PVE restructuring thoughts

animaniactoo

Trying to flesh out this idea before posting in Suggestions. Yeah, I know it's long. I'd like to have a more defined shorter version to post as the actual suggestion.

Background: I am reaching serious burnout, and realized today that I am utterly bored with playing. Partly I haven't given up yet because I just became a co-commander for my alliance (which is not contributing to the burnout) and I don't want to turn around and drop the game, and partly because I've enjoyed the game for so long I'm just not ready to give it up yet.

The serious factors contributing to my burnout are twofold that are the same ones I see over and over again here:

• Time slots for PVE (which is what I primarily like to play) don't work with my schedule.

• Amount of time needed to play in one chunk in order to be competitive is prohibitive and feeling tied to the timers (which are better but still an issue).

and a third

OMG I am so tired of playing the same nodes over and over and over and over again. Both the number of repetitions for the node, and the storylines. This game seriously needs some more variety. Part of my initial enjoyment of the game was reading the dialogue and feeling like I was contributing myself to the fight, participating in a storyline myself. Now we all just hit the skip button because A) we've seen it before - and recently, and we need to hurry up and get through the node to get the timers started. Even playing with new characters or newly champed characters is not enough to make that fun and interesting anymore.

I have no suggestions about the third other than urging the devs as strongly as possible to put more focus on developing some additional storylines.

1 & 2 however, these are my initial thoughts:

1) For placement purposes, instead of tracking how long it takes someone to reach an overall score compared to others, track how long it takes them to finish a node and use that as the comparative score. So if Player A can't get to the node until 2 hours later than Player B, but finishes it in less time when they do ranks higher for that node. Cumulative score across all nodes determines the winner. All points count towards progression, as time now exclusively determines placement. Would need to put in a limiter that prevents from clearing fewer nodes but having a faster average time for only clearing those.

What I'm thinking this will do:
• Allow players to play on their own schedule within a slice
• Give players more flexibility in not needing to complete everything at one time.

2) Split the nodes into 3 groups, to run every 8 hours. 1st group is released when the slice opens. 2nd group is released 8 hours later, 3rd is released 8 hours after that. Each group is worth full points when it opens, and fewer points if you don't complete them before the next set opens. Kill refresh timers in terms of them coming back to full strength. No points grinding, no additional points available before refresh/next set of nodes.

That can run either as:
• The full set of nodes, number of replays available by refresh block (I think this is technically the easiest way to convert the current system). Clears are 2, 2, and 1.
• Nodes are grouped by Set A, the trivial nodes. Set B, the harder nodes. Set C, the essential nodes. Clears are 4, 2, and 2.
• Node are grouped by a trivial node, a harder node, and an essential for each set. Clears are 2, 2, and 1. (This would be my preference, but it would be harder to convert current assets to.)

What I'm thinking this will do:
• Break up the repetition of the same nodes over and over again with the storylines we have. Because even an 8 hour break between smaller clear sets will relieve some of what has become tedium. I can hate playing against the dark avengers a lot less if I only have to play against them 2x in a row instead of 4.
• Maintain elements of optimal play and the need to strategically plan your slice, etc. for when you can play within your schedule.
• Prevent the glazed over eyes of final clears to followed immediately by opening clears.

If 8 hours is too tied to the clock, maybe it's 2 12 hour blocks with 2 and 2 clears or 3 and 2.

3) Either make the 5 star essential solely for additional rewards within the node (remove points that would apply towards progression/placement entirely) or change essential characters based on SCL. So that 8 & 9 require 3, 4, and 5 stars but no 2 stars.

----------------------------

Thoughts?

Piro_plock

animaniactoo said:

2) Split the nodes into 3 groups, to run every 8 hours. 1st group is released when the slice opens. 2nd group is released 8 hours later, 3rd is released 8 hours after that. Each group is worth full points when it opens, and fewer points if you don't complete them before the next set opens. Kill refresh timers in terms of them coming back to full strength. No points grinding, no additional points available before refresh/next set of nodes.

How would it be different than 8h refresh timer we used to have in PVE? People didn't like playing on the clock, current system allows you to play whenever you want (if you play for progression)

Pants1000

What CL do you play, and what placement do you aim for?

You don’t need to play optimally if max progression is your main goal, and if your placement goals aren’t too high.

I play in CL9 and aim for t50.  That gets me a 4* cover from placement, and I’ve found I can skip some hard nodes, or play some nodes off the optimal schedule and still hit t50.  For me trying for t10 was stressful and not fun, so I just don’t do it anymore.

If you’re feeling burnout, take an event off, don’t worry about placement, or if you’re playing PVP too take a step back there.

On your 3rd point, I’d like to see Heroic events back, with or without the roster restrictions.  Just to have a few more stories in the rotation.  New events are always good too.  The Dr. Strange and Howard events were nice additions, let’s have more like them!  A Gauntlet run with revamped rewards would be a nice change of pace too.

animaniactoo

Piro_plock said:

animaniactoo said:

2) Split the nodes into 3 groups, to run every 8 hours. 1st group is released when the slice opens. 2nd group is released 8 hours later, 3rd is released 8 hours after that. Each group is worth full points when it opens, and fewer points if you don't complete them before the next set opens. Kill refresh timers in terms of them coming back to full strength. No points grinding, no additional points available before refresh/next set of nodes.

How would it be different than 8h refresh timer we used to have in PVE? People didn't like playing on the clock, current system allows you to play whenever you want (if you play for progression)

Because you could do them whenever you wanted for full points within that 8 hour block.

e.g. Slice starts at 5 pm, you can do the 2 needed for the first clear at 7 pm. Second set starts at 1 am, but as long as you get to them before 9 am you're fine and you get full progression points.

animaniactoo

Pants1000 said:

What CL do you play, and what placement do you aim for?

You don’t need to play optimally if max progression is your main goal, and if your placement goals aren’t too high.

I play in CL9 and aim for t50.  That gets me a 4* cover from placement, and I’ve found I can skip some hard nodes, or play some nodes off the optimal schedule and still hit t50.  For me trying for t10 was stressful and not fun, so I just don’t do it anymore.

If you’re feeling burnout, take an event off, don’t worry about placement, or if you’re playing PVP too take a step back there.

On your 3rd point, I’d like to see Heroic events back, with or without the roster restrictions.  Just to have a few more stories in the rotation.  New events are always good too.  The Dr. Strange and Howard events were nice additions, let’s have more like them!  A Gauntlet run with revamped rewards would be a nice change of pace too.

These days, usually CL7 and T50 is easy for me there, but I'm not as concerned with placement beyond that as I am with limiting time available to the amount I *want* to play in return for the rewards.

Burnout - been there done that, I can recognize this more than that will fix. It'll hold it off for a while but that's it. I've gotten to the point where the last few events if I was non-optimal enough to drop down to T100 or below, I didn't much care and I'm a more competitive person than that in general so if I don't care to that extent I'm not engaged.

Daiches

Asking for a PVE change when you play a lower scl for only progression? There's 2 scls above you with players that seem fine with the current system.

It's a lot better than 2h36 refreshes with overlapping subs for a single 4star for first place, or 8h refreshes, or any of the systems they tested. If you're already burning out trying to get progression on this system, take a few events off. Because progression requires you only to spread out half an hours worth of play over 24h. 

On the variety count it would be great if we could get Heroics back. That's 6 events we lost and an entire game mode.

jamesh

As far as ways to reduce burnout go, rather than getting people to repeat a mission four times to hit the hardest difficulty, why not let us take on the hardest difficulty right away and award the points for the easier versions you just proved you could complete?

I realise that this would potentially save on health packs (although how many do you actually use on the easier versions of the missions?), so perhaps it would make sense to have some incentive to do things the time consuming way.

LLohm

I’ll second all the asks for Heroics to be back with restricted roster please. I’m not for it if the rosters are not restricted. 

An open roster took away a lot of the fun.

animaniactoo

Daiches said:

Asking for a PVE change when you play a lower scl for only progression? There's 2 scls above you with players that seem fine with the current system.

It's a lot better than 2h36 refreshes with overlapping subs for a single 4star for first place, or 8h refreshes, or any of the systems they tested. If you're already burning out trying to get progression on this system, take a few events off. Because progression requires you only to spread out half an hours worth of play over 24h. 

On the variety count it would be great if we could get Heroics back. That's 6 events we lost and an entire game mode.

You misunderstand - I did not say I play only for progression anywhere. I said I play for T50 placement and I'm not concerned with higher placement than that. That's because of time constraints that mean I can't dedicate the correct blocks of time for ANY of the Slices to shoot for higher. Therefore, I'm generally playing at least an hour and a half over 24 hours. I would absolutely play a higher SCL if I were not penalized by needing to play relatively optimally in order to hit even T50.

Also, as stated in my OP, I'm looking at this from the standpoint of not just what is burning me out, but the particular mechanics that I see regularly complained about here as contributing to burnout. I'm not looking at it because it's burning ME out. The fact that it's burning me out is causing me to look at what's burning out a lot of players and see if there's a better solution.

Tiggida

I learned a long time ago to just play pve for progression, and if i luck into placment that's a bonus. That way you can clear a node here and there throughout the day one at a time. Playing for placement every single event just isn't worth the time and schedule commitment in my opinion. The extra rewards for placement aren't going to make or break you in the long run, so it's not worth it to make the game a job to get them. Especially if chasing them is going to make you put then game down before you can actually enjoy the rewards you worked so hard to get in the first place.

The_A_Train

Something I've been wanting to post, feel free to use it in your suggestion if it works for you:

Instead of listing start times as 6a, 11a, 4p, etc (I'm CST) have them for blocks of time: 6-9a, 10a-1p, 3p-6p, 8p-11p.
The timer would be a personal timer, so you'd have 24 hours to complete your nodes before the next sub drops. It would be a massive QoL upgrade for me personally, but i doubt im the only one thay would benefit. This sticks with their current method without requiring too much modification to anything other than the 'personal' timers and the time that rewards are delivered. It would also increase competition, since players that couldn't previously clear subs optimally would be able to pick a better starting time. 

Having required 5* in placement can't really be avoided without reworking the points and rewards structure. If I can clear cl7, 8 or 9 for the same amount of points and the rewards are very similar then a lot of folks (do) will choose the lower level since it's easier. If they kept the required 5* in placement for just cl8 or 9 then players that can't play up to that level are now an anchor to their alliance since the overall score is going to be significantly lower. This would see the rise of even more 'elite' alliances and stifle progress for the lower tiers. 

fight4thedream

It's unfortunate that you can't find a slice that ends at an optimal time for you.  Long ago I realized PvE wasn't really PvE at all but rather MPQ Racers and it has made such events all the more enjoyable for me. I still get a rush racing against the clock, hoping my rough guesstimate has put me on track for top placement. 

Obviously, there are players that have worked PvE down to a science and know almost exactly how much time it takes to finish each node but I prefer to keep that part an uncertainty to some extent to add to the thrill. My only issue is with tappers. Not knocking them, they are free to do as they like, but it's like running against someone who has taken the liberty of giving themselves a two or sometimes three lap head start. But who knows? Maybe I will have to give it a try sometime, consider it a meditative exercise before the big race.

Of course this mindset totally ignores the actually story line: I am still not certain what exactly happened with the Ghost Rider PvE event lol (I read story lines whenever I feel like taking it easy for an event).

As for restructuring PvE, if the issue is repetitiveness than the solution is to create different challenges for each event. Eliminate placement, introduce difficulty levels (perhaps the ultimate purpose of CLs? One can only hope!) that offers better rewards with the selection of higher difficulty. There are over 100 characters in the game. The goal of a PvE event should be to have players utilize a variety of their characters to achieve specific goals. 

One of the most satisfying and worthwhile experiences I have ever had playing this game was downing Galactus with 1* Venom back when he could one shot anyone as long as there were a sufficient amount of web tiles on the board. I do believe my team consisted of 1* Venom, 1* Spidey and 4* TA Hulk who I specifically leveled just enough at the time to tank damage while my 1*team got to work. Fun times!

We have so many characters that do so many quirky things like produce defense tiles, attack tiles, strike tiles, make black holes, generate AP in a specific color, stun and so on. It would be awesome if they made events that shifted away from simply downing an enemy team to meeting certain conditions. For example, on this node: you must have 10 protect tiles on the board before you can damage the enemy. Now all of a sudden you are going to see people putting Falcon and Magneto into play. 

Or on this node your whole team needs to be invisible to sneak into Dr. Octopus's lab.  Have your team go invisible before his security system detects you! (10 turns) 

Or Nimrod attacks! Have your team survive an attack until help can arrive. (Must use mutant characters. Total health of team must be above 50,000 after 10 turns).

Obviously things would have to be fine tuned for lower rosters that don't have a wide roster. Maybe it would have to be different mode entirely unlocked when you reach a certain Rank

But the potential to add real puzzle elements is already there. However, it has only been utilized for boss type characters like Kaecilius, Apocalypse and Ultron. Hopefully, the development team realizes they can do so much more and add a lot of variety to game play by embracing a puzzle paradigm focused on completing conditions rather than simply reducing an enemy's life points.

It might be a bit much to ask for such events continually like the current PvE schedule but I think once every 2 or 3 months should be a doable goal. Throw in a Gauntlet with better rewards (definitely hope they do a Deadpool Gauntlet a la Deadpool the Gauntlet, a Heroic (restricted roster version) and Boss event every now and then and voila you now have a little more variety with your PvE schedule. And yeah, adding new enemy NPCs would be helpful: Sentinels, Hydra henchmen, A.I.M., The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, and such would also be awesome!

Sorry, I went off on a tangent. These kinds of threads always put my overactive imagination into overdrive!

Anywhoo, I hope you find a way to deal with your burnout! Be it either a change in mindset, a break from PvE or a change in play style.