news: demi just changed the point values of 5* essential nodes in pve.  This should reduce the number of high level rosters droppong down to cl 7: doing so now now puts a player's entire alliance at a significant disadvantage (please report your experience in hearts of darkness).

General thoughts: 

In the long-run, cp is better than 4* covers, so the points-based pvp system is better for players that stick around into 4* land and beyond (i know that's cold comfort now).  Just grind out your 10 cp + HP from every pvp event and hit progression in cl7 pve for the 4* cover and more cp; you will be making skow but steady progress.

Never spend HP on amything but roster space while still building your roster.  Be strong!  No cover pack purchases no matter what shuny bauble demi offers.

Ideally i would recommend that you save all LTs completely for now.  Entering 5* land will be mucb easier if you have a stockpile of 100+ LTs whenever you are ready to make that jump.  But there is also a case to be made for rostering each new 5* release (so you can play those essential nodes).  If you must open LTs, be sure to have enough HP on hand for a roster slot and stop if you pull a new character.  

Don't level your 5*s up above your boosted e* champs until you routinely have 1-3 boosted 4* champs each week (doing so will just make your pvp experience worse).

shartattack

Wumpushunter said:

It's going very slowly, like treading quick sand. All their changes and fixes of their changes keep me gasping while giving 2 + year players and whales VIP tours of quick sand fields.  

125 level increase, vaulting, HfH store, adding 5 nodes, abandoning win based pvp, everyone of those slowed my progression and helped those firmly in 4/5 land.

vaulting definitely helped newer players to the determent of veterans.  It helped me focus my roster and build 4* champs really fast.  It hurt veterans who were missing out on those top champ rewards.  270-300 champ levels generally aren't great.  Once you get over 320ish, they start to get really good.

Vhailorx

Wumpushunter said:

125 level increase, vaulting, HfH store, adding 5 nodes, abandoning win based pvp, everyone of those slowed my progression and helped those firmly in 4/5 land.

This is a somewhat dubious assertion.  Wins-based progression in pvp had no effect on the true whales; but it did hurt 5* transitioners a lot.  Hfh store is just a store.  It helps those who play enough or spend enough to have resources for the store,  that's not directly tied to roster strength at all.  Vaulting was great for post 4* whales (those who had all vintage 4*s up at 350+), but was also really good for 4* transitioners who got good new 4*s covered and champed much faster than was possible in 2016.  Increasing shield rank doesn't really have any affect on people below rank 125 at all.  Things are hardly as black and white as you suggest.

aa25

I think, of all recent changes, the first version of vaulting actually potentially separate vets and new-players and widen the gap the most. The 'hidden' problem is the boost lists still rotate through vintage 4*. In that vaulting system, new-players have zero chance to meaningfully cover any of the vintage 4* and put them in a permanent disadvantage position. (We had a few boss events during those time that only vintage 4* are boosted, iirc.)

Note: I'm not saying dilution is okay, but vaulting didn't solve anything either. It just moves the problem from one place to another.

veneretio

The biggest thing I find is the SCL system is kind of a joke for transitioners or at least, it is if the concept is we're suppose to be able to get placement. The reality is everyone that should be in SCL8 and 9 just drops en mass to the lower SCLs and takes all the placement rewards. That seems broken. I don't have any real advice on how to change that though as I don't think I'd want people to be locked out of picking lower SCLs.

Dormammu

I finished champing every single 3-star before moving on to the 4-stars. This transition occurred roughly 1 year ago. I now have 26 champed 4-stars and my 5-stars are slooooowly gaining coverage (the best one is at 12 covers). I'm planning on spending the bulk of 2018 finishing the 4-star tier as best I can and chipping away at coverage on my fives. Overall I've been pleased at my pace.

FYI - I'm a progression PvE player who goes for T20 placement on new character releases. I am a casual PvP player at best who will sometimes do 575 points for CP and occasionally reach 900 for the 4-star cover if its one I truly covet (the last time I did this was for Rogue's release). I'm hardcore enough that I'll farm LR seed teams when life isn't getting in the way.

mohio

The new change to points for the 5* essential node in CL7 should make you happier. Now it is just a small bonus to those that have him, not an insurmountable advantage. Others are complaining about it for other reasons, but now that I see your post on the matter, it actually makes some sense why they would do what they did. 

Anon

I downloaded this game shortly after it came out and getting characters was a hassle.

I wish Deadpools Daily, Champing, Shield Level, Bonus Heroes, and Respeccing were available back then. For all the **** the devs get, I'm grateful for all of these improvements.

Basepuzzler

Buy VIP.  HP income, 4* from the leg tokens, and intercepts.

Those people who you can't catch up to are probably both spending more and playing more.  Definitely spending more.  Not sure why you think you should be able to catch up without doing one of those two things.

Puritas

For context, I'm just starting the transition: 8 3* champs left to go; 60% of 4*s with at least one cover.

If I was focusing on MPQ and wanting to play many hours a day for max possible advancement, I agree it would be frustrating.

As it is, though, I can play ~90 mins/day in PvE for effortless top10 in SCL6 (where the CP from top5 in subs almost makes up for the lack of 4* from progression), or play even less for max progression in SCL7 when I know I'll be busy (or during 7-day events).

PvP win-based was awful for me because the sheer amount of time spent for the rewards was physically painful - I tried going for 40 win covers twice and didn't manage to force myself above 28, and all the 5* rosters who didn't want to grind dropped down to scl5-6 to take the CP rewards, making top10 well out of my reach.

With point-based, I can snipe a late bracket & play to 800 in about 90 mins, and get a top 10 reward from a lower scl.

I've tried playing the max advancement route, and with half the time spent I make about 90% of the progress; well worth it imo.

Jaedenkaal

Well, I just hit day 1101 today and have 32 champed 4*s. So I guess I'm more or less done transitioning, but this was definitely my transition year (I had 3 champs this time last year. Maybe 4).

I'm not that worried about 'catching up' with anyone, but I definitely feel like I'm making progress; I'm clearly rostering 4*s as fast as they're being released, and my hero point income has exceeded 1000 every two weeks for quite some time. I believe I also make enough ISO every 2 weeks to champ a 4*, so I'm at least breaking even on that front as well.

I have all the 5*s except Gambit and Thor, and the one Gambit required event was the only one I've missed so far. Presumably that'll happen more often unless I get lucky with latest legends tokens, but... meh.

I generally make top 100 in SCL 8, except during new character releases (presumably both because they're on the weekend and I have less free time, and because other people try harder than I do), and probably close to top 200 in PvP (I go for the first event token and thats it. too much hassle. And the 10 pack each season).

And that's been enough for me. I'm progressing, I'm taking it easy, and I'm still having a good time.