why there is progression rewards till 1200 points in low Level in PVP-VERSUS mode

Lucifier

ok, so this is my case I am thinking of going low in Level (SCL) of PVP-VERSUS events.

for example CAGE MATCH event:

So the progression reward for Level 4 (SCL4) are:

25 points      standard token
50 points      500 iso
100 points    stockpile
200 points    standard token
300 points    standard token
400 points    50 HP
500 points    500 iso
575 points    5 CP
650 points    Heroic token
725 points    50 HP
800 points    standard token
825 points    1200 iso
850 points    special vault token (now it is the defenders token).
900 points    2* cover (now it is magneto 2* cover)    <==================!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1200 points  10 CP

from my understand (and from i read in the forum) no matter which level (SCL) i join, i will face the same difficulty opponent and they will see me too.

for example if i join level 7 PVP i can see a player name A, if i join level 1 PVP i will face player A, and player A can see whether i am in level 7 or in level 1.
that also mean my progression points that i can reach (hit) will be the same no matter what level i join. (please correct me if i am wrong).


So here is the thing, I am still in 3* land (about 15 3* champed) and I accept the fact i can not compete with high roasters players, so i want to drop down in level for better performance.
true i might end up in better placements (although the reward will not be that good), 
but what i can not understand WHY the progression rewards are still to 1200 points.

do you think the 4* land players with many 4* champed or 5* land player with 5* champed will go to level 4?????!!!!!
or do you expect the players in level 4, or EVEN in level 1, can make it to 1200 or 900 or 800 points???????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
why there is progression rewards till 1200 point in LEVEL 1 (SCL1)???

i think at least it should be changed, that max point will not be the same for each level of PVP.
there is 15 rewards till point 1200, i suggest as an example these 15 rewards should be distributed from 25 points to max 400 point in Level 1, to max 550 in level 3, and so on. (or something else should be changed).

am I missing something here?

jamesh

You're not missing anything: having different progression rewards for different clearance levels in PVP doesn't make sense.  The difficulty of meeting each score target is independent of the chosen clearance level, since the pool of enemies you face off against is not partitioned by clearance level (only time slice).

acescracked

You are over thinking it.

They don't want to spend time customizing & tailoring different progression point levels for each SCL.

Story mode has the same progression point levels across SCL's. Why not wonder about that too?

dudethtsawesome

acescracked said:

You are over thinking it.

They don't want to spend time customizing & tailoring different progression point levels for each SCL.

Story mode has the same progression point levels across SCL's. Why not wonder about that too?

 The thing about pve though, you are only going against players in that level AND, you have the same chance of getting top progression as every one else in that slice. 

Xenoberyll

acescracked said:

You are over thinking it.

They don't want to spend time customizing & tailoring different progression point levels for each SCL.

Story mode has the same progression point levels across SCL's. Why not wonder about that too?

They already tailored the progession level rewards. Just not the points requirements to hit them. 

Story mode is completely different because the scaling of your opponents is dependent on SCL. And low level players can actually hit those points if they pick the fitting Clearance Level.

SCL in PVP is important for who you play the season bracket with and for what rewards you can earn. The level of opponents will stay the same as that's just in the matchmaking.

Lucifier

acescracked said:

You are over thinking it.

They don't want to spend time customizing & tailoring different progression point levels for each SCL.

Story mode has the same progression point levels across SCL's. Why not wonder about that too?

In Story Mode you have a chance to get all progression rewards (even if you are missing one essential char, or maybe 2 essential char).
still there is a chance you have like 10 char in your roasters, and it might happened in a certain PVE-Story event that you have the 3 essential char 2*, 3*, 4* (and the lower CL level you enter the lower the enemies level too) so it is doable and possible (even tho you don't need all essential char and in the progression reward you will get some of these essential char, depend in the level you joined).

while in PVP, what do you expect from players who are in Level 2(SCL2) do you think they will hit 800 points???
lets assume a player with few 3* champed and want to play in Level4, to be able to get a 2* cover from progression rewards he/she have to hit 900 points.

Pants1000

acescracked said:

You are over thinking it.

They don't want to spend time customizing & tailoring different progression point levels for each SCL.

Story mode has the same progression point levels across SCL's. Why not wonder about that too?

I think this nailed it.  It's true that very few people in lower CL's will ever hit those progression levels, but from a developer's perspective it's easier and cleaner this way. It's not worth development time to change it.

jamesh

acescracked said:

Story mode has the same progression point levels across SCL's. Why not wonder about that too?

In story mode it is easier to hit the progression targets in lower clearance levels, so they give you lesser rewards.

In versus, it will be equally difficult to hit e.g. 900 points, whether you select CL1 or CL8.  It would make more sense to have a single set of progression rewards shared by all clearance levels, with the types of rewards tailored to the point totals they think people of various roster strengths should be able to achieve.

Lucifier

Pants1000 said:

acescracked said:

You are over thinking it.

They don't want to spend time customizing & tailoring different progression point levels for each SCL.

Story mode has the same progression point levels across SCL's. Why not wonder about that too?

I think this nailed it.  It's true that very few people in lower CL's will ever hit those progression levels, but from a developer's perspective it's easier and cleaner this way. It's not worth development time to change it.

honestly WHAT DEVELOPMENT TIME required for such small change (this kind of change is not the game engine change, not game core change).

nope, nothing nailed anything,
in story mode even in SCL1, you still have chance to get all progression rewards, 

if you don't have one or even 2 of the essential char (you still can get all the progression rewards).
plus within the progression rewards and depending on which SCL(you will get the essential char and in later in same event you can use them to earn more points).

also there is a possibility the low level char can already have a 4* char (i remember at very beginning i got a 4* cover, maybe was from a heroic token or a daily reward), (not to mention they can use real-money to purchase things, that could get you 2*, 3*, or even 4* char).

Plus this is not exactly the point here, for example now i can play in SCL8 (but it might be very difficult for me, and because of that i might not get all progression rewards, unless i spent a lot of effort, still there is a possibility i might not be able to (i did not try it)), but if i drop to CL7, or CL6 or CL4 (i can get all progression rewards)
BUT this is not the case in PVP-VERSUS, even if i go to SCL1 in PVP (the difficulty will be the same, so it make no sense why there are rewards till 1200 points).

my suggestion or idea was for PVP-VERSUS is for low level SCL the maximum points will be lowered to get the progression rewards (for example the 15 rewards in SCL1 will be between 25 points to 400 points).

another idea will be (the progression rewards value will be exactly the same for all SCL from SCL1 to SCL8), because the difficulty is exactly the same in all SCL.
and how many rewards out of these 15 that you can get, will be based on your roaster strength and your play style (plus luck of course).

but the placement rewards should be different because it is easier to score high placement in lower SCL. 

shardwick

It doesn't make sense in the current system for pvp but if/when they go to a win-based system or a dual system (pts/wins) then it will because a lower level player will be able to get those same rewards through progression via wins. I remember when I first started to get into pvp as a 2* player, I was already pretty solid in pve and hitting max progression there, I thought I would do well so one day I went on a run and everyone stomped on my throat when I got around 500. I just thought "How exactly am I supposed to get to 1200 if I'm having this much trouble just getting to 500?"

Lucifier

from my understanding the 1200 is for players with at least 2 good 5* champed (i might be wrong tho).

Phumade

go look at the #11 alliance in cage match.  You'll see'll rosters with level 300 chars hitting 1700

Lucifier

Phumade said:

go look at the #11 alliance in cage match.  You'll see'll rosters with level 300 chars hitting 1700

I don't know about that, it is just what i read in the forum that's why i said i am not sure about it.

#11 alliance have 28794 / 18 members =~ 1600 sure some will be more and some will be less.
but i checked their roaster 16 members have multi 5* champed, only 2 members don't have 5* champed.

so more likely the 16 member are the one who scores the high value, not the 2 members.

can you post a picture here of the 1700 300 level player.

Phumade

LOL just goto the cage match event.

look at he alliance leaderboard, scroll to number 11 and then hit the points.  you will see exactly how each person did

Lucifier

wow i didn't know the points are clickable, thanks for that.
yes i can see a player about level 300 have 1739 WOW

@Phumade  what do you think a player with 3* (about 15 champed) should hit in pvp as an average?

Phumade

with coordination, shields, boosts and a lucky buff week 1200.

No coordination, or buffs 700-900

Lucifier

mmmmmm, once i hit a little over 800 no coordination no shield, but it was shehulk champed and boosted.

the points in one bracket (shard) it is shared by all players within same time slice, right? not just for the 500 players in one bracket (shard).
is that correct?

Huntah86

If CP is always the last reward then making it easier to get in lower SCL levels just ensures tons of higher level players dropping low just to easily get the CP. This would only make things way worse

Rod5

Huntah86 said:

If CP is always the last reward then making it easier to get in lower SCL levels just ensures tons of higher level players dropping low just to easily get the CP. This would only make things way worse

This. The SCL progression rewards are in line with placement rewards. If they improve, stronger players will drop and take all the placement rewards too.

Lucifier

the example i gave to you was for SCL4, and its total CP reward is (5cp +10cp) so total is 15cp, plus there is no 4* cover as rewards not even a 3* cover as a reward.

a player who can hit1200 (why would drop for less rewards), while the player who can not hit 1200 ok they can drop (or maybe not, for better placement reward in higher SCL, or maybe just get 10 cp and 4* cover from progression reward in SCL 7).

and for SCL1 it is 1cp at 575 point and 1 cp at 1200 points (so total is 2 cp), so every player will drop to a point that is good for him/her, dropping much lower than that point you wlll just lose more than what you can gain.

Lucifier

@aesthetocyst

I am not sure if I understood your point, what is your end point in your comment?

anyway, my point is, the current PVP progression system rewards make no sense (for most of SCL levels), and my point was clear, low SCL (or low roaster players) can not dream of 900 or 1200, or even the 725 points, so why does it exists?

my suggestions is either or (not both):
1- progression rewards of SCL8 stays as it is, but it will be global (as in any SCL you joined, the progression rewards will be the same for all players), why is that?
    because no matter what SCL level you join you will face same players (even if they exists in a different SCL).
    so logically you are doing same fights as other are doing, then why you should get less rewards than others.
    * but till this point there is no point of joining different SCL, but there is a point (which is placement rewards /player and / alliance),          which will make player join higher SCL as they can compete in.
     
True if point 1 is implemented you may face many players go one SCL or 2 SCL levels down, (thinking the progression rewards is the same, but i can do much better in placement "i might end top1 or top5", or even top10)
but the reality i doubt will be like this, why, because many players will think this way, not just one or two players, which will create also more competing in like (SCL5 or SCL6), which the players will change their mind in next event and go back to higher SCL (like SCL7), until it reach some kind of stabilizing. and the players will know which SCL is better for them.

2- change the min and max point required for each SCL, for example right now the 15 progression rewards in SCL 8 is between 25 points and 1200 points, this should be changed for SCL1 for example make it between point 25 and 400:
point 25 1st reward
point 50  2nd reward
................
...............
point 400 15th reward

for SCL2 make it between 25 points and 550 points (also just an example 550 could be any other number but not 1200).

some may say players will go down to SCL1, because it is easy to get 400 points, well no they will not go to SCL1 even the 400 is easy to get, but the progression rewards in SCL1 is so low (so bad, i think the best is 2* (maybe not) cover, or 1cp+1cp = 2cp), while you can get 10 cp in SCL7 or SCL8 at 650 point.
so no the players will not go very low in SCL.
and another reason why they will not go very down in SCL is the placement rewards for both player and alliance is better in higher SCL.

lets assume a player with one or two 3* champed, don't you think this players deserve to get the 2* cover (progression reward) easily or mid-difficulty without using shields, well he/she can not because the 2* cover reward in SCL4(as an example) is at 900 point ????????!!!!!!!!!!!!

aesthetocyst said:
requires a cross reference, to the progression #, and the SCL the player selected.

and that it would require a more thorough change to the game's code to accommodate having progression points vary by SCL.

point 1 suggestion is very easy to implement, do not change the game code design, let it have progression rewards per each SCL, just change the content of rewards in each SCL to be exactly the same as of SCL8, so you would have like 8 progression rewards one per each SCL ( but all of them have the same 15 rewards), of course there are other solution for it, but i think this is the easiest to implement.

point 2 suggestion, also not that difficult, you already said currently the game will cross reference the SCL with progression point, well easy (for example);


   if current progression value > max progression player already hit then
  
        if SCL == 1  then
              (cross reference with SCL1 progression triggers point value) (which will have 15 or 14 if statement)
        if SCL == 2  then
              (cross reference with SCL2 progression triggers point value) (which will have 15 or 14 if statement)

and so on......................