Tallyho, Tappers! Tap into this Tapping Poll!

aesthetocyst

Poll re: you and tapping ...

aesthetocyst

Tapping ... sometimes I go there. Can't do it every event, but when I WANT to win, it's an option.

Here we are embarking on another new release over another weekend. No better time to talk about tapping, right?

I know, it's only MEH Hulk, not so exciting, maybe tapping will not be so contentious because no one cares, but there are still a lot of players that go hard for every new release, because the game structure encourages it.

And yeah, there are other prominent issues monopolizing the air time right now, but with PVP rolled back, it's time for a subject change.

And tapping persists as a thing.
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The devs literally triple down it the last time PvE scoring was significantly changed, by raising the minimum points on some nodes up to 3, from 1, and others to 2. And statements have been made that tapping is necessary for the game. 

Yet it isn't exactly officially endorsed, either ... when asked, the response given is that it's "under evaluation" (aren't all aspects of the game under evaluation and subject to change as needed...?)

Tapping is only mentioned on the Forum in passing, and often derided. There certainly aren't any guides or resources concerning tapping, thought there are plenty on "optimal play."

Is tapping it officially/unofficially part of the game or not? 
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Questions, questions ...

Acceptable, or taboo? Widely employed yet little acknowledged, like a dirty little secret?

Is a lil bit of tapping OK / idle amusement / "necessary" tie-breaking mechanic and only ridiculous epic tap sessions considered barbaric / undesirable / exploitative?

If so ... if that dichotomy is being recognized by both devs and players, then where is the line?

Is tapping for high placement having widespread effect and warping the game, or is it limited to isolated cases? Even if only a few brackets are affected in a given event, each bracket is affecting hundreds of player that can see what's going on, and it's directly affecting the placement rewards of the t5, t10, or t25 players (or more?), depending on the extent.

Do people win competitive PvE brackets without any tapping? I really hope the answer is still yes. Obviously you can luck into a late bracket or slum, but if you're playing the whole event, in a high SCL, can you regularly win without tapping? Or is tapping an integral part of the bleeding edge of PvE?


Vote above, discuss below? Swap stories? And (mild) condemnations?

aesthetocyst

Tapping ... sometimes I go there. Can't do it every event, but when I WANT to win, it's an option.

As for me, I tap to make use of time when I'm ahead on a grind and trying to play competitively.

I only play competitively about half the time.

Twice this year, I decided to place top 2, and tapped to make it happen. 

I couldn't imagine going there every event, but it really wasn't that bad, esp. compared to the 3hr grinds of yesteryear.

BUT ... tapping is unlimited. If you've decided to tap to win and get in a tap-off with someone, yikes. You could wind up literally playing all day.

And that has literally happened, people literally playing all day. And nothing about the current PvE structure limits or discourages that. Only the sanity of the players and RL serves to keep this in check.

Beer40

Tapping ... I've heard of it ... don't know, don't want to know. Sounds nuts / ridiculous / is for losers.

I preferred this option: Tapping is an immoral unethical perverse unholy pagan abomination. I hit nodes as prescribed by the holy tenets of optimal play and not one tap more!

But I don't play optimally, so I went with the one I went with.

The rockett

Tapping ... to pad points when my timing is off, sure. Any more than that is nuts.

I only tap at the end of a sub if I finish early. Like maybe 5/10 mins.  All depends. Now if I have a tapper in my LB like I just did, I will watch them like a hawk and try and beat them at their own game.  Don't like it.  Missed 1st by 4 points due to it.  I really wish they would lock all nodes after 10 clears. 7 is the normal for high end pve play.  Gives you 3 more clears. I think that would work.   

aesthetocyst

Tapping ... sometimes I go there. Can't do it every event, but when I WANT to win, it's an option.

Beer40 said:

I preferred this option: Tapping is an immoral unethical perverse unholy pagan abomination. I hit nodes as prescribed by the holy tenets of optimal play and not one tap more!

But I don't play optimally, so I went with the one I went with.

Apologies, Beer. I try to put a lot of thought into poll options, but they aren't perfect. I wasn't meaning to imply that one was only for optimal players, just for people who have a moral objection to hitting a node more than the "optimal" # of times.

aa25

Tapping ... to pad points when my timing is off, sure. Any more than that is nuts.

Almost all the times T-T. There was one time I pulled off finishing 2 mins before the sub end. I was so happy.

Sm0keyJ0e

I would have selected this option:

While this immense amount of dedication is certainly impressive, we feel that this just isn’t a healthy way to play the game, and it isn’t fair to players who don’t want to grind trivially easy missions for a significant amount of time. --quote from @Brigby

Unfortunately, D3 completely missed the mark in trying to address the issue of tappers. They are simply gaming the system in one of any number of ways that the game currently allows. I don't blame the tappers. Some might have autism or no lives to speak of and therefore mindlessly hit the same node over and over for hours on end (we have all witnessed this). Personally, I prefer to walk my dog or pour a scotch on the rocks than to look at my phone anymore than I have to.

No, the problem isn't the tappers, it's that D3 not only allows it, they encourage it. I think they said something about tie-breakers, but that's hogwash. Tie-breakers already exist and work perfectly fine: the first person to hit a score number wins. Simple as that, end of story, would solve this whole mess.

Would love to understand the REAL reason behind allowing nodes to be worth fixed points forever so this mechanic can actually be exploited and abused the way it is.

vinsensual

Tapping ... to pad points when my timing is off, sure. Any more than that is nuts.

I tap if I have time left at the end of mistimed clears, and if there's an easyish node worth 2 pts.  Otherwise I would be OCD checking the rankings for 5 minutes with my butt clenched.  

Basepuzzler

Tapping is an immoral unethical perverse unholy pagan abomination. I hit nodes as prescribed by the holy tenets of optimal play and not one tap more!

It just puts everyone into a prisoner's dilemma.  Tap or don't tap.  Both don't tap, everyone is happy.  But if anyone taps the others lose.  Plus the tapper just wasted their own time.

if only there was some higher power that could eliminate this decision and make all players happier and better off.... @Brigby

wymtime

You left out a poll option 
Tapping: I don’t have time for tapping I have a life.

broll

I'm not sure if I read a poll or had a stroke..

broll

wymtime said:

You left out a poll option 
Tapping: I don’t have time for tapping I have a life.

It's assumed that if you spend time on the forums you don't have a life... Rightfully so based on my personal experience :-p

Phumade

Basepuzzler said:

It just puts everyone into a prisoner's dilemma.  Tap or don't tap.  Both don't tap, everyone is happy.  But if anyone taps the others lose.  Plus the tapper just wasted their own time.

if only there was some higher power that could eliminate this decision and make all players happier and better off.... @Brigby

Its really not the prisoner's dilemma for this reason. The tapper won't won without tapping period. In PVE, the fastest roster will always win unless the 2nd faster roster overtaps (or some other undiscovered mechanic). So its not realistic at all to expect 2-1000 to just do nothing and conceed defeat before 1st sub even over.

 i.e. There is no scenario for 2nd place to beat a faster roster without: a:) First place messes up timing. b:) 2nd place must play extra matches to make up for the point deficit embeded in a slower@Brigby


  Whats the point in playing an event, when the fastest roster (which we can pretty much determine before the event even starts) will always win the event (without excep@Brigby


    The game is alot more healthier (healthy for the game, who really cares about healthy for the player (its their discretionary time)) when there are alternative ways that other players can defeat a superior roster. Maybe that means 1. overtapping, 2. forcing the faster roster to decide between pvp/pve 3. ???

Jarvind

Instructions unclear, harvested maple syrup.

aesthetocyst

Tapping ... sometimes I go there. Can't do it every event, but when I WANT to win, it's an option.

Basepuzzler said:

It just puts everyone into a prisoner's dilemma.  Tap or don't tap.  Both don't tap, everyone is happy.  But if anyone taps the others lose.  Plus the tapper just wasted their own time.

if only there was some higher power that could eliminate this decision and make all players happier and better off.... @Brigby

No one needs a higher power for salvation; the power to be satisfied lies within you at all timrs.

All this is is a match-3 games with silly imagery around it. The rest is in your head!

aesthetocyst

Tapping ... sometimes I go there. Can't do it every event, but when I WANT to win, it's an option.

28 voted so far and so far only one cop to tapping to win (my own), and only one defense of tapping from another person. Well, sort of ... an acknowledgment that an alternative is needed to keep these events from going deterministic.

Sm0keyJ0e

Phumade said:

In PVE, the fastest roster will always win unless the 2nd faster roster overtaps (or some other undiscovered mechanic). 

Sorry but I completely disagree with you. There have been plenty of fights of similar rosters that have gone down to the wire. Not going to name names but myself and another person went back and forth in a recent 4-day event. I won a sub, they won a sub--we both tried to out-wait each other for the final clear to gain a slight edge.

A lot of it comes down to lucky (or unlucky) boards. Deciding when to start your final clear. Which toons you use. Whether or not someone wants to be competitive. Some times I don't care to compete for first even though I likely could with a "faster roster". I have also said Dang it! when I see a certain speedster show up in my bracket only to see THEM take it easy.

I would also say the reverse of your argument could be true: the roster with the most "free time" will always take first under the current system, and that roster could look like anything. Doesn't it make more sense that bigger, more developed rosters should compete outside of a pure time investment?

Daredevil217

Tapping ... I've heard of it ... don't know, don't want to know. Sounds nuts / ridiculous / is for losers.

No option for "I'd tap that!" invalidates the poll.

That said, I don't do it, but don't find it reprehensible either.  If someone is willing to spend all day on their mobile device, then they've earned that cover.  Good for them.

I am shocked that over 40% of the forums tap though. 

aesthetocyst

Tapping ... sometimes I go there. Can't do it every event, but when I WANT to win, it's an option.

Daredevil217 said:

No option for "I'd tap that!" invalidates the poll.

That said, I don't do it, but don't find it reprehensible either.  If someone is willing to spend all day on their mobile device, then they've earned that cover.  Good for them.

I am shocked that over 40% of the forums tap though. 

But that's one of my questions. Is all tapping undesirable? If not where is the line between the two?

If tapping were killed (all nodes go to 0 after X clears), would that be overall good or bad? Would it be tossing a baby with the bath water?

Pants1000

Tapping ... to pad points when my timing is off, sure. Any more than that is nuts.

I enjoy CL9 and just aim for t50.  Sometimes t20 if I have time and the 5* essentials aren’t too bad.  At that competitive level, there is no tapping, since the gap between t10 and t20 is thousands of points.