Fixing broken cards? Yea, nay. meh?

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  • octal9
    octal9 Posts: 593 Critical Contributor
    edited October 2017
    Kinesia said:
    Instead of worrying about the upper end abusive cards, I think it's more important to fix the _bad_ not used cards first.
    You said a lot of other good things in this post, but like madwren above, I think this is a key takeaway.

    Does anybody know what Minotaur Sureshot does? Let alone USED it?

    What about Scribe of the Mindful? Frontline Devastator? Bone Picker? (I didn't even know this card exists and I have 8 of them)

    All of these have an issue: they're too tinykitty expensive for the minimal you get out of them. When you spend that much mana on a card, you better be getting something out of it.

    Otherwise they'll drop a Noxious Gearhulk on you for 3 additional mana, gain 10 life, remove all your hard work, and have a blocking 8/8 with menace to boot.
  • Kinesia
    Kinesia Posts: 1,621 Chairperson of the Boards
    YES!!!!! This would add balance to the present legacy/standard format
    People _always_ complain disproportionately about nerfs, no matter what. I've read some interesting stuff from game developers about it.

    They said it's actually better for them if they introduce slightly weaker things and buff them later,. If you are trying to protect your "good will" you actually have to do it that way.

    But if things are severely broken you just have to bite the bullet and cut off the infected limb, they will scream but the game gets to live.


    But that's why I'm also suggesting boosting the currently useless cards, it's a reasonably safe move as long as it's done even slightly carefully. There will be far more good will generated and very little bad.
  • wickedwitch74
    wickedwitch74 Posts: 267 Mover and Shaker
    One line which stuck out to me in the recently release Q&A Session with the Octagon folks was this:

    "and which existing cards need to be re-balanced in light of the new card designs released by WOTC."

    So... that sounds to me like they plan on rebalancing existing cards. 
  • madwren
    madwren Posts: 2,259 Chairperson of the Boards
    yes and no, Maybe two, three or five cards but leave the rest alone.
    In a way, that makes sense. If they have a vision for the direction they want to take the game, and existing cards are not allowing that to happen (whether by being too powerful or even, gods forbid, not powerful enough), then some rebalancing would have to occur.  
  • majincob
    majincob Posts: 732 Critical Contributor
    Meh .... Don't care. It's MTGPQ... ya win some and you lose some. A change will just give it some short-lived freshness but that's about it.
    Man, bone picker would be a playable card if it costed 7-9. Just need a support to give it defender/berserker.
  • wereotter
    wereotter Posts: 2,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    YES!!!!! This would add balance to the present legacy/standard format
    Bone Picker would pair well with From Beyond. Too bad it's currently impossible to play the two together... and that they'd be overrun by other OP legacy cards. 
  • Ohboy
    Ohboy Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    YES!!!!! This would add balance to the present legacy/standard format
    Riddleform bone picker avatar of Woe
  • Sirchombli
    Sirchombli Posts: 322 Mover and Shaker
    shteev said:

    True, but I feel like in that case, D3 should make it explicitly clear that F2P players are choosing to lose.

    Do they lose because they're f2p, though? I didn't lose because I didn't buy any cards during SOI or BFZ. I'm all for a balanced game, but that was the point of the limited format. What limited legal cards are really oppressive? I can think of 2 and one of them nobody really has. I can think of a lot of cards that I don't like to face, but that's just how good cards work. Everybody loves hixus until that one that ends up in that weird corner and you can't get support removal to save your life. I most likely wouldn't even be affected by a nerf. I've payed for 4 cards in a year and I don't think any of them are on the list of boogey men. I'd just rather they focus on new cards and balancing mechanics. Let the crazy cards in legacy be. They don't even come up that much. 
  • Furordraco
    Furordraco Posts: 142 Tile Toppler
    yes and no, Maybe two, three or five cards but leave the rest alone.
    A couple of cards would need to be fixed...Olivia is a nice example. When seasons past was nerfed I lost my ramp, but I admit it had to be done. Twas op so a Nerf made sense. So yes Nerf some but not all
  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
    I got Pull from Tomorrow yesterday.

    I very much feel like we should be living in a world where that card is extremely undercosted for 2 mana.
  • Mainloop25
    Mainloop25 Posts: 1,959 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2017
    YES!!!!! This would add balance to the present legacy/standard format

    I very much feel like we should be living in a world where that card is extremely undercosted for 2 mana.

    Especially when Trial of Knowledge costs 11 mana to draw 3 cards. 
  • Kinesia
    Kinesia Posts: 1,621 Chairperson of the Boards
    YES!!!!! This would add balance to the present legacy/standard format
    Mainloop25 said:

    I very much feel like we should be living in a world where that card is extremely undercosted for 2 mana.

    Especially when Trial of Knowledge costs 11 mana to draw 3 cards. 
    The trials are meant be special, not only usable but _reusable_ when you use the cartouches to get them back. Many of them are costed extremely badly for that and make very little sense. They need to looked at enmasse as an entire class of card so _all_ trial/cartouche combinations make at least vague sense. Costing is absolutely the worst part though. The Red one is absolutely useless.

  • arNero
    arNero Posts: 358 Mover and Shaker
    YES!!!!! This would add balance to the present legacy/standard format
    Among the biggest issue of the broken cards are infinite combos. Baral so far has been the only one getting nerfed as far as I remember.

    Things like Omniscience and Seasons Past (and a few more I forgot the names) are among the issues as well, going infinite off a cascade with you not being able to stop it.
  • Mainloop25
    Mainloop25 Posts: 1,959 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2017
    YES!!!!! This would add balance to the present legacy/standard format
    You can throw Swarm Intelligence in there.

    If Omniscience instead reduced your casting cost of cards by something like -10, it would still be an amazing card that would be worth chasing without being the auto-win it is right now. 
  • Sarahschmara
    Sarahschmara Posts: 554 Critical Contributor
    Meh .... Don't care. It's MTGPQ... ya win some and you lose some. A change will just give it some short-lived freshness but that's about it.
    Seasons past was actually nerfed. The problem specifically with original Baral is that it was totally broken and was sold for money despite many well-written warnings from veteran players about exactly how broken he was. They let people play with their new toy for a couple of weeks and then “fixed” it. We all knew it needed to be changed and we predicted the disaster it would be both before AND after the change. It was a blatant money grab and it created a lot of bad feelings that could’ve been avoided with a little foresight... or, you know, listening to the experts. 

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