PvP now has 3 not-always-compatible goals

Orion

Before, there was only 1 goal - get as many points as you could.  Hit 1200 in progression?  Great!  That probably got you a solid T10 or T25 ranking.  Sure, you could try for T5 and the 4* covers, but those spots are for the whales unless you were in a completely dry or brand-new bracket.  Those points added to your season total and maybe got you a 10-pack at the season's end.

But now you have 3 different goals to achieve in PvP:

1) Wins - to try to get enough wins, you're queuing up the easiest teams to beat, even if they're worth low points.  But that leaves you open to big retals if they can handle your A-team.  Or maybe you put a weak team out there and farm the retals.  But that still means you're getting hit and losing points.  PvP vets already know that the old method of climbing late in PvP leaves you far short of the 40 wins you need for max progression.

2) T10 placement - Since the 15 CP for a T10 placement is the main way for a 4* -> 5* transitioner to progress, they have to find a way to get one of those T10 spots.  So that means dropping down to a lower CL or finding a different slice that doesn't score as high.  Cooperation in S3 and S4 will get you a lot of points, but it won't get you 15 CP since your 1200 score is barely good for T25.  So that means spreading out and not earning those 1800+ score in S4, but getting T10 with 1000 in S5.

3) Season score - Wins will get you all of the season progression rewards, but score still counts for placement and the Heroic 10-packs at the end of a season.  Also for the T100 Alliance Legendary Token.  But if you went to a lower scoring slice for better placement, now your season score will suffer.  Alliances that were easy T100 finishers before might find themselves out in the cold in this new system if the members are chasing wins instead of points.

The whales will still be able to hit all 3 goals.  5* players like myself can probably only hit 2 of those 3 goals.  I'm sure my season score will suffer under this new system, since chasing the 15 CP each event is more important to me than a 10-pack at the end.  Most people will probably be able to hit the first goal, but not the other 2.  It just seems like PvP got 3 times harder than before since now you have to chase wins, points, and placement, instead of just points before.

corytutor

Its a convoluted bloodbath

Lucifier

@Orion

I think better wait till the end of season to see how things will be, as you already said players now may spread out for T10 placements, that's mean will be more points in s2, or s5 than before, and logically the other slices their points will be less, also the other reason they may spread to lower CL.

Orion said:

So that means spreading out and not earning those 1800+ score in S4, but getting T10 with 1000 in S5.

Also for the T100 Alliance Legendary Token. 

I don't know how much usually needed for the T100 season individual rewards, but I am certain 1000 points / pvp is more than enough for T100 season alliance rewards.
anyway now PVP have new system for progression, as you said many will spreed out, many maybe will score less points in pvp (maybe they will score more, if they play at least 40 wins), but I think the points needed for T100 or others might be different for this season, so maybe you will score less and end up the same rank as you ended up last time (also maybe not).

P.S. I am a 3* land player and I hit 700+ points in s5 without hoping (but joining late) in the old pvp system.

corytutor

Lolol 

I wouldnt be surprised to see an overall decline in points. 

xKOBALTx

Agree with Orion here. I'm giving this system the old college try, but man...

I mean, I'm playing in a so-called "dry shard" and have already got to 720 points in 14 wins. I haven't even earned the CP yet! Realistically, I'm going to get that CP and have a score that prior would've netted a 3* cover and still be a dozen wins away from actually getting that cover. I really do feel like I'm working on completely separate goals now.

The way it's going I'm going to have to choose one style of PvP or another (progression, placement, or quit), because it seems I can't work on all goals at once without funds (in additional time or money/HP) to go the front-running path. That's just absurd to me when I consider where I'm at in the game.

Jarvind

aesthetocyst said:

"Players like choices!"

I look forward to the day we get a PvE with a morality system where we can make "hero" or "villain" choices which don't actually affect the outcome in any way.

DFiPL

Disagree that there was 'only one goal.' Many of us popped in to hit 575 for the CP, earn enough season points for the 10-pack, and then maybe chase the 4* cover in SHIELD Sim.

What I'm finding is that playing the way I always have got me to the cover at 40 wins; without shielding, I'm probably going to end up with an event score close to what I would have had anyway, albeit at SCL7 instead of SCL6, so my placement will probably change.

But, I mean, whatever? I'm getting a 4* cover. That does way more for me than the difference between a 3* or a 2* in placement, and my play hasn't changed a whit (yet).

Now, the highest of the high-end players, yeah. I can totally see where this system changes things for them and not necessarily for the better.

But us upper-middle-class folk, what's changed is progression attainability. Not much of anything else.

Zappa

It just feels boring sludging through matches. Previously, there was some moderate excitement speeding through matches accumulating points before trying to shield in the mid 800s and then jump to 900 and the cover. Now I have to play twice as long, every single day, and I count matches instead of points. Instead of having a day off from pvp every other day, it is PVP and PVE every day. 

While it might seem great and shiny to everyone who couldnt get to 900 before, good luck maintaining this play rate over multiple seasons.

fanghoul

The downside Orion seems to be trying to present is that now... all the rewards won't flow to one group of players. Instead some will go to different people depending on their preferred goals / play style.

I think I can live with that.

Quebbster

I'm going to decide from event to event what I am most after at the moment. Right now I obviously want Nightcrawler covers, so I'll join Category-5 late and try to get good placement that way, not worrying about missed placement rewards. In The Devil You Know I want the progression cover, so that one I'll join early to give room to get more wins.

Rod5

fanghoul said:

The downside Orion seems to be trying to present is that now... all the rewards won't flow to one group of players. Instead some will go to different people depending on their preferred goals / play style.

I think I can live with that.

Thank you for your smugness.

Thing is, when you do build your roster to a stronger level and you’re competing against us, you’ll see how short-sighted it is, and how unenjoyable it is to fight huge teams for 40 fights.

in the meantime we’ll drop CLs to get CPs when we don’t want the 4* and deny people there all the other placement rewards as well.

corytutor

I sure did. Went scl 5 got t2

Orion

corytutor said:

I sure did. Went scl 5 got t2

Nice. A 5* player in SCL5. Is PvP working as you intended, devs?  Because it sure seems even more screwed up to me.

corytutor

Cp is more valuable to me than covers

Dragon_Nexus

Score is something I've found I have to sacrifice.
I got up to 1000 last night with 25 wins. So to get 40 wins without having to attack the same top 10 guys over and over I allowed my score to drop a ton overnight so I'd have more poeple to fight today.

I have to deliberately lose in order to get enough wins.

Hadronic

Dragon_Nexus said:

Score is something I've found I have to sacrifice.
I got up to 1000 last night with 25 wins. So to get 40 wins without having to attack the same top 10 guys over and over I allowed my score to drop a ton overnight so I'd have more poeple to fight today.

I have to deliberately lose in order to get enough wins.

so my strategy now for managing scores and wins is to just forfeit matches instead of skipping. just charge in using the loaner and some 1*/2*, make one match and retreat. "Free Skip" with the benefit of lowering your score to keep it at a manageable level for easy targets. You will find your score just kinda floats around 400ish points while you bash 3* rosters all day.

So thanks for removing the skip tax d3, i do like my Iso.

fanghoul

Rod5 said:

fanghoul said:

The downside Orion seems to be trying to present is that now... all the rewards won't flow to one group of players. Instead some will go to different people depending on their preferred goals / play style.

I think I can live with that.

Thank you for your smugness.

Thing is, when you do build your roster to a stronger level and you’re competing against us, you’ll see how short-sighted it is, and how unenjoyable it is to fight huge teams for 40 fights.

in the meantime we’ll drop CLs to get CPs when we don’t want the 4* and deny people there all the other placement rewards as well.

Man, if you're going to wait around for me to rue the day when I don't get enough rewards in this game, I have some bad news for you about the type of gamer I am...

Phumade

aesthetocyst said:

Lucifier said:

... more points in s2, or s5 than before ...

Heh. No. But it was a nice thought.

Amusing when people take their academic knowledge and try to apply it to an arbitrary game scoring.

Objectively you can't apply macro economic or even common sense principles to this game because the indivdual actions of a few can overshadow the collective actions of the many.


Part of the robustness of macro economics is the assumption that the market's "invisible hand" can overpower the actions of a collective few.  But this assumption has been proven as false in the real word as it is in mpq.

Many people and organization can and do exert monopoly power on their respective markets.  (anti trust law is based on these examples).  In the game, shard scoring is better understood as prevalent shard style, and D3 actions have to be considered in that context.

I.e.  It doesn't matter what D3 wants when the 50 most active/powerful rosters  in the shard want to divide up slots in a different form or fashion.