Really?

sutoLkcalB

Just played against an opponent who played in one turn x creatures with one card - resulting in three about 130/130 creature stacks with haste trample and I do not know what else. I like loops - really - when they are made of rope ...
They do not learn, do they?
Where is the gaming in that. Round one = dead. Thanks. Why should I play at all? May be throwing a dice would be enough.

babar3355

I presume it was omniscience?  That card really needs to get nerfed.  Which sucks because virtually everyone I know spent their entire collection of mana jewels chasing it.

But, yeah, its about as broken as Baral.

Mburn7

babar3355 said:

I presume it was omniscience?  That card really needs to get nerfed.  Which sucks because virtually everyone I know spent their entire collection of mana jewels chasing it.

But, yeah, its about as broken as Baral.

Its only broken with other rare/mythics (especially the ones that fetch supports).  That doesn't mean it doesn't need a nerf, but it is really only infinite under very specific circumstances.  I, for example, probably couldn't make something that OP with it because I am missing most good support fetchers (although I'm sure I could throw something together with enough time)

Baral was so broken because it could go infinite with nothing but commons and uncommons, meaning literally anyone could instantly win with him.  At least this one takes rares and mythics

Mainloop25

Much of its effectiveness for me will diminish once Whir of Invention rotates out of standard. Still, 17 mana to basically cast the next 4 cards in your hand for free is far too powerful for a single card. 

Gunmix25

Mainloop25 said:

Much of its effectiveness for me will diminish once Whir of Invention rotates out of standard. Still, 17 mana to basically cast the next 4 cards in your hand for free is far too powerful for a single card. 

A question: Do you think Whir of invention should be nerfed? I ask because of the many looping builds out there, W.o.I seems to be the main gear in the machine.

I personally have long thought that it should have come with a discard X cards from hand penalty  or something along those lines. Without Whir, these builds are essentially controlled by what is available in hand or by some kind of draw support or spell.

Mainloop25

No because I rarely used Whir before I got Swarm and then Omniscience. The true offender is a single meta-warping support that is overpowered. 

babar3355

Guys, the fact that 17 Mana can cast 4 deploy the gate watches!?!?!?!?!!!!?!!!!!¡!!!!!!!!!¿!  I mean come on.  It's being played in loop decks a lot but that's not the only way to abuse it

Ohboy

No one's gonna tell that poor guy that he just got really unlucky, and turn 1 kills are exceedingly rare for the ai to pull off? 

bk1234

Aren’t Masterpiece cards supposed to be the most powerful cards in the game? 

I think if Omniscience proves anything it’s thst the meh-sterpieces need to be buffed. 

Also — in case you don’t have it, it’s not a perfect card. There are many situations where it isn’t necessary, isn’t the best option or just doesn’t fit. I’ve had it since August and it’s only in one of my blue decks. 

Mainloop25

Ohboy said:

No one's gonna tell that poor guy that he just got really unlucky, and turn 1 kills are exceedingly rare for the ai to pull off? 

You just did.

Also — in case you don’t have it, it’s not a perfect card. There are many situations where it isn’t necessary, isn’t the best option or just doesn’t fit. I’ve had it since August and it’s only in one of my blue decks. 

Although I agree, it's in almost all of my blue decks. The only ones it's not in are the ones that need to cycle to hit objectives.

shteev

Gunmix25 said:

Mainloop25 said:

Much of its effectiveness for me will diminish once Whir of Invention rotates out of standard. Still, 17 mana to basically cast the next 4 cards in your hand for free is far too powerful for a single card. 

A question: Do you think Whir of invention should be nerfed? I ask because of the many looping builds out there, W.o.I seems to be the main gear in the machine.

Whir is probably too powerful... fetching a card, which might be a specific card if you only play 1 support in your deck, AND paying for it, all in one package, is an extremely powerful enabler.

The thing is, it's difficult to tell in the current environment, with it fetching broken cards like Omniscience and New Perspectives. (And let's not forget it's a great way around those 'play<X support' objectives). Did anyone break Pyromancer's Goggles with it, or see it break Pyromancer's Goggles? Because if they did, well, then, yes, it sounds like it's too good.

Omniscience? Yeah, too good.

bken1234 said:

Aren’t Masterpiece cards supposed to be the most powerful cards in the game? 

I think if Omniscience proves anything it’s thst the meh-sterpieces need to be buffed.

Dear god no. Some of us still hold out the hope of eventually playing a balanced game. Masterpieces can be more powerful than commons, but it's a question of how much, isn't it.

sutoLkcalB

Did forget to send this:

I do not think so. 
It was something like
- take the next x spells into your hand they cost nothing
- bring the next x creatures into play
- and these trigger to start the loop anew
Or was it only three times the "x creature" spell card and the creatures pumped up each other.
I can not remember, because as usually I am not interested enough to watch the movie ... it is simply boring.
So honestly I even do not know if the creature stacks were 130/130 or 1000/1000 or what else.

So yes, I was unlucky - the opponent just had these mythic rares played in the beginning.
But I really do not like the concept.
In paper Magic there are formats which define which cards are allowed to be used.
So if people like this sort of gaming which is based heavily on luck (who has his combo in the opening hand; who gets gem cascades); then there should be a separate event for this.

I am with @shteev here. I prefer balanced games too.

Skiglass6

I have this deck saved as my Nahiri TG deck.

HUF->Deploy Pig + other creatures

So yes I would say unlucky. HUF costs 21 mana. Which is a heck of a cascade but obviously doable. But the unluckiest part is the AI draw. HUF and Deploy should be the only 2 spells in deck to optimize. I still contend that “Greg” prioritizes Creatures, Supports then Spells, until proven otherwise. If three Deploys were played only one could be in the hand at the time HUF was played. So if HUF was first card played the the draw would have had to be 3 HUF or 2 HUF 1 Deploy. Some math people can calculate those odds for us. Drawing 3 cards that make up 10% of hand. Or drawing 2 cards that make 10% and 1 card that makes up a separate 10% of hand. 

Coilbox

Bit of a lame question probably, but i havent been able to find out... what card is that one that everyone calls 'Pig'? Oo

babar3355

https://beta.mtgpq.info/cards/DecimatorOfTheProvinces

Decimator of the Provinces

@coilbox

Skiglass6

Not a lame ?  Pig=Decimator of The Provinces. It is a boar like creature. 

EDT: Barbar beat me with a lot better post with info. 

Coilbox

Oehhh...! Thanks guys, i was wondering for a while what kind of overpowered creature it was to earn so much hate from the community

babar3355

shteev said:

bken1234 said:

Aren’t Masterpiece cards supposed to be the most powerful cards in the game? 

I think if Omniscience proves anything it’s thst the meh-sterpieces need to be buffed.

Dear god no. Some of us still hold out the hope of eventually playing a balanced game. Masterpieces can be more powerful than commons, but it's a question of how much, isn't it.

I think you are both right.  Some of the cards feel pretty balanced but very strong (Wrath of God, Slaughter Pact, Dark Ritual, all of the Swords, Platinum Angel, Black Vice, most Moxes, and many others.)  Some seem completely overpowered (Omniscience is really the only one that I perceive as completely broken).  And then some are just unplayable bad (Lightning Greaves, Counterspell, Maelstorm Pulse, and a quite a few others).

You don't have to make Omniscience awful.  Reduce its shield cost.. or have it reduce each cards mana cost by 15 or something. It would still be one of the best masterpeices in the game.

ElvaanStride

Sounds like the biggest issue is lumping Sorceries and Instants into a single category, Spells.

There's a huge balance reason why they were separate in paper MtG, I'm not at all surprised there are so many broken loops in MTGPQ.

bk1234

sutoLkcalB said:

Did forget to send this:

I do not think so. 
It was something like
- take the next x spells into your hand they cost nothing
- bring the next x creatures into play
- and these trigger to start the loop anew
Or was it only three times the "x creature" spell card and the creatures pumped up each other.
I can not remember, because as usually I am not interested enough to watch the movie ... it is simply boring.
So honestly I even do not know if the creature stacks were 130/130 or 1000/1000 or what else.

I think you are talking about my video which is floating around. This is not a competitive deck. It takes time to set up and honestly only has like a 60-70% win rate. 

//Removed Video Due To In-Game Player Name -Brigby

What you see in this video (and it’s less than 2 minutes so not very time consuming to watch) is a very small part of a long setup. If you’d like, I can record the whole thing so you can see the work that goes into getting there. 

Just because something looks very broken doesn’t mean it is. I thought it was pretty broken when I pulled it, but soon found that it has it’s limits. 

In. This deck, for instance, Desert’s Hold, a 4 mana uncommon card can render the entire set up (which usually takes many turns to get to — even with a bunch of cycling cards in the deck) useless — as can pretty much any hexproof solution or lockdown combo. 

You cant play it with cycling cards — if you want to cycle them. Since their cost is reduced to 0 there is nothing to cycle off of. I have actually lost with Nyx and Omni in play together because I couldn’t draw the cards I needed. 

Speaking of Nyx — Nyx / Omni seems pretty broken until you remember that Nyx is bugged and will stop bringing it back. Also this combo is at the whim of what you draw. 

It’s useless in my Saheeli Imminent Doom deck — Baral drives my spells out quicker and for less mana. 

I’ve found many instances where swarm or Mirrorpool + a small useful spell is better for getting out Deploy. 

Since I’ve had it for so long, I’ve had a lot of time to try to “break” it and I sincerely have tried — and I still haven’t come up with the literal unbearable combo. 

wereotter

bken1234 said:

Aren’t Masterpiece cards supposed to be the most powerful cards in the game? 

I think if Omniscience proves anything it’s thst the meh-sterpieces need to be buffed. 

Also — in case you don’t have it, it’s not a perfect card. There are many situations where it isn’t necessary, isn’t the best option or just doesn’t fit. I’ve had it since August and it’s only in one of my blue decks. 

Coming from the perspective of a paper magic player, no. They aren't supposed to be the most powerful cards in the game.

The history of masterpieces is filled with flavorful or popular cards that are solid but not ridiculously powerful. Masterpieces should allow you to gain access to special mechanics or perhaps things that make certain objectives easier, but they shouldn't be so powerful as to make it so that you win a match simply because you put a masterpiece into play.

We can even see the disparity in power level among masterpieces when you compare the power of cards like Sunder verses Counterspell or Ornithopter verses Wurmcoil Engine. Some of the cards that are masterpieces are literally unplayable. They're not the most powerful cards in the game, and if certain cards that are masterpieces are over powered, then they shouldn't just be hand waved because they're masterpieces.