Should strike tiles suffer from diminishing returns in cascades?

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  • WelcomeDeath
    WelcomeDeath Posts: 349 Mover and Shaker
    edited November 2017
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    No
    The entire point of having strike tiles is they can buff every kind of attack you can come up with, including cascades.  You can always match them away, I guess.
     It's a shame there arent any characters that steal/destroy/convert/reduce enemy strike tiles.  Well, I mean there is 3*DD, 5*DD, Jean grey, Elektra, BSS, sam wilson, phoenix, 3*lord, 5*lord, Dr strange, 5* widow, clagger, medusa, she hulk, invisible woman, antman, loki, gwenpool, 3gambit, 5gambit , bullseye, and spiderwoman...but that's it!  Only like 20 characters across three tiers that deal with strikes, definitely need more!  Right?  
  • Ruinate
    Ruinate Posts: 528 Critical Contributor
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    There's something fun about stacking as many different types of hits as possible and running with a strike tile generator.  With DD who essentially doubles your damage when playing this way can reach ridiculous numbers but teams are really limited and you really have to jump through a lot of hoops to see it's max potential.  Unless there's going to be more like DD who can really exploit strike tiles and do it easily, I really don't see a need to change it.  It's kind of the point of strike tiles.
  • Starfury
    Starfury Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
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    Yes
    STOPTHIS said:
    Nope. I'll say the same thing I said about Gambutt, it's better to have a countermeasure than a nerf. Most players don't even care for protect tiles. Maybe those need to be improved. Maybe we need more special tile stealing moves. Or someone who stops or slows down passives.


    There's more than enough way to deal with strike tiles, the problem isn't in fighting against them.

    The problem is that there's nothing remotely as powerful as strike tiles. Even if protect tiles would be buffed tenfold, they still wouldn't help you win the battle.

    And if you start trying to buff attack tiles, you just add even more automatic damage to a game that really doesn't need even more of an "autoplay" mode.

  • Dotproduct
    Dotproduct Posts: 217 Tile Toppler
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    Starfury said:

    And if you start trying to buff attack tiles, you just add even more automatic damage to a game that really doesn't need even more of an "autoplay" mode.

    If you read the complaints on here, almost everyone wants an 'autoplay' mode - to reduce their time of playing if anything.
  • Jarvind
    Jarvind Posts: 1,684 Chairperson of the Boards
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    No
    You can't nerf strikes unless the entire way the game is played changes. Right now everything is speed, speed, speed. Strikes make matches go significantly faster, ergo they are much gudz.

    Until that changes, nerfing strikes is pretty close to nerfing everything.
  • carrion_pigeons
    carrion_pigeons Posts: 942 Critical Contributor
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    Strike tiles are a fundamental piece of the game.  There's no real way to change them without turning the balance of the game completely upside down.  That said, yes, strike tiles are not great design, and probably should have been changed way earlier on.  I have no idea how you could change them at this point, though.

    If we were in a world where stuff like that could be changed easily, I might suggest that strikes have cooldowns attached to them.  For example, you have a strike tile on the board, and you make an attack that is boosted by it: the next thing that happens is it turns gray for a turn or two, and its effect is shut off.  Maybe you could have a number overlaying it like a countdown, except the number changes with every attack, so that it buffs damage you do every third time or something, or even something like three on/three off.  At that point it would make sense for it to be a percent-based damage increase, instead of a flat increase, which would offer some chances for strategic use that don't occur now.
  • ZootSax
    ZootSax Posts: 1,819 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Welcome Death said:
     It's a shame there arent any characters that steal/destroy/convert/reduce enemy strike tiles.  Well, I mean there is 3*DD, 5*DD, Jean grey, Elektra, BSS, sam wilson, phoenix, 3*lord, 5*lord, Dr strange, 5* widow, clagger, medusa, she hulk, invisible woman, antman, loki, gwenpool, 3gambit, 5gambit , bullseye, and spiderwoman...but that's it!  Only like 20 characters across three tiers that deal with strikes, definitely need more!  Right?  
    Why stop there?  The 4* tier  also has Cloak & Dagger.  The 3* tier also has Steve Rogers, Doctor Octopus and Vision..  2*'s have Steve, Moonstone and Bagman, everyone's favorites in that tier and even the 1* tier has Hawkeye and Yelena.  That doesn't even mention the characters with random tile destruction (Juggernaut, 1/2/3 Storm, Squirrel Girl, 3Cyclops, 2* Magneto, Black Bolt, etc, etc, etc), much less that ones with the ability to destroy larger, targeted blocks (Hood, Rogue, TA Hulk, etc).  There's even characters who randomly overwrite (Riri, 3* Magneto, etc), although that's far less likely.  ...and I'm sure I'm forgetting some others.  Regardless, if strikes in cascades are you concern, there's A LOT of ways to remove them.

    As annoying as it is to fall to an AI strike-boosted cascade, when going against a strike tile-heavy opponent, you're already probably using health packs, so what's a few downed characters to boot? 
  • Starfury
    Starfury Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
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    Yes
    Jarvind said:
    You can't nerf strikes unless the entire way the game is played changes. Right now everything is speed, speed, speed. Strikes make matches go significantly faster, ergo they are much gudz.

    Until that changes, nerfing strikes is pretty close to nerfing everything.

    That's the tragedy. The imbalance between strike tiles and everything else makes new characters irrelevant.

    New 4*: Does he fit on a Grocket team? No? Oh well, I'll use him when he's an essential.
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Starfury said:
    Jarvind said:
    You can't nerf strikes unless the entire way the game is played changes. Right now everything is speed, speed, speed. Strikes make matches go significantly faster, ergo they are much gudz.

    Until that changes, nerfing strikes is pretty close to nerfing everything.

    That's the tragedy. The imbalance between strike tiles and everything else makes new characters irrelevant.

    New 4*: Does he fit on a Grocket team? No? Oh well, I'll use him when he's an essential.
    I don't think giving Strike tiles diminishing returns in cascades would have a significant impact on this effect.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,924 Chairperson of the Boards
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    No
    Starfury said:
    Jarvind said:
    You can't nerf strikes unless the entire way the game is played changes. Right now everything is speed, speed, speed. Strikes make matches go significantly faster, ergo they are much gudz.

    Until that changes, nerfing strikes is pretty close to nerfing everything.

    That's the tragedy. The imbalance between strike tiles and everything else makes new characters irrelevant.

    New 4*: Does he fit on a Grocket team? No? Oh well, I'll use him when he's an essential.
    New characters such as Rogue, Vulture, Mockingbird, Coulson, Cloak and Dagger, etc. strongly disagree with this statement.  There are plenty of awesome new characters with unique/cool powers that can create some devastating teams.
  • Jarvind
    Jarvind Posts: 1,684 Chairperson of the Boards
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    No
    Starfury said:
    Jarvind said:
    You can't nerf strikes unless the entire way the game is played changes. Right now everything is speed, speed, speed. Strikes make matches go significantly faster, ergo they are much gudz.

    Until that changes, nerfing strikes is pretty close to nerfing everything.

    That's the tragedy. The imbalance between strike tiles and everything else makes new characters irrelevant.

    STRIKE TILES ARE TOO BIG TO FAIL
  • Starfury
    Starfury Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
    edited November 2017
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    Yes
    Daredevil217 said:
    Starfury said:
    Jarvind said:
    You can't nerf strikes unless the entire way the game is played changes. Right now everything is speed, speed, speed. Strikes make matches go significantly faster, ergo they are much gudz.

    Until that changes, nerfing strikes is pretty close to nerfing everything.

    That's the tragedy. The imbalance between strike tiles and everything else makes new characters irrelevant.

    New 4*: Does he fit on a Grocket team? No? Oh well, I'll use him when he's an essential.
    New characters such as Rogue, Vulture, Mockingbird, Coulson, Cloak and Dagger, etc. strongly disagree with this statement.  There are plenty of awesome new characters with unique/cool powers that can create some devastating teams.
    Yeah, I have them. They're interesting.

    I use Grocket+Gamora because they're way faster and better.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,924 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2017
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    No
    Starfury said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    Starfury said:
    Jarvind said:
    You can't nerf strikes unless the entire way the game is played changes. Right now everything is speed, speed, speed. Strikes make matches go significantly faster, ergo they are much gudz.

    Until that changes, nerfing strikes is pretty close to nerfing everything.

    That's the tragedy. The imbalance between strike tiles and everything else makes new characters irrelevant.

    New 4*: Does he fit on a Grocket team? No? Oh well, I'll use him when he's an essential.
    New characters such as Rogue, Vulture, Mockingbird, Coulson, Cloak and Dagger, etc. strongly disagree with this statement.  There are plenty of awesome new characters with unique/cool powers that can create some devastating teams.
    Yeah, I have them. They're interesting.

    I use Grocket+Gamora because they're way faster and better.
    Cool thing about PVP is it is the one game mode that no longer relies on speed.  So you can try new character combos.  I legit used 2* Captain Marvel to feed team-up AP to boosted Cyclops.  Peggy/Vulture/3* Thor has been my go-to team for the Thor LR's after I hit seeds, 3* Gambit/Patch has been my most used team since Gambit has been introduced.  There are TONS of characters in the game at your disposal.  And half the game no longer punishes you for not using the fastest characters.  If you choose to only use two toons + featured, that is as much on you as it is on game design.  They shouldn't have to nerf strikes to give you a reason to play other characters when you could do it now.  PVE is a different beast, but I've heard that Grocket is much less effective against higher level CL9 enemies.  I wouldn't know as I don't play there.  In 8, where I play, Grocket only sees the trivial nodes.  I find boosted 4's to be much faster usually.
  • Starfury
    Starfury Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
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    Yes
    Trying out new teams so the 50% more matches in PvP take even more time to complete is the last thing on my agenda.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,924 Chairperson of the Boards
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    No
    Starfury said:
    Trying out new teams so the 50% more matches in PvP take even more time to complete is the last thing on my agenda.
    Again- personal choice.

    You want the developers to nerf strikes so you have more of a reason to play a wider variety of characters (which you can do now), yet you don't use a wider variety of characters because you appreciate the speed that strikes afford you?

    Super confused, man.
  • Starfury
    Starfury Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
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    Yes
    Yeah, wanting a balanced game where you don't **** yourself by not jumping on the strike tile bandwagon. 
    Makes no sense at all.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,924 Chairperson of the Boards
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    No
    Starfury said:
    Yeah, wanting a balanced game where you don't tinykitty yourself by not jumping on the strike tile bandwagon. 
    Makes no sense at all.

    I don’t know how else to say this, but I’ll try. There are fallacies in your argument. Mainly that you’ll screw yourself if you don’t use Grocket all the time (not true in PVP) and that they are always the fastest option (this is only really true for trivial nodes and low clearance level).

    You can choose not to use Rocket and Groot in PVP with no real drawback other than matches take longer.  Speed isn’t the end all there like it is in PVE.  So you're not “screwing yourself” by playing a fun team, in fact you might get some easier retaliations that you can climb off of.

    You say you refuse to do that and instead use the same team over and over because you appreciate their speed, yet want them nerfed all the same.

    So yes I’m confused.
  • Starfury
    Starfury Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
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    Yes
    The game has changed from a daily schedule of ~60 matches per day for progression to around 80 matches.

    Speed is king because Earth's rotation has not yet adopted to the requirements of D3.
  • madsalad
    madsalad Posts: 815 Critical Contributor
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    No
    PUHLEASE. Playing this game already takes too long every day and you want to remove ways to do damage? NO. It's not like Defense tiles to less protecting during a cascade.

    I actually want them to remove the nerf to cascades. Let's get these games done quicker!
  • GuntherBlobel
    GuntherBlobel Posts: 987 Critical Contributor
    edited November 2017
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    Yes
    I retract my “yes” vote. The OPs argument made perfect sense to me until I remembered protect tiles. They are mechanistically reciprocal to stike tiles, so there’s no imbalance here.

    The Devs have simply chosen to create characters with powerful strike tiles over protect tiles.

    Try 4* Capt. Marvel + 4* Deadpool + 4* Thing: you will see that protect tile passives are a viable counter. It’s not quick though.

    I hope we will see more high powered protect tiles now that the Devs have discovered the value or “flipping” them to strike tiles later.

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