Djeru eyes wide open

andrewvanmarle
andrewvanmarle Posts: 978 Critical Contributor
in MtGPQ General Discussion
Why does he have vigilance? 
Its a counter to his power and makes him quite a dud. 

Can he lose vigilance? Id even accept an increase in mana cost... 
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Comments

  • Mainloop25
    Mainloop25 Posts: 1,959 Chairperson of the Boards
    Same problem as Angel of Condemnation 
  • Laeuftbeidir
    Laeuftbeidir Posts: 1,841 Chairperson of the Boards
    Mainloop25 said:
    Same problem as Angel of Condemnation 
    Kind of. The angel has at least some power, and some build-arounds I figured out work nicely with the ability without getting it killed first. Djeru just dies before his ability helps you.
  • ROYGBV00
    ROYGBV00 Posts: 37 Just Dropped In
    ...just use a Prevent Damage card?
  • Mainloop25
    Mainloop25 Posts: 1,959 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'd be curious to know what you did with Angel. I find it either dies before triggering Exert, or if it survives a turn of creatures bashing into it, you didn't really need its ability in the first place.
  • SirFitzalot
    SirFitzalot Posts: 7 Just Dropped In
    My Djeru isn't preventing any dmg. I'm still taking lots and lots and lots.
  • wereotter
    wereotter Posts: 2,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    ROYGBV00 said:
    ...just use a Prevent Damage card?
    But then what's the point of Djeru? He'll prevent damage to you from flying creatures and that's it. The fact that he'll most likely die before he can help you not lose life from being attacked makes his ability largely irrelevant. It'll only save you from afflict and from fliers.
  • Laeuftbeidir
    Laeuftbeidir Posts: 1,841 Chairperson of the Boards
    Mainloop25 said:
    I'd be curious to know what you did with Angel. I find it either dies before triggering Exert, or if it survives a turn of creatures bashing into it, you didn't really need its ability in the first place.
    psssht...I'll tell you in secret. 
    Djeru and the Angel both have the same problem, but different abilities. Sadly, my strategy for the angel will not work with djeru. He's just good for Airforce and Spells
  • hawkyh1
    hawkyh1 Posts: 780 Critical Contributor
    edited July 2017
    wereotter said:
    ROYGBV00 said:
    ...just use a Prevent Damage card?
    But then what's the point of Djeru? He'll prevent damage to you from flying creatures and that's it. The fact that he'll most likely die before he can help you not lose life from being attacked makes his ability largely irrelevant. It'll only save you from afflict and from fliers.

    also from unblockable and maybe menace(including
    some zombie armies). and direct damage.
    (he looks a bit specialist and niche)

    HH
  • Steeme
    Steeme Posts: 784 Critical Contributor
    hawkyh1 said:
    wereotter said:
    ROYGBV00 said:
    ...just use a Prevent Damage card?
    But then what's the point of Djeru? He'll prevent damage to you from flying creatures and that's it. The fact that he'll most likely die before he can help you not lose life from being attacked makes his ability largely irrelevant. It'll only save you from afflict and from fliers.

    also from unblockable and maybe menace(including
    some zombie armies). and direct damage.
    (he looks a bit specialist and niche)

    HH


    Can you not run him with Cartouche of Solidarity?

    Gives him vigilance + first strike.  Buff him +/+ for extra bite.  Anything avoiding him will do no damage.

    At least I thought this was what gave him value.  Worth more in PVE events where your opponents use static decks.

  • andrewvanmarle
    andrewvanmarle Posts: 978 Critical Contributor
    Isnt he, in that case, not just an expensive blocker? 
  • Steeme
    Steeme Posts: 784 Critical Contributor
    andrewvanmarle said:
    Isnt he, in that case, not just an expensive blocker? 

    Show me another creature that reduces all damage by 10.

    It pretty much nullifies Dynavolt tower.

    I'd expect it to be even more valuable in enraged events, with the assumption that the damage is reduced before striking your planeswalker, in which case it prevents up to 20 damage.

  • THEMAGICkMAN
    THEMAGICkMAN Posts: 697 Critical Contributor
    Djeru is quite  q good combo piece. If not right now, in the future. Any effect that would inflict damage on you gets wayyyy better with djeru. Without vigilance he'd likely be too powerful. 
  • andrewvanmarle
    andrewvanmarle Posts: 978 Critical Contributor
    Steeme said:
    andrewvanmarle said:
    Isnt he, in that case, not just an expensive blocker? 

    Show me another creature that reduces all damage by 10.

    It pretty much nullifies Dynavolt tower.

    I'd expect it to be even more valuable in enraged events, with the assumption that the damage is reduced before striking your planeswalker, in which case it prevents up to 20 damage.

    I cant, not even Djeru does that .... 

    Nice that he nullifies dynavolt but 95% of damage is done in this game by creatures. He won't last one turn.... 
  • Steeme
    Steeme Posts: 784 Critical Contributor
    andrewvanmarle said:
    Steeme said:
    andrewvanmarle said:
    Isnt he, in that case, not just an expensive blocker? 

    Show me another creature that reduces all damage by 10.

    It pretty much nullifies Dynavolt tower.

    I'd expect it to be even more valuable in enraged events, with the assumption that the damage is reduced before striking your planeswalker, in which case it prevents up to 20 damage.

    I cant, not even Djeru does that .... 

    Nice that he nullifies dynavolt but 95% of damage is done in this game by creatures. He won't last one turn.... 

    I think you completely missed the point.

    Running him with Cartouche of Solidarity:

    1. He will only die to removal (just like everything else) or if there's a ground pounder with first strike or 7+ toughness

    2. Anything that he doesn't block will be nullified unless they do more than 10 damage.  That includes flyers, unblockable, menace, etc.

    3. Everything else that does damage is nullified unless it does more than 10 damage.


    Are you really complaining that 14 mana is too high a cost for the above benefit?  Or is your general complaint that anything with permanent vigilance in this game is overcosted?

  • bk1234
    bk1234 Posts: 2,924 Chairperson of the Boards
    I would buy him without the vigilance -- even with an increased manna cost. 

    As-is -- it's a pass. 

    I'm bored with this mechanic. 
  • Ohboy
    Ohboy Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    He's basically useful for take <x dmg and win with <x hp objectives. 

    Outside that niche, he's just not good as a generic creature. Like all niche cards. 
  • Mainloop25
    Mainloop25 Posts: 1,959 Chairperson of the Boards
    Yeah maybe if you buff him,  in conjunction with sandwurm convergence, you can do sort of a pseudo lock down with a few other cards that actually lock stuff down. Interesting card for sure, but I don't think I'll pay for him. I don't mind waiting to see if I can pull him in a pack in the future. More useful than depala, ha.
  • andrewvanmarle
    andrewvanmarle Posts: 978 Critical Contributor
    Steeme said:
    andrewvanmarle said:
    Steeme said:
    andrewvanmarle said:
    Isnt he, in that case, not just an expensive blocker? 

    Show me another creature that reduces all damage by 10.

    It pretty much nullifies Dynavolt tower.

    I'd expect it to be even more valuable in enraged events, with the assumption that the damage is reduced before striking your planeswalker, in which case it prevents up to 20 damage.

    I cant, not even Djeru does that .... 

    Nice that he nullifies dynavolt but 95% of damage is done in this game by creatures. He won't last one turn.... 

    I think you completely missed the point.

    Running him with Cartouche of Solidarity:

    1. He will only die to removal (just like everything else) or if there's a ground pounder with first strike or 7+ toughness

    2. Anything that he doesn't block will be nullified unless they do more than 10 damage.  That includes flyers, unblockable, menace, etc.

    3. Everything else that does damage is nullified unless it does more than 10 damage.


    Are you really complaining that 14 mana is too high a cost for the above benefit?  Or is your general complaint that anything with permanent vigilance in this game is overcosted?

    He doesnt reduce combat damage. So any 4/5 creature will just kill him
    As a 3/4  blocker he IS over costed. [compared to for instance the 12/12 colorless gearhulk. 

    Remove the vigilance and he's costed just right

  • andrewvanmarle
    andrewvanmarle Posts: 978 Critical Contributor
    By the way i get your idea to combo him, but your caculation is off. 

    It's two  cards and 23 mana, and that is a big big difference
  • Steeme
    Steeme Posts: 784 Critical Contributor

    andrewvanmarle said:
    By the way i get your idea to combo him, but your caculation is off. 

    It's two  cards and 23 mana, and that is a big big difference


    No, the calculation isn't off.  If you're running the Cartouche, then you're already running it with other Vigilance creatures.  You're not going to be successful if you rely on a single creature.  For example you could have the Angel of Invention in the same deck.

    andrewvanmarle said:
    He doesnt reduce combat damage. So any 4/5 creature will just kill him
    As a 3/4  blocker he IS over costed. [compared to for instance the 12/12 colorless gearhulk. 

    Remove the vigilance and he's costed just right

    Now your calculation is off.  We're talking about running him in a deck with the Cartouche.  Obviously you would play the Cartouche first, giving him 6 power.  That's why I said the opposing creature needs 7+ toughness.

    He is 4/3 base (not 3/4, that would be silly)

    Cartouche makes him 6/5 with first strike


    Regardless, if you can't see a use for him, that's fine.  Others will.  I have already built decks around the Cartouche, and he would only make them stronger.


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