No QB? Then tweak some that TG

Furordraco

So i am not sure QB will be brought back, maybe yes with new development team but i dont want to get my hopes up. There was a thread about tweaking TG but its closed since its a little old.
So here i open this to pour in some ideas and tweaks from everybody on the forum, so to make TG have some more sense.

1)Those 100 runes after progression is done is just way too low...if 300 is too much for you at least give us 200! Make us want to play TG more!
2)I agree that TG should be relaxing and to cut off from the stress of pvp events. But this is basically a daily "Play 4 games" for most of us with really no incentive to sometimes even do the 4 games.
3)As a stress free environment funny enough the hardest decks to beat, i find here in TG.

I would have more, but i prefer that all of us add a bit more to this thread, so that maybe our voices will be heard up there. @Brigby our hope is on you

Cheerio folks!

Gilesclone

TG is the only place people can let their hair down. Every other event has restrictions and secondaries. 

Phillmoore

Needs more incentives to play more than 4 games 

Steeme

Phillmoore said:

Needs more incentives to play more than 4 games 

Needs more incentive to play more than 0 games.

Furordraco

Steeme said:

Phillmoore said:

Needs more incentives to play more than 4 games 

Needs more incentive to play more than 0 games.

My thoughts exactly. Yes @Gilesclone but I still sweat vs some tg decks since they're legacy. Shouldn't sweat in a training ground

Mainloop25

Steeme said:

Phillmoore said:

Needs more incentives to play more than 4 games 

Needs more incentive to play more than 0 games.

15 crystals for 4 games is the best deal around. If you are in the platinum and make it through Totp progression, your net cost for 20 jewels is 15 crystals. Pretty good if you ask me. 

Doomstat

I agree with mainloop25. I use to ignore TotP because I originally thought it was a waste, but paying 15 crystals for a pack and 20 jewels is not a bad deal at all. I just need to get a better strategy to win my red matches.

Kinesia

Since the older thread was closed I'll repaste this here...

I would like training grounds and the "free boosters" integrated. Many games make you play to get your free stuff and it's a better experience than just logging in, getting a card and leaving. Encouraging people to just play is what the company should be wanting, logging in isn't enough.

But some games make you _win_, that punishes weaker players, just playing is what we want people to do. If you quit a game you get nothing though. (And yes, that brings up trolling and things, but still...)

This is what I wrote before
----------------------------

What I want is something like:

5 coloured nodes and a blank (locked) one in the middle.

The planeswalkers you pick are locked, you can change your deck but not the walker, you can't use anyone twice.

This by itself would fix a lot of annoyances.

Matching needs to be done by a ranking system but _also_ give a slight nod to the level of your walker. If I am testing my level 20 Sorin I shouldn't _only_ be playing against the people of my rank who don't happen to be testing something lower that day. I don't know how to balance it, but it's needed.

The rewards for each of these nodes should be a random standard card _replacing_ the "1 every two hours" completely, get rid of that. Plus a bunch of runes.

Only when you have one all the outer nodes does the middle one unlock and you can use anyone you want that you havent already used.

The reward for this node is the current gold crystals but also a _legacy_ 3 pack of cards, like the free pack used to be.

You can then replay any of the nodes later just for runes. This lets you test a particular deck or walker over and over.

If you want some kind of ranking reward thing you could add this onto the unlockable centre node, only accessible after you've done the rest. But I think the rewards should be very minimal if it is grindable. Time considerations matter a lot.

Anyway... I would prefer this type of arrangement then the current free card system and it would encourage people to play more instead of just login.

Gunmix25

Furordraco said:

So i am not sure QB will be brought back, maybe yes with new development team but i dont want to get my hopes up. There was a thread about tweaking TG but its closed since its a little old.
So here i open this to pour in some ideas and tweaks from everybody on the forum, so to make TG have some more sense.

1)Those 100 runes after progression is done is just way too low...if 300 is too much for you at least give us 200! Make us want to play TG more!
2)I agree that TG should be relaxing and to cut off from the stress of pvp events. But this is basically a daily "Play 4 games" for most of us with really no incentive to sometimes even do the 4 games.
3)As a stress free environment funny enough the hardest decks to beat, i find here in TG.

I would have more, but i prefer that all of us add a bit more to this thread, so that maybe our voices will be heard up there. @Brigby our hope is on you

Cheerio folks!

A few points I think need to be made.

1. TG is and should be exactly that, a training ground for testing deck builds. The rune progression is just fine the way it is and for what it is for. It is not a competitive environment per se and it shouldn't be used for rune farming, play other events if you want runes, the pay outs are higher anyways.

2. If you want to play without stress, why do you need an incentive to do so? It's like saying I want to be able to sleep uninterrupted but I want some incentive to do so, like 5 pots for fresh coffee in the morning.

3. um, you did play QB right? There were far more finely tuned decks in there than TG. Not to mention that these same builds were build for speed and efficiency.  Granted there have been some tough builds faced in TG but since the AI rarely plays them right, I rarely if ever lose.

That said, if anyone is stressed playing TG is the new players. Since TG is primed for legacy they almost don't have a prayer in testing out the effectiveness of a build when facing Koth and his slew of legacy mythics. I standard TG toggle should be built into TG to allow newer players and veteran players to test out standard builds against other standard builds for pre-event effectiveness.

I do believe that some form of a free for all event without nodes could be instituted and there should be some decent incentives twice a week. but two kinds of this event.

M to Tues: Free for all, unrestricted. Prizes are based on random sets prior event (300 runes for win, 50 loss per match)

1-5: a legacy rare and 20 jewels

6-25: a legacy rare and 10 jewels

26-50: a legacy rare and 5 jewels

51-100: a legacy rare

101-250: legacy booster

251-500: 3 card booster

501-up: 500 runes

Weds to Thurs: Free for all "Iron-Strategist." (completely made up phrase for an example) 

Like Iron Chef, unrestricted with one fun randomly revealed adaptation rule(s?). (300 runes for win, 50 loss per match)

For example of randomized adaptations: no mythics, no rares, creatures must have flying, or no flying creatures. Disabling effects are disabled, no cycling, All creatures gain deathtouch in round 5, All supports are destroyed every 4th round (4,8,12,16 and so on), first 1 card is free to cast every third round (3,6,9,12,15 so on.), Landfalls deal 10pts of damage. After round 5 players begin drawing 1 extra card per creature/support in play. These are among some of the examples players I think can feel challenged but can play as much and as fast as they can. I also think prizes could be like the following.

 

1-5: a legacy mythic, rare and 20 jewels

6-25: a legacy rare and 15 jewels

26-50: a legacy rare and 5 jewels

51-100: a legacy rare

101-250: legacy booster

251-500: 3 card booster

501-up: 500 runes

anyways, that is my thought on the matter

Steeme

Mainloop25 said:

Steeme said:

Phillmoore said:

Needs more incentives to play more than 4 games 

Needs more incentive to play more than 0 games.

15 crystals for 4 games is the best deal around. If you are in the platinum and make it through Totp progression, your net cost for 20 jewels is 15 crystals. Pretty good if you ask me. 

15 minutes of overtime nets me a whole ton more than 15 crystals.

My point is that TG is mind-numbingly boring facing the same rage decks from players who want the 15 crystals as quickly as possible.  I learn nothing from playing TG and I don't enjoy it.

Make it more interesting, I'll consider playing it.  Until then I'll continue maximizing OT instead.  I literally dial back into work after I get home instead of playing MTG.

Gunmix25

Steeme said:

My point is that TG is mind-numbingly boring facing the same rage decks from players who want the 15 crystals as quickly as possible.  I learn nothing from playing TG and I don't enjoy it.

I've seen the same case be made for QB. Same high speed and high OP rage builds over and over and over and over. I learned nothing beyond that and didn't enjoy it either.

 I found one build that had enough speed and power to hold up in QB... lo and behold it had piggy, which I luckily got from the 3 card booster. I felt dirty that I reduced myself to copying the same kind of approach that other high placers used, but what's a player to do, no? Either join the pack or get left behind.

Anyways, I ended using just that build for months because nothing else I collected could even touch those monstrous legacy builds. When standard came out as did TG, it was a breath of fresh air... variation; for awhile. Now we see a ton of Koth builds that use the rage decks. Boring? yes. But I can still play without sacrificing a rank, if you will. If I lose? oh well. If I win, good for me. I learn from my builds there but only in how effective they hold up to legacy mechanics and not standard. 

Ohboy

For what it's worth I used to collect stats and tweak my QB deck from week to week to try to improve it.

It was a personal mini game for me. 

Mainloop25

Steeme said:

Mainloop25 said:

Steeme said:

Phillmoore said:

Needs more incentives to play more than 4 games 

Needs more incentive to play more than 0 games.

15 crystals for 4 games is the best deal around. If you are in the platinum and make it through Totp progression, your net cost for 20 jewels is 15 crystals. Pretty good if you ask me. 

15 minutes of overtime nets me a whole ton more than 15 crystals.

My point is that TG is mind-numbingly boring facing the same rage decks from players who want the 15 crystals as quickly as possible.  I learn nothing from playing TG and I don't enjoy it.

Make it more interesting, I'll consider playing it.  Until then I'll continue maximizing OT instead.  I literally dial back into work after I get home instead of playing MTG.

Please... Let's not bring real life into it! Obviously there are better things to do with our life than playing this game. I was just talking in terms of in-game currency for F2P players. If you would rather spend the money on crystals, great. People like you are probably what's keeping the game afloat, until there is something worth spending money on again. 

Steeme

Gunmix25 said:

Steeme said:

My point is that TG is mind-numbingly boring facing the same rage decks from players who want the 15 crystals as quickly as possible.  I learn nothing from playing TG and I don't enjoy it.

I've seen the same case be made for QB. Same high speed and high OP rage builds over and over and over and over. I learned nothing beyond that and didn't enjoy it either.

QB had one single purpose for me:  Leveling up new PW's.  The 300 runes per win made it worthwhile.  I would even play with the new PW while leveling.  That made it actually interesting and it was a learning process at the same time.

Ohboy said:

For what it's worth I used to collect stats and tweak my QB deck from week to week to try to improve it.

It was a personal mini game for me. 

My personal mini-game right now is to use different PW's and different decks in the ROTGP event.  I actually dropped a couple optionals yesterday on some of the "easy" nodes and it woke me up.

Mainloop25 said:

Please... Let's not bring real life into it! Obviously there are better things to do with our life than playing this game. I was just talking in terms of in-game currency for F2P players. If you would rather spend the money on crystals, great. People like you are probably what's keeping the game afloat, until there is something worth spending money on again. 

But we must bring real life into the equation, because this game is competing with it.

The main purpose of MTG is "entertainment".  I actually have a very large budget for entertainment because it's all I have other than work and weightlifting.  If, after already working for 11 hours in the day, I feel like working an extra hour instead of playing MTG, then this game is not fulfilling what is supposed to be its core purpose.

Kinesia

And this game and the way it fits into real life is actually a _plus_. This game has more potential to fit into real life than many others.

I know a lot of people with kids, with jobs, with other stuff going on, and they can play _this_ ahead of other games because they can schedule the playing in little bits and pieces, they can even walk away mid game and come back. You simply can't do that with many things.

How this interacts with real life is a point in this games _favour_ and is why some of us have been pointing out the way time works with events because it actually _does_ change how much/well some of us can play. Too much time pressure can potentially _removes_ the one and only bonus this game has that makes it playable at all.

luckyvulpi

The fact that training grounds is the best return on investment in the game and the fact that people don't feel incentivised to play that should say more about the amount of rewards being given out than anything else.

15 cystals doesnt feel rewarding to me since I have the planeswalkers I want and grinding 20 days for a dupe rare and air isn't worth it to me.  I don't know the exact reason others don't feel the need to play training grounds, but if training grounds gives the best rewards per time in the game and people don't even feel the need to play that, then maybe the amount of rewards given out doesn't make it worth it to play.

Mainloop25

@Steeme or it just means you really like your job

@luckyvulpi im not even saying TG is that much fun. It's just a low-stakes way to test decks if you need it. That they give us crystals at all is the only reason I play it. Logging in daily to collect my reward isn't necessarily fun in of itself, but I still do it because it's free stuff for almost no time investment. I would also like to see QB come back because it was more fun than TG, but I wouldn't want to see QB replace TG, but merely be a supplement to everything else we get to play.