Limited Format Parameters

bk1234

I was involved in a great discussion today about what will happen to Limited Format when Ixalan hits and think this is a wonderful place to expand that discussion and hear the thoughts of the masses:

One of the things we realized was there was never any definition of what constitutes Limited Format in PQ -- though it has only been presented in the format we now see, there is no official word that limited format is Origins, the immediate past set and the current sets. In other words, limited format in PQ is not the same as Standard format in paper. By definition, limited format could be whatever the event dictates. Tomorrow we could see EC in limited format with Origins, SOI and EMN and it will still be Limited Format. 

My 2 cents:

1. Limited format was introduced to level the playing field -- and it has effectively done this.

2. Current Limited format differs from paper Standard format in the fact that paper with AKH and HOU does not include a base set like Origins and does include SOI and EMN.

3. These two sets were excluded from PQ (again all my opinion) because the power creep was so great that it wouldn't allow limited format to serve it's purpose. Origins was included because it is the base of PQ no matter what the current set is. 

4. Since the outcry over the SOI power creep, new sets have been designed with better balance that allows even the newest players to be competitive and remain engaged in the game -- while offering diversity to veteran players. 

With these things in mind, I hope that a true Standard Format will be defined that aligns more with Paper going forward -- while I believe the addition or Origins is necessary based on the design of the game, I think that KLD and AER should remain in an actual Standard format until DOM is released next year -- likewise when the 2019 Core Set comes out, it should replace Origins as the base set. 

BUT I'd also like to see the term "Limited Format" used for events that have set specific parameters outside of a Standard Format, AND I'd like to continue to see open format ('Legacy") type events. 

Thoughts?

Doomstat

I would embrace a "Block" format for events. If they could figure out a way to cycle the Legacy events between the sets they came from and legacy, I think more people would be willing to purchase the older packs.

I enjoy building Standard decks more than legacy because it gives me restraints. This ensures I'm not playing Olivia at every chance, and helps me try to use different cards/strategies for each node to better myself.

bk1234

Another note on this is a lot of people are not buying the Kaladesh Elite pack because they think it’s going to rotate out in a month. Some clarification would be nice because there’s some good stuff in there. 

Sirchombli

I'd like the idea of 3 blocks plus the core set moving forward. Obviously SOI block had some rude stuff in it, but sets in this game aren't very big. If the KLD block rotates, we're going to have a drastically depleted card pool. That is how it works in paper, but paper sets have twice as many cards in them. I'm fine with it either way, I just don't want to enter into an era where all we face is do nothing cycling decks. There are a lot now, but getting rid of KLD would really murder options for a while. It'll be fun either way. 

Ohboy

I'm all for murdering options.

New limits, new metas.

Thésée

bken1234 said:

With these things in mind, I hope that a true Standard Format will be defined that aligns more with Paper going forward -- while I believe the addition or Origins is necessary based on the design of the game, I think that KLD and AER should remain in an actual Standard format until DOM is released next year -- likewise when the 2019 Core Set comes out, it should replace Origins as the base set. 

Personnaly I would agree with @Ohboy (if it's what you meant talking about murdering options) that KLD / AER should rotate out. We all enjoyed the deckbuilding sessions when Standard was introduced. New meta is always a cool thing (even if life will be really sad for me without Rishkar's Expertise). 

But anyway I'm pretty sure the decision has already been made. And it would be great to have some infos about it. 

tfg76

We should definitely have information about this, but in case it isn´t even decided, I would note that there´s another difference between KLD and newer sets, and the older ones: availability. Before KLD, the cost of booster packs and the prizes awarded made the cards (especially mythics) much more available than now. Even now, it´s totally reasonable to get hold of KLD/AER rares by playing events, which means that keeping it around isn´t such a big deal. 

That being said, I agree with Ohboy that all kinds of restrictions can make the events more exciting and enjoyable. I´d love to see pauper, block events, restrictions on spells/supports/creatures/creature types etc etc.

Thésée

About game balance : KLD / AER has cards like nerfed Baral or Rishkar's Expertise. AKH block has cycling which is ridiculously overpowered and makes every boss battle a cakewalk and also broken cards like Omniscience and Swarm.
Not sure there is really an improvement since SOI 

(but that was off topic) 

wereotter

I think eventually the formats in Puzzle Quest can align to what is legal in paper formats, but now is not that time. The Kaladesh block exists in a strange i between level of power between Innistrad and Amonkhet and if they're trying to pull back on the power creep, it has to face the axe.

The power level of cards like Metalwork Colossus (especially is treasures become supports like clues did) and Angel of Invention are insane in the current card environment, not to mention Heart of Koran and Boomship, and while energy decks aren't as rampant as they once were, the power potential there is a bit much too.

However, given the lack of opportunity to get cards from Hour of Devestation for as long as it was, I could concede to keeping Kaladesh legal until Rivals of Ixalan then dropping both sets of that block just so people have cards to play with. 

Kinesia

There are possibly purely practical _technical_ things to consider...

I'm on iOS (don't know if Android is similar) and sometimes the game starts slowing down dramatically while animating things, this is often the prelude to a complete crash. It has _very_ rarely crashed on me prior to this behaviour.

This slow down behaviour clearly happens much more often when the board is full of Energy and/or Supports.

The end PvE bosses in Kaladesh, like Tezz2 make this very visible.

So leaving Kaladesh in and then introducing "Treasure" supports as well (If that is how it's done) may lead to even further performance problems and crashes (But people may not realise why it's happening and connect it with these things, they may think it's specific cards or the like, but it's not.)

I think Kaladesh should phase out just from wanting a more stable App for now.
These problems can be fixed in the background over time but I don't want Ixalan delayed because there are technical problems with playing things together that are going to take far too long to narrow down and get rid of.

TheDragonHermit

Kinesia said:

There are possibly purely practical _technical_ things to consider...

I'm on iOS (don't know if Android is similar) and sometimes the game starts slowing down dramatically while animating things, this is often the prelude to a complete crash. It has _very_ rarely crashed on me prior to this behaviour.

This slow down behaviour clearly happens much more often when the board is full of Energy and/or Supports.

The end PvE bosses in Kaladesh, like Tezz2 make this very visible.

So leaving Kaladesh in and then introducing "Treasure" supports as well (If that is how it's done) may lead to even further performance problems and crashes (But people may not realise why it's happening and connect it with these things, they may think it's specific cards or the like, but it's not.)

I think Kaladesh should phase out just from wanting a more stable App for now.
These problems can be fixed in the background over time but I don't want Ixalan delayed because there are technical problems with playing things together that are going to take far too long to narrow down and get rid of.

One of my favorite things about my minefield Tezz 2 deck, asside from watching the AI commit suicide, is watching the game struggle to deal with all the nonsense on the field. So, yeah, Android has the support clustertinykitty slowdown too.

blacklotus

i face the same problem with once too many supports/type of supports hit the board. once the energems, servos and embalm supports start to fill up the board, a crash feels imminent. running a iphone6s+ here. 

[Deleted User]

I only skimmed this, but yes clarification would be most appreciated on whats going to happen going forward. People like to make informed decisions, I feel.

On another note, I also thought it would be nice to see more formats than "standard" and "limited" because going forward... "limited" is going to get really big, really fast with huge power creep issues I think.