How does you chosen Shield Clearance Level affect PVP?

Rykard
Rykard Posts: 35 Just Dropped In
in MPQ General Discussion
So I know choosing a lower SCL makes PVE easier but what affect does it have on PVP? I've chosen a lower level before and I still seemed to be matched up against the same difficult opponents.

Comments

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    No effect on matchmaking at all.
  • Dormammu
    Dormammu Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    It doesn't affect your opponents. A magical and mysterious thing called 'MMR' still does that. Theoretically, choosing a lower SCL in PvP will allow you to place higher in your bracket because you're not competing for placement against higher-leveled rosters.
  • Beer40
    Beer40 Posts: 826 Critical Contributor
    Bowgentle said:
    No effect on matchmaking at all.
    Which is an absolute shame. I'm not going to complain too much tho, because I haven't put much thought into finding a solution. Its one of those things you would think they had figured out before they rolled out clearance levels in PVP to begin with.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,291 Chairperson of the Boards
    It wont change who you fight against which is determined by other means but most players in lower SCL will presumably have less developed rosters which means they can't score as highly overall. So you should have a better chance at placement rewards. Scores that would get you nowhere in higher SCL are often enough for Top 25 in SCL6 for instance in my experience. YMMV.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,825 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited October 2017
    Of course, lower SCL's award lesser prizes for placement too.  I actually wonder about SCL 9 for PVP, because all that does it make more prizes available to more people.  SCL9 for PVE actually increases challenge for greater rewards, but in PVP it would just make better rewards available to more people with no change in your challenge/difficulty.

    Of course, players are all for it, but I wonder about what developers think.
  • Rykard
    Rykard Posts: 35 Just Dropped In
    I've given up on PVP for the last 4 or 5 seasons. Tell me this, all I want is the green Devil Dino in the Anniversary Season Simulator but I would still like to get some good ISO rewards on the side (you know, because you can never have enough ISO). What should I do? Pick an easier SCL because it will make life easier or just go for the SCL 8 and rake in some ISO during the slog to get Devil Dino?
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,825 Chairperson of the Boards
    Rykard said:
    I've given up on PVP for the last 4 or 5 seasons. Tell me this, all I want is the green Devil Dino in the Anniversary Season Simulator but I would still like to get some good ISO rewards on the side (you know, because you can never have enough ISO). What should I do? Pick an easier SCL because it will make life easier or just go for the SCL 8 and rake in some ISO during the slog to get Devil Dino?
    If you want Dino, in Simulator, it will not matter at all which SCL you pick.  Just do 8 to get more iso etc.

    It will not be any harder or easier.  Who you fight is only determined by your roster / team used and your points.  You are matched to teams of roughly equal strength and score.  It gets a little more complicated at higher scores when the people who score high have better rosters.

    No one, really, should ever - EVER -  choose a lesser SCL for Shield Simulator.  There are no placement prizes, after all.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,291 Chairperson of the Boards

    The first thing you will have to accept is that you will be fighting endless waves of C4rol’s and Medusa with the occasional Bl4de. Then R4G and Gamora for next powered up list. So not going to be easy. At least skip tax is half price.





  • Rykard
    Rykard Posts: 35 Just Dropped In
    DAZ0273 said:

    The first thing you will have to accept is that you will be fighting endless waves of C4rol’s and Medusa with the occasional Bl4de. Then R4G and Gamora for next powered up list. So not going to be easy. At least skip tax is half price.

    Yeah, that's precisely why I haven't played PVP in several seasons. I'm in that transitional period from 4 star to 5 star and it's just way too difficult. I can put so little effort into wringing PVE dry of rewards or I can scruggle to meh rewards out of PVP. 

    Thanks for the advice and the quick replies errybody.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,825 Chairperson of the Boards
    Note that the low point threshold (800) means this cover will be pretty easy to get, and there will be less mirror teams.  The high achievers will blow past that (esp during a boss event) leaving a lot of varied teams around for you to climb on.

    If you have a good stable of 4* champs, PVP isn't bad, esp Simulator.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,291 Chairperson of the Boards
    Rykard said:
    DAZ0273 said:

    The first thing you will have to accept is that you will be fighting endless waves of C4rol’s and Medusa with the occasional Bl4de. Then R4G and Gamora for next powered up list. So not going to be easy. At least skip tax is half price.

    Yeah, that's precisely why I haven't played PVP in several seasons. I'm in that transitional period from 4 star to 5 star and it's just way too difficult. I can put so little effort into wringing PVE dry of rewards or I can scruggle to meh rewards out of PVP. 

    Thanks for the advice and the quick replies errybody.
    Good luck. Getting Lockjaw wasn't too bad last time around for SHIELD Sim with the lower points total as bluewolf says above, hopefully Dino will be same.
  • Beer40
    Beer40 Posts: 826 Critical Contributor
    aesthetocyst said:
    Beer40 said:
    Bowgentle said:
    No effect on matchmaking at all.
    Which is an absolute shame?
    Why it that a shame?
    @aesthetocyst

    The difference in clearance levels should mean something, other than a pittance of ISO/HP at each level. We can't count placement rewards, because those just aren't guaranteed for most. If you can already say, "I'd take this placement in this SCL, or I do this placement every time in this slice at this SCL" then it really doesn't apply and you could probably care less if they made a change at all. Most people place pretty randomly, so using placement isn't a good example, and even if we did, the difference in rewards there is small there too.

    For a good majority of people, I believe the SCL's mean nothing other than, "I'm going to fight the same opponents anyway. I might as well play in the highest SCL". 

    To me, that is lazy design. But, as I said, I don't have what I feel is a workable solution. However, I'm not being paid to find one either...
  • Lucifier
    Lucifier Posts: 244 Tile Toppler
    the OP question was:

    How does you chosen """Shield""" Clearance Level affect PVP?

    answer is no effect at all, 0 effect, as also someone else mentioned before, Shield have no placement rewards. 
    so there is no reason to chose any lower Shield clearance level, everyone should choice the highest available level for them, as it have better rewards.
  • aesthetocyst
    aesthetocyst Posts: 538 Critical Contributor
    Beer40 said:
    aesthetocyst said:
    Beer40 said:
    Bowgentle said:
    No effect on matchmaking at all.
    Which is an absolute shame?
    Why it that a shame?
    @aesthetocyst

    The difference in clearance levels should mean something....
    It does mean something. Your choice of SCL means several things in PvP:

    1.  SCL affects the progression reward scheme.
    2.  SCL affects the placement reward scheme.
    3.  SCL affects placement, as a given score will place higher in lower SCLs and vice/versa.
    4.  SCL determines which bracket you are in; you only compete for placement against others in your SCL.

    No, it doesn't affect your range of opponents. And that's a very good thing. Have you thought through how PvP would play out if it did?

    Presumably you mean you think you should only see opponents who are also in the same SCL? That would be bad, but also have some karmic implications. Or maybe you mean players in a certain SCL should only be offered opponents in a certain range? Now that would be truly awful.

    If you're a player who barely qualifies for the next SCL, you'll have a rough time making that transition. You'll probably delay it, lingering at the lower SCL while you build up. Beating up on weaker players while you do it.

    If you're a stronger player choosing to play in a lower SCL, now we're really talking. Not only are you likely to place higher, now you get to beat up on weaker players while doing so, taking points from them with impunity.

    The difference between PvE and PvP is how direct the competition is. In PvE you're just tying to outrace/outproduce other players, your efforts don't have a direct, negative effect on others. In PvP, they do.

    It is just and right that you see the same opposition no matter which SCL you go with. It's part of the design that encourages you to play at your highest SCL. The reason the system breaks down, the reason players drop down anyway, is because the rewards are not adequately scaled up. Many players can do just as well (or better!) in a lower SCL in less time with fewer shields, thanks to the higher SCLs not paying as well. That's the part that needs correction.

    And not just the rewards at the top. The rewards all the way down. Every progression, every placement, should step up, significantly, from SCL to SCL.
    ________________

    Now, IF your opponents were tied to SCL, there might be some fun results, depending on implementation:

    •  Players slumming might not be able to score very well, due to not being able to q strong, high-scoring players. They'd have to grind it out against low-value targets. (Sad to say, that might not deter many players.)
    •  If MMR stayed the same, but was limited to players actually in your SCL, the slummers would only be able to q each other, over and over again. That'd be karma. But, eventually, those limited targets would shield, and the server would start serving up whatever it could find. See previous point.
    •  Aaaaaaand I forgot my 3rd point. Oh well.

    Ultimately, the point is, your targets in PvP are other players. That's why you shouldn't be able to "choose" a weaker slate of opponents. It's inhumane. PvP is brutal and unwelcoming to new players as-is, don't ask to make it worse.

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